Where do you think Mario got inspiration for his style of play?

Big Phil

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By the way, the classic line from Lemieux when asked about his off-season training regimen was "Not ordering the fries with my sandwich." I can't say that without laughing. That's a riot.

Who else has been so effortless in other sports? Joe DiMaggio comes to mind. Joe Montana. Kareem perhaps?
 

Nick Hansen

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By the way, the classic line from Lemieux when asked about his off-season training regimen was "Not ordering the fries with my sandwich." I can't say that without laughing. That's a riot.

Who else has been so effortless in other sports? Joe DiMaggio comes to mind. Joe Montana. Kareem perhaps?

Messi eating pizza and having a soda afterwards:

'Before, he ate at the club and rested after,' Rexach said. 'But I think last year Messi ate more pizza than he should have.'
Earlier this season the post-match meal preferences of Messi and his team-mates was revealed by by Spanish newspaper Libertad Digital who leaked a copy of the club's menu sheet before their draw against Malaga in September.
And the Argentine superstar opted for a Sprite to wash down his cheese pizza after struggling to inspire his side in the 0-0 draw on the Costa del Sol.

Lionel Messi was eating too much pizza last season at Barcelona, says sporting director Carles Rexach | Daily Mail Online
 
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Canadiens1958

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Yeah perhaps so. He just took it up a notch. I know people on here have talked about cradling the puck and such but he was the first guy I saw doing it regularly in an NHL game, we aren't just talking about Pee Wee here. He would do that to deke around a defenseman and to protect the puck. I just never saw someone do that until him. Not in the NHL.

First, presuming you can actually recognize cradling the puck and derivative moves that are inherent to hockey. Killion provided an excellent description up thread.

Had to privilege of watching Mario Lemieux develop from his early youth hockey days. Hurricanes were the main rivals of CDJR in our district.

Mario Lemieux grew quickly, big kid for his age. But he was athletic, loose and smooth, never one of the youngsters whose motor skills have to grow into his body. He had outstanding dexterity which allowed him extra mobility when selling his moves and fakes.

This is what you saw in the NHL as well when he was approaching the extremes of the range of a move.
 

The Panther

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Just for fun, highlights of games from Mario's rookie season in Pittsburgh:

vs, Canadiens, Oct. 13th, 1984 (this is Mario's 2nd NHL game and Chris Chelios's 14th):


vs. Islanders, Nov. 17th 1984:


vs. Oilers, Jan. 12th 1985:
 

Jim MacDonald

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Beliveau documentary. Always thought that goal he scored at 12:25 was classic Beliveau. So yeah, he looked like Mario to an extent in the effortless, skilled, graceful type of way.




Thank you Big Phil! I will give this my undivided attention at some point and watch! *hockey head swabs*
 

BenchBrawl

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Isn't part of being the greatest also that you create new things? I'm sure if you took at Mario's whole hockey life, including all the training down to the times he was on an outside rink by himself or with a friend or brother, he was creating new moves nonestop.Once you reach a certain level of stickhandling prowess you attempt this, even among good amateurs.

Once you get to a certain mastery threshold, it's not even about being capable of executing X or Y moves anymore, but about having a core of options that is basically unlimited, with a few favorite tricks (those that are more registered in your subconscious/muscle-memory as working a lot).But in any situation, you can improvise a new move that is the perfect one for said situation, because you master the overall art so damn well already.
 

Canadiens1958

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Isn't part of being the greatest also that you create new things? I'm sure if you took at Mario's whole hockey life, including all the training down to the times he was on an outside rink by himself or with a friend or brother, he was creating new moves nonestop.Once you reach a certain level of stickhandling prowess you attempt this, even among good amateurs.

Once you get to a certain mastery threshold, it's not even about being capable of executing X or Y moves anymore, but about having a core of options that is basically unlimited, with a few favorite tricks (those that are more registered in your subconscious/muscle-memory as working a lot).But in any situation, you can improvise a new move that is the perfect one for said situation, because you master the overall art so damn well already.

Definitely. Include the growth and development of a confidence and security perimeter. The radius in which the player knows that he can control and execute the move at an elite level. Stretching and contracting the space given game circumstances.
 
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Big Phil

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First, presuming you can actually recognize cradling the puck and derivative moves that are inherent to hockey. Killion provided an excellent description up thread.

Had to privilege of watching Mario Lemieux develop from his early youth hockey days. Hurricanes were the main rivals of CDJR in our district.

Mario Lemieux grew quickly, big kid for his age. But he was athletic, loose and smooth, never one of the youngsters whose motor skills have to grow into his body. He had outstanding dexterity which allowed him extra mobility when selling his moves and fakes.

This is what you saw in the NHL as well when he was approaching the extremes of the range of a move.

I am not saying he didn't make things better, or even try new things himself. I am saying that who did you see do the cradle with the puck in the fluid motion as he is passing a defender like Lemieux? I'd show you a highlight of it, but if you saw Lemieux's career you can probably pick a dozen ones without even thinking of him doing that.

I never saw someone do that so effortlessly and with so much regularity until Lemieux. No one walked around defenseman like they were pylons quite like him.
 

Killion

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I am not saying he didn't make things better, or even try new things himself. I am saying that who did you see do the cradle with the puck in the fluid motion as he is passing a defender like Lemieux? I'd show you a highlight of it, but if you saw Lemieux's career you can probably pick a dozen ones without even thinking of him doing that.

I never saw someone do that so effortlessly and with so much regularity until Lemieux. No one walked around defenseman like they were pylons quite like him.

I'm not entirely sure what it is your referring to without some clips Phil, and you may be talking about something else entirely, some other move that he executed that one could reasonably lay claim to or attribute as "a Patented Mario Lemieux move"?..... Could it be that because of his size & reach you were sort of "extra impressed" with his ability to do that? Because sure, absolutely, it was unusual for so big a guy to have hands like that, the ability to cradle a puck like it was attached to a silk string to his blade, glued to it. Generally you'd only see that with the smaller, craftier, fancy dangle types however, not entirely rare to also see with the bigger guys, even some of the Power Forwards including any number of 2 way Defensive Forwards actually.

Its a skill that many elite players possess, Puck Mastery 101, it really is part of the tool box though one that sadly seems to have been discarded somewhat. You can see many many examples of it throughout the history of the game. Howe with his patented one arm telescoping of his stick while holding off a checker with the other, cradling the puck on his backhand but on his forehand, weaving in on the goalie then roofing it. Jean Beliveau. Stan Mikita. Bobby Orr. Guy Lafluer & Gilbert Perrault. Gretzky... Yzerman. Datsyuk.... When were young & begin playing, manipulating the puck or ball during free-time, cradling the puck an art that like shooting & dekes worked on extensively, very enjoyable pastime, building confidence in the player, then when put into practice in-game successfully even more so, pushing the limits of ones skills in that art/craft even further. You watch a Lacrosse player freely cradling a ball, shinny players on a pond, a lot of puck cradling going on. Hockey version of Hacky Sack.

Puck carrying & those skills, arts & crafts like cradling, curling, using the boards etc is unfortunately discouraged in this day & age but absolutely, not 10-15-20 & certainly 30-50yrs ago we saw lots of it. I can tell you for sure cradling a beyond common occurrence and something goalies constantly faced from players coming in deep. Goalies were taught (or learned through error) to read the lay of the puck on the shooters stick on the forehand, where the puck was resting on the blade when players started getting really fancy, wrapping, curling, cradling, sliding it to the backhand momentarily & cradling some more or whatever.... like in a Shell Game, Slight of Hand Magic Trick.... miscues, hiding the puck, holding it & cradling the puck in an attempt to make you the goalie make the mistake of making the first move & committing yourself to what you think he's going to try on, what shot selection, what kind of a deke to the back or forehand & so on..... and yes, most certainly, Lemieux a regular Houdini in that regard.... and ya, I do see this modern era of BF Goalies falling for those once so obvious tricks, shooter cradling or just waiting..........holding the puck and stopping time, much to my disgust. Goalie committing early, down & out, badly embarrassed.
 
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Jim MacDonald

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Beliveau documentary. Always thought that goal he scored at 12:25 was classic Beliveau. So yeah, he looked like Mario to an extent in the effortless, skilled, graceful type of way.




Phil, I know your OP was about Lemieux, thank you though for taking the quick sec to post that video on Beliveau, I just got done watching it and enjoyed it SO much! That channel/program that developed that.....it was sooo good! And to have contemporaries speak on his play, Lindsay, Howe etc. that was so good! I wish that show/channel was part of my cable tv subscription....I don't know if I'd ever go to work/leave my house!
 

VanIslander

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UH,... if you are a big guy with great hands, just keep your head down and bowl kids over...

It's the regrettable recipe for Lemieux and Lindros to become concussion-prone NHLers, where a smaller Kasparaitis and Peca can CLEAN YOUR CLOCK if you don't keep your head up!

I don't get the "inspiration" part of this thread.... Gretz's small size served him well dodging bigger guys throughout juniors, honing his spidey sense....
 

Big Phil

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Phil, I know your OP was about Lemieux, thank you though for taking the quick sec to post that video on Beliveau, I just got done watching it and enjoyed it SO much! That channel/program that developed that.....it was sooo good! And to have contemporaries speak on his play, Lindsay, Howe etc. that was so good! I wish that show/channel was part of my cable tv subscription....I don't know if I'd ever go to work/leave my house!

He's probably the best example, pre-Mario, or maybe even post-Mario, that came closest to his style
 

Big Phil

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I'm not entirely sure what it is your referring to without some clips Phil, and you may be talking about something else entirely, some other move that he executed that one could reasonably lay claim to or attribute as "a Patented Mario Lemieux move"?..... Could it be that because of his size & reach you were sort of "extra impressed" with his ability to do that? Because sure, absolutely, it was unusual for so big a guy to have hands like that, the ability to cradle a puck like it was attached to a silk string to his blade, glued to it. Generally you'd only see that with the smaller, craftier, fancy dangle types however, not entirely rare to also see with the bigger guys, even some of the Power Forwards including any number of 2 way Defensive Forwards actually.

We saw it a million times from him. That is like asking to see Messier's patented goal (watch his 500th to see what it looked like) of him coming down the off wing.

Okay, watch this.................one of the goals is at 1:10


This is just an example. We saw him do this a lot with just a little flick of the wrist. To me this is one of many things Mario made famous.
 

The Panther

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My favorite Mario goal -- and one of my favorites, ever -- is one of two he scored against Boston on April 3rd, 1994. This is the season he played only 22 games, but he came back near the end to help out. The goal appears at 1:30 of this list of his top-10 (pre-first retirement):


Mario gets the puck, and D-man Glen Wesley (who was quite a good player) does sort-of a fly-by, like he was trying to stick-check Mario (good luck with that!). Lemieux then takes one giant stride towards the goal, and Wesley, realizing he's beaten, tries the 'can-opener' stick check to pull Lemieux back, which is futile as Mario is too big and strong. Still, it should be no danger as Mario has surely moved in too close on goaltender Jon Casey, who would normally make a save from this close in. But, this is Mario. From 4 feet in front of the net, in a standing position, with Wesley draped around him and hooking him, Mario simply wrists the puck into the top corner, short-side. Casey is left standing there, thinking, "What the hell just happened...?"

Love it.

I have never seen another hockey player who could score a goal like that. To score that goal, you need (a) Mario's size and strength (rules out 85% of players), (b) Mario's finesse and puck-control (rules out 98% of players), and (c) Mario's ability -- standing still! -- to wire a puck top corner (rules out the 1 or 2 guys left at this point). That is unbelievable individual skill.
 

Killion

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^^^ Made that look easy. Didnt panic at all. Very casual about it. Hell of a shot. Goalies worst nightmare.
 

Canadiens1958

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We saw it a million times from him. That is like asking to see Messier's patented goal (watch his 500th to see what it looked like) of him coming down the off wing.

Okay, watch this.................one of the goals is at 1:10


This is just an example. We saw him do this a lot with just a little flick of the wrist. To me this is one of many things Mario made famous.


Well......let's look at a player almost a foot shorter than Mario Lemieux. Henri Richard, 1971 SC finals, game 7,cup winning goal starting at the 2:50 mark.

Cradling to get around Magnusson, smaller but uses his body as a shield and his arm to protect the puck,followed by a beautiful against the flow flip of the puck to score:



Only thing missing was the Richardian knee chop.

Lemieux did many things that by his time had gone out of fashion. Mainly because he was the last to play a long shift game. Lemieux knew how to work and manage a shift. He used his body to shield the puck while telescoping the stick with his power arm. Extended the perimeter of puck control with his size and dexterity, thereby widening passing and shooting lanes.

None of this was new, although he did it better than most and because of his size and reach it was harder to defend for smaller defenders since he could play keep away simply by applying his reach advantage.
 
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Killion

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^^^ Ya thats a decent example.... a little more ragged than Mario who had some serious grace going on between his head, hands, stick & skates, more pronounced as he was considerably larger than Henri but ya, cradling & Esposito beaten badly, couldnt get a read on it & for a proponent of the BF he should have had that had he fallen into the BF properly rather than doing what he did... We saw bigger guys from earlier era's cradling the puck, Schmidt, Howe, Bathgate, Beliveau etc etc etc, just about every player right on down to elite amateur doing it to varying degree's including Defencemen..... Also.... I'd forgotten about that amazing shot by Lemaire... 75 footer right past the erratic Esposito. Thing of beauty... never a huge Tony 0 fan... couldnt have happened to a nicer guy. :naughty:

EDIT to ADD: One thing I have noted is that there seems to be confusion generationally as to what "cradling the puck" actually means, constitutes. Over the past 15yrs or so weve seen some incredible goals, called back & subsequently outlawed whereby the shooter will actually carry the puck & "cradle" it on the blade off the ice.... using their stick like a lacrosse stick absent the pocket of course.... balancing the puck on the heel of the blade anywhere from a foot to waist height or even higher... cradling the puck & then either directly "flinging" it at the net or gently depositing it in behind the goalie.... lifting it off the blade & while airborne bating it into the net or passing it airborne to another forward who then bats it into the net. This too is referred to as cradling as in order to keep the puck on your stick it requires that you move it from side-side to keep it balanced as you move, inertia, gravity, rocking it, like rocking the cradle. Totally illegal of course but called "cradling". If there was ever an equivalent in hockey to the Harlem Globetrotters of basketball then I'm sure that move & others would be legal in Exhibition Matches vs NHL, KHL, minor pro, Junior & NCAA teams, whomever such a squad would play. :laugh:
 
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Big Phil

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Well......let's look at a player almost a foot shorter than Mario Lemieux. Henri Richard, 1971 SC finals, game 7,cup winning goal starting at the 2:50 mark.

Cradling to get around Magnusson, smaller but uses his body as a shield and his arm to protect the puck,followed by a beautiful against the flow flip of the puck to score:



Only thing missing was the Richardian knee chop.

Lemieux did many things that by his time had gone out of fashion. Mainly because he was the last to play a long shift game. Lemieux knew how to work and manage a shift. He used his body to shield the puck while telescoping the stick with his power arm. Extended the perimeter of puck control with his size and dexterity, thereby widening passing and shooting lanes.

None of this was new, although he did it better than most and because of his size and reach it was harder to defend for smaller defenders since he could play keep away simply by applying his reach advantage.


Mario did that move a lot too where he used his body as a shield, spread his legs open and protected the puck. However, that is not the move I am talking about at all. Why is it so hard to admit that Mario did a move no one else did before him?
 

Killion

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Mario did that move a lot too where he used his body as a shield, spread his legs open and protected the puck. However, that is not the move I am talking about at all. Why is it so hard to admit that Mario did a move no one else did before him?

... :laugh: Phil why you stuck on this? I'm telling you flat out that he did not invent that move but absolutely he did it better than possibly anyone before or since in certain situations, appearing to do so in either slo-motion or so quickly that you had to see the replay to figure out what he did..... like in the clip above... did you note how he actually cradled it off his blade to his toe, then in the blink of an eye back to his stick again?... And ya Ive seen that move before too but only by the very best of the best players. Professors of Puck Mastery. Some having PHD's in that discipline from elite amateur on, like from Bantam or Minor Midget. Mario, Gretzky, they probably had it from Atom, Pee Wee at the latest & as they matured, confidence growing, really started pushing the envelope. Able to at will freeze time or speed it up but the moves themselves, nothing new under the sun in that regard. Its that quality, the ability to slow down or speed up a play, a game that makes it appear that their doing something never seen before and they make it look easy. Like their playing with children. In a league of their own. You only saw that with Orr, Gretzky & Lemieux. You see flashes of it sometimes with plenty of others.
 

Canadiens1958

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... :laugh: Phil why you stuck on this? I'm telling you flat out that he did not invent that move but absolutely he did it better than possibly anyone before or since in certain situations, appearing to do so in either slo-motion or so quickly that you had to see the replay to figure out what he did..... like in the clip above... did you note how he actually cradled it off his blade to his toe, then in the blink of an eye back to his stick again?... And ya Ive seen that move before too but only by the very best of the best players. Professors of Puck Mastery. Some having PHD's in that discipline from elite amateur on, like from Bantam or Minor Midget. Mario, Gretzky, they probably had it from Atom, Pee Wee at the latest & as they matured, confidence growing, really started pushing the envelope. Able to at will freeze time or speed it up but the moves themselves, nothing new under the sun in that regard. Its that quality, the ability to slow down or speed up a play, a game that makes it appear that their doing something never seen before and they make it look easy. Like their playing with children. In a league of their own. You only saw that with Orr, Gretzky & Lemieux. You see flashes of it sometimes with plenty of others.

More cameras and better camera positioning at the games favour the Lemieux era since they tend to zoom in and show the intricate hand and stickwork. The moves themselves go back many generations.

Similar to the origins of the slapshop who some claimstarted with Bernie Geoffrion but go back to the early NHL days with Babe Dye.
 
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Killion

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More cameras and better camera positioning at the games favour the Lemieux era since they tend to zoom in and show the intricate hand and stickwork. The moves themselves go back many generations.

Similar to the origins of the slapshop who some claimstarted with Bernie Geoffrion but go back to the early NHL days with Babe Dye.

Indeed, the oft forgotten Cecil Babe Dye. Ranks 4th in games to goals ratio behind only Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux & Cy Denneny, one of the first players to use a curved stick.... some 40yrs before Stan Mikita's so called "discovery" of that supposed "first ever" innovation.... See, you go back, know your history, very little actually new under the sun.. just not recorded or trumpeted quite so loudly in earlier eras' be it an equipment innovation, any number of "moves" or styles of play.... whatever.....

Interesting phenomena.... often bizarre.... as strange as that unknown to the movie going public at large.... fact is Clint Eastwood was allergic to horses. True. Dude mustve been suffering somethin awful so its no wonder he was squinting all the time... could barely breathe, holding back the tears... but he's like the ultimate Badass... Man With No Name.. Psycho Killer.... made it, became famous all because of an allergy. Who knew? Pays to do your research. Know your stuff.... ok.... more than that, he could act a bit I grant ye', but barely, pretty stiff, one dimensional like Cecil on the ice up there... and Sergio Leone' casting him in those early roles, that helped.... but the :squint: ..... thats what really put Clint over the hedge..... mebbe I digress some?.... look, as Tommy Lee Jones said in No Country for Old Men... "you get older, mind wanders sometimes".... point in there somewhere... sometimes no point at all, just senseless... Carry on...
 
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Big Phil

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... :laugh: Phil why you stuck on this? I'm telling you flat out that he did not invent that move but absolutely he did it better than possibly anyone before or since in certain situations, appearing to do so in either slo-motion or so quickly that you had to see the replay to figure out what he did..... like in the clip above... did you note how he actually cradled it off his blade to his toe, then in the blink of an eye back to his stick again?... And ya Ive seen that move before too but only by the very best of the best players. Professors of Puck Mastery. Some having PHD's in that discipline from elite amateur on, like from Bantam or Minor Midget. Mario, Gretzky, they probably had it from Atom, Pee Wee at the latest & as they matured, confidence growing, really started pushing the envelope. Able to at will freeze time or speed it up but the moves themselves, nothing new under the sun in that regard. Its that quality, the ability to slow down or speed up a play, a game that makes it appear that their doing something never seen before and they make it look easy. Like their playing with children. In a league of their own. You only saw that with Orr, Gretzky & Lemieux. You see flashes of it sometimes with plenty of others.

No one before him did that with the regularity of Lemieux, or the perfection or effortlessness. I already mentioned there will be an odd clip you can find of someone doing something similar but no one did it like Mario before or since. I am talking about the NHL level, I am not here to discuss what a kid did in PeeWee either. Any way, I wasn't going to get in such great detail over it, it was just a personal observation.
 

Killion

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No one before him did that with the regularity of Lemieux, or the perfection or effortlessness. I already mentioned there will be an odd clip you can find of someone doing something similar but no one did it like Mario before or since. I am talking about the NHL level, I am not here to discuss what a kid did in PeeWee either. Any way, I wasn't going to get in such great detail over it, it was just a personal observation.

I'm very interested in discussing "what a kid did in Pee Wee" if that kid is a Bobby Orr, a Wayne Gretzky or a Mario Lemieux. Any prodigy really who develops, then blossoms into one of the greatest players ever including but not limited to not just the aforementioned but so too the likes of a Cyclone Taylor, Howie Morenz, Eddie Shore.... Valeri Kharlamov, Borje Salming, Nik Lidstrom etc etc etc. Understanding a players background & foundations are I believe extremely important, educative, edifying, enlightening, entertaining.... and I come here for all of those things & more. Not just the Superstars & Stars, the Journeyman, the Enforcers, the Goaltenders, Minor Leaguers & International Players, Coaches, Scouts & GM's, Owners, Officials & Executives.... Absolute Hoover Vacuum when it comes to that kind of stuff. Thats what this Board is all about Phil. The History of Hockey. Every player has a history before they made it to the pro's & that history when salient, when relevant, if someones interested will be entertained & discussed here. I think you already know all of this, why you love the Board, wouldnt want it any other way. ;)
 
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Canadiens1958

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I am not saying he didn't make things better, or even try new things himself. I am saying that who did you see do the cradle with the puck in the fluid motion as he is passing a defender like Lemieux? I'd show you a highlight of it, but if you saw Lemieux's career you can probably pick a dozen ones without even thinking of him doing that.

I never saw someone do that so effortlessly and with so much regularity until Lemieux. No one walked around defenseman like they were pylons quite like him.

Here you go from 1967 Henri Richard playing against Bobby Orr.
1967HRichardOrr.jpg

Then 1971 again against Orr starting at the 4:00 mark.



Then 1971 SCF game 7 beating Magnusson posted previously
 
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