Where are the Sedins right now?

[Overfleas]

Have we got some sort of calibration regarding the OP’s question? Does, say 50% equal a bottom-six Sedin or how good they were when they had just turned 14?

Certainly they’ve looked better in the first half the last three seasons, than they did down the stretch each year. 2014/15 gives reason to hope they can both get through a whole season playing excellent 70+ point hockey but to do that again would probably take good luck in avoiding injuries, rather than failure to do so being caused by bad luck.

If I were to say at 65-70% of their peak they’d be out of the NHL, then I’d say when well rested they look probably about 95% of what they were. But it just doesn’t seem to last as the games add up and they steadily decline through the year to around 80%. Half a year as a good top line and half a year at a second line level is what we have seen and I would be very happy to get again. If the team had a D-man with a threatening shot, the ability to pass and a decent brain they’d likely pick up another 10 points on the power play each over a full season but that’s not going to happen.

Fatigue and their lack of speed will catch up with eventually but for the time being they’re doing an amazing job carrying our team as the only legitimate threat to the opposition.

 

[biturbo19]

Ya, part of the Sedins' decline from "peak" can also be attributed to the team's decline from peak. In other words, put the 2009-11 Sedins on this current roster today and what do you have? Definitely not 112pt Hart Trophy winning Hank or 104pt Daniel. On the 2015-16 team - and this is just a guess - I would put both of them around the 80-85 point mark, tops. Lack of support, decline of their mainstay winger, and general decline in scoring across the NHL would drop them each 20-30 points IMO.

So where are Sedins *in isolation* compared to 5 years ago? Probably 80-90%. Not the same but not that far down either. Main source of decline is mainly (IMO) a less talented team around them (esp impacts them as they are both playmakers more than finishers) and a decline across the league in scoring.

It's probably a bad suggestion, but i really do still wonder what the Sedins could do with Ehrhoff back here for a year. He's clearly not the player he once was either...but the chemistry he had with the Twins was pretty magic. It was the best years of both Hoff and the Twins careers, working together.


Hard to see where you'd really fit him in here now though. Youth heavy is where it's headed...

 

[RobertKron]

It's probably a bad suggestion, but i really do still wonder what the Sedins could do with Ehrhoff back here for a year. He's clearly not the player he once was either...but the chemistry he had with the Twins was pretty magic. It was the best years of both Hoff and the Twins careers, working together.


Hard to see where you'd really fit him in here now though. Youth heavy is where it's headed...

A lot of that was also Vigneault.

Edit: Moreover, I'd suggest that the management-down mindset of the organization at the time also played a supporting role that would likely be absent today.

 

[VanJack]

Have we got some sort of calibration regarding the OP’s question? Does, say 50% equal a bottom-six Sedin or how good they were when they had just turned 14?

Certainly they’ve looked better in the first half the last three seasons, than they did down the stretch each year. 2014/15 gives reason to hope they can both get through a whole season playing excellent 70+ point hockey but to do that again would probably take good luck in avoiding injuries, rather than failure to do so being caused by bad luck.

If I were to say at 65-70% of their peak they’d be out of the NHL, then I’d say when well rested they look probably about 95% of what they were. But it just doesn’t seem to last as the games add up and they steadily decline through the year to around 80%. Half a year as a good top line and half a year at a second line level is what we have seen and I would be very happy to get again. If the team had a D-man with a threatening shot, the ability to pass and a decent brain they’d likely pick up another 10 points on the power play each over a full season but that’s not going to happen.

Fatigue and their lack of speed will catch up with eventually but for the time being they’re doing an amazing job carrying our team as the only legitimate threat to the opposition.

Actually, the way the Sedins play the game they could still be great contributors for three more seasons imo....but both Daniel and Henrik haven't been 100 percent physically for the past 2-3 seasons, which makes their contributions even more remarkable....and it'll likely be injuries and wear and tear that shortens their careers...but when they leave, that's when the Canucks really bottom out.

 

[Hammer79]

Eriksson will help, no doubt, but if this team doesn't get secondary scoring we shouldn't expect the top line to jump in production. Eriksson will probably start on the first line and will later get shuffled down to the 2nd to spread the scoring through the lineup.

 

[Bougieman]

Eriksson will help, no doubt, but if this team doesn't get secondary scoring we shouldn't expect the top line to jump in production. Eriksson will probably start on the first line and will later get shuffled down to the 2nd to spread the scoring through the lineup.

Precisely. That secondary scoring is going to be VITAL to the Sedin's success this year. If the second (and/or third) line can make other teams worry even a little (which they did NOT last year), then it opens the gate for Daniel and Henrik in a way they haven't enjoyed in a while around here.

Unfortunately, unless some younger player makes an unexpected and utterly herculean uptick in his progression as a scorer, I have no clue where that's going to come from with the current line up. Seems very unlikely.

See, this is why Kane starts to look more and more attractive despite the obvious reasons he'd be locker room poison.

 

[brokenhole]

Precisely. That secondary scoring is going to be VITAL to the Sedin's success this year. If the second (and/or third) line can make other teams worry even a little (which they did NOT last year), then it opens the gate for Daniel and Henrik in a way they haven't enjoyed in a while around here.

Unfortunately, unless some younger player makes an unexpected and utterly herculean uptick in his progression as a scorer, I have no clue where that's going to come from with the current line up. Seems very unlikely.

See, this is why Kane starts to look more and more attractive despite the obvious reasons he'd be locker room poison.

It might be the out of room optic's Kane brings, rape and battered women's groups protesting outside of Rodgers.

 

[racerjoe]

Well, the best season Hank had was 112 points, so assuming that Hank can still hit 73 points, like he did the previous season when healthy a few seasons back, that puts them at 65%.

 

[Hi-wayman]

i'd say 65% of what they were at their peak.

What ever the percentage is, the Sedins are still the best conditioned, most effective players on the Canucks and would continue to be on most NHL teams. I find it laughable that there are Canuck fans ready to trade them away as washed up players or send them out to pasture. The fact that their current contract will soon end does not mean they will retire at the end of that contract.

Similar to a quote (actually a misquote) by Mark Twain, I think the Sedins could equally say: “Reports that our career with the Canucks will end soon have been greatly exaggerated”

 

[racerjoe]

What ever the percentage is, the Sedins are still the best conditioned, most effective players on the Canucks and would continue to be on most NHL teams. I find it laughable that there are Canuck fans ready to trade them away as washed up players or send them out to pasture. The fact that their current contract will soon end does not mean they will retire at the end of that contract.

Similar to a quote (actually a misquote) by Mark Twain, I think the Sedins could equally say: “Reports that our career with the Canucks will end soon have been greatly exaggeratedâ€

I don't think the twins are by any means done, but with where this team is, for the right price I would trade them, the price would be very high though. This is also different than looking to trade them.

 

[CanaFan]

What ever the percentage is, the Sedins are still the best conditioned, most effective players on the Canucks and would continue to be on most NHL teams. I find it laughable that there are Canuck fans ready to trade them away as washed up players or send them out to pasture. The fact that their current contract will soon end does not mean they will retire at the end of that contract.

Similar to a quote (actually a misquote) by Mark Twain, I think the Sedins could equally say: “Reports that our career with the Canucks will end soon have been greatly exaggeratedâ€

At the moment? Sure, they would be on a good number of teams. Not cup contending teams mind you but on a lot of the poor-to-average ones.

But here's a sobering look at the prospects of the Sedins remaining this way once their current contracts expire in 2 years. At that point they will turn 38 during training camp. This list shows the production of all players aged 38 and older since the 2005-06 lockout:

You have a single 80 point season (Selanne), a 77 point season (Whitney), and a handful of 60 point seasons. Realistically, they would be in almost unheralded territory to continue putting up 70+ points at that point. More likely they move into the 50-60 range, assuming they continue to receive the top offensive and PP minutes. This would be a 'good' outcome for a pair of 38 year olds.

Is that washed up? Absolutely not.

Are they players that could still be useful in a second line role, maybe producing 40-50 points? Absolutely.

Are they going to be players that - sentiment aside - we absolutely need to have on our team in 2018-19 and onward? I don't believe they are. At that point I would hope we have 2-3 more high end prospects/young'ish players in our system and starting to take steps into top 6 roles. At that point Horvat will be entering his 5th NHL season, Baertschi his 4th (full) season, Virtanen his 4th, Boeser likely his 2nd. We will still have Eriksson with 4 years remaining on his contract. That is - hopefully - who we have occupying top 6 and PP roles in 2018->. Players who have enough experience but need to be given the opportunity to start carrying the offensive responsibilities. That can only be done effectively (IMO) if the Sedins move on following the expiry of their contract.

 

[Hi-wayman]

I don't think the twins are by any means done, but with where this team is, for the right price I would trade them, the price would be very high though. This is also different than looking to trade them.

Would you be willing to renew their contract for another 2 seasons?

 

[racerjoe]

Would you be willing to renew their contract for another 2 seasons?

I would have to see where there are at that point, and what they wanted money wise. Wouldn't say no.

 

[biturbo19]

A lot of that was also Vigneault.

Edit: Moreover, I'd suggest that the management-down mindset of the organization at the time also played a supporting role that would likely be absent today.

That's true. Vigneault's coaching approach and systems seemed highly flattering to the Sedins, as well as what Ehrhoff could do for them. WillieD's system seems a lot less flattering to what the Twins do best.

 

[me2]

It's probably a bad suggestion, but i really do still wonder what the Sedins could do with Ehrhoff back here for a year. He's clearly not the player he once was either...but the chemistry he had with the Twins was pretty magic. It was the best years of both Hoff and the Twins careers, working together.


Hard to see where you'd really fit him in here now though. Youth heavy is where it's headed...

Ehrhoff's been bought out, demoted, let walk, waived etc the last few years. Hoff is ghost of when he was here. It is up there with reuniting them with burrows and expecting 2009-11 30g Burrows to reappear. To be honest, is have more faith in Burrows scoring 30 then Ehrhoff becoming what the was. Let it go.

 

[me2]

At the moment? Sure, they would be on a good number of teams. Not cup contending teams mind you but on a lot of the poor-to-average ones.

But here's a sobering look at the prospects of the Sedins remaining this way once their current contracts expire in 2 years. At that point they will turn 38 during training camp. This list shows the production of all players aged 38 and older since the 2005-06 lockout:

You have a single 80 point season (Selanne), a 77 point season (Whitney), and a handful of 60 point seasons. Realistically, they would be in almost unheralded territory to continue putting up 70+ points at that point. More likely they move into the 50-60 range, assuming they continue to receive the top offensive and PP minutes. This would be a 'good' outcome for a pair of 38 year olds.

Is that washed up? Absolutely not.

Are they players that could still be useful in a second line role, maybe producing 40-50 points? Absolutely.

Are they going to be players that - sentiment aside - we absolutely need to have on our team in 2018-19 and onward? I don't believe they are. At that point I would hope we have 2-3 more high end prospects/young'ish players in our system and starting to take steps into top 6 roles. At that point Horvat will be entering his 5th NHL season, Baertschi his 4th (full) season, Virtanen his 4th, Boeser likely his 2nd. We will still have Eriksson with 4 years remaining on his contract. That is - hopefully - who we have occupying top 6 and PP roles in 2018->. Players who have enough experience but need to be given the opportunity to start carrying the offensive responsibilities. That can only be done effectively (IMO) if the Sedins move on following the expiry of their contract.

That hits upon the problem. To put up those kind of numbers they are going to need to be the 1st line and 1st PP if there team, if they are at age 38 then the team is screwed anyway.

 

[biturbo19]

Ehrhoff's been bought out, demoted, let walk, waived etc the last few years. Hoff is ghost of when he was here. It is up there with reuniting them with burrows and expecting 2009-11 30g Burrows to reappear. To be honest, is have more faith in Burrows scoring 30 then Ehrhoff becoming what the was. Let it go.

I literally said in my post, he's clearly not what he once was. That obviously wouldn't be the expectation.

But as a depth guy...it wouldn't have hurt to give it a whirl imo. Though with the collection we have now, there really isn't room for him anyway.

 

[digger18]

A bath house