Where does Albert Pujols rank among all-time greats?

Perennial

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Jun 27, 2020
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Pete Rose literally bet on baseball outcomes as a player and a manager - which has legally been a lifetime ban from baseball and ethically bankrupt. Pujols is a better player and a better man than Rose.

And you really want to go down the slippery slope that "defrauding an MLB team should come with a lifetime ban"? So all of the Latin American players (who are teens/very young adults, for clarification - people don't make very smart decisions then. I know I didn't.) who use different names on their birth certificates for various reasons (Carlos Martinez comes to mind as one such example, and he didn't lie; he had his contract with the Red Sox voided because of a difference in his family name - and I'm sure he's not the only player who had those kinds of issues) get banned from baseball for good?

I get that Pujols didn't have his best years with the Angels (I'm assuming you're a Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim fan?), but you need to channel your inner Elsa and let it go. You still have Trout, and Pujols is almost at the end of his contract. So I honestly don't understand why you're so up-in-arms, calling him worse than Rose, saying he should be banned from baseball for something that has literally been happening for decades.

I don't see any issue with a manager or player betting on their team to win the game, and neither does the legal system... yes, it violates the rules of MLB, but it's not a criminal offense

As long as they don't bet against their own team, there's no victim involved...

If Pujols lied about his age during contract negotiations, he committed fraud, and the Angels would then be the victim of that fraud

I'm not "up-in-arms" about it, I'm pointing out the severity of that act from both a legal and ethical standpoint...

We're not talking about an 18 year old who got caught in a bar with a fake ID...

We're talking about an already wealthy grown man committing fraud in order to secure himself a contract worth hundreds of millions of dollars

The fact that the Angels still have Trout, or that other Latin players have lied about their age in the past is completely irrelevant

If Pujols did lie about his age, it absolutely should come with a lifetime ban from baseball... and if that's the only punishment he received, I think he would be getting off easy

And, no, I'm not an Angels fan...
 

Memento

Future Authoress.
Sep 12, 2011
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St. Louis, Missouri
I don't see any issue with a manager or player betting on their team to win the game, and neither does the legal system... yes, it violates the rules of MLB, but it's not a criminal offense

As long as they don't bet against their own team, there's no victim involved...

If Pujols lied about his age during contract negotiations, he committed fraud, and the Angels would then be the victim of that fraud

I'm not "up-in-arms" about it, I'm pointing out the severity of that act from both a legal and ethical standpoint...

We're not talking about an 18 year old who got caught in a bar with a fake ID...

We're talking about an already wealthy grown man committing fraud in order to secure himself a contract worth hundreds of millions of dollars

The fact that the Angels still have Trout, or that other Latin players have lied about their age in the past is completely irrelevant

If Pujols did lie about his age, it absolutely should come with a lifetime ban from baseball... and if that's the only punishment he received, I think he would be getting off easy

And, no, I'm not an Angels fan...

Betting as a whole cheats the game. It doesn't matter if they bet on their team or the other; it's something that has the potential for fixing games, which is illegal. That's why Rose, Jackson, and the rest of the Black Sox were banned. I'm pretty sure there's someone recent (a Marlins' pitcher, if I recall) who bet on games, and he faced a lifetime ban.

I don't think you understand fraud. If fraud is what you say it is, then every Latin American prospect who lied about their age, or had a birth certificate screwed up would be "guilty of fraud" and, in your words, "should come with a lifetime ban from baseball". Do you have any idea how absolutely draconian those terms are?

It's completely relevant because you basically described Pujols at the start of his career: a young man who had to earn all the money he made, because he was drafted in the thirteenth round. He had ten thousand dollars in that contract at most. He earned his wages fair and square. Judging by what the GM is saying, every team (including the Angels) knew the risk with a contract - a contract that was regarded as a risk even not knowing what his age was - and they took it. They got burned, especially if they knew what they knew.

I don't give a damn if Pujols lied about his age. It hurt nobody. I have no sympathy for the Angels; just because the team gives out a bad contract does not mean that the player should be banned from baseball and - in your words - "if that's the only punishment he received, I think he would be getting off easy". You are leaping right off the slippery slope with what you're saying. You want to bring in prison time for this? This is nothing compared to what has happened in baseball in the past two decades alone. This is nothing compared to the Steroid era, the Astros/Red Sox scandal, the Braves cutting corners in the international market, the Cardinals GM hacking into the Astros' system.

And since you're not an Angels fan, I have no idea why you're choosing to die on this hill.
 
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Quid Pro Clowe

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Dec 28, 2008
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Betting as a whole cheats the game. It doesn't matter if they bet on their team or the other; it's something that has the potential for fixing games, which is illegal. That's why Rose, Jackson, and the rest of the Black Sox were banned. I'm pretty sure there's someone recent (a Marlins' pitcher, if I recall) who bet on games, and he faced a lifetime ban.

I don't think you understand fraud. If fraud is what you say it is, then every Latin American prospect who lied about their age, or had a birth certificate screwed up would be "guilty of fraud" and, in your words, "should come with a lifetime ban from baseball". Do you have any idea how absolutely draconian those terms are?

It's completely relevant because you basically described Pujols at the start of his career: a young man who had to earn all the money he made, because he was drafted in the thirteenth round. He had ten thousand dollars in that contract at most. He earned his wages fair and square. Judging by what the GM is saying, every team (including the Angels) knew the risk with a contract - a contract that was regarded as a risk even not knowing what his age was - and they took it. They got burned, especially if they knew what they knew.

I don't give a damn if Pujols lied about his age. It hurt nobody. I have no sympathy for the Angels; just because the team gives out a bad contract does not mean that the player should be banned from baseball and - in your words - "if that's the only punishment he received, I think he would be getting off easy". You are leaping right off the slippery slope with what you're saying. You want to bring in prison time for this? This is nothing compared to what has happened in baseball in the past two decades alone. This is nothing compared to the Steroid era, the Astros/Red Sox scandal, the Braves cutting corners in the international market, the Cardinals GM hacking into the Astros' system.

And since you're not an Angels fan, I have no idea why you're choosing to die on this hill.
Marlins pitcher fined for illegal sports betting

They could never prove Cozart bet on baseball, but he certainly did in other sports.
 
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