When Will We Begin The Slafkovsky Discussion? - UPDATE: Hatrick Against Philadelphia April 9, 2024

[Arthur Morgan]

Habs fan here. I think Slaf is a unique talent and a clearly better prospect than Knies, but I see no reason to diss on Knies. The guy is quite a good player and should be a fixture in the Leafs Top 9 or even Top 6 for years.

both players should be very exciting to watch movng forward. might be a Leafs fan but not disappointed Slaf is breaking out now. wasn't looking good after year 1 but then again neither did some other recently drafted 1st overalls in their rookie season.

guys were just trying to get under my skin I guess. I did kinda bring up MTL passing on Michkov which likely made someone mad to try and rip on Knies.

I do think the NHL or teams should consider sending down their recent 1st overall drafted player if they arent looking like they belong after 9 games.
would save a year of ELC and allow them to properly develop.

imo only ones that really deserved to stay in the NHL right out the gate were prob McDavid, Matthews and Bedard.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

He was given plenty of time with Matthews and Marner and did not really produce that much. No pp time, but still. You need to be good to produce. Can’t knock Slaf for playing in the top 6 and producing.

not knocking Slaf even in the slightest. just defending our player cause at the time when it was posted I didnt agree Slaf was blowing Knies out the water.

fun fact as well. at the same point in Slaf's career 79 games. Knies has out produced him by 11 points.

 

[BaseballCoach]

not knocking Slaf even in the slightest. just defending our player cause at the time when it was posted I didnt agree Slaf was blowing Knies out the water.

fun fact as well. at the same point in Slaf's career 79 games. Knies has out produced him by 11 points.

Knies is almost 1.5 years older

I do think the NHL or teams should consider sending down their recent 1st overall drafted player if they arent looking like they belong after 9 games.
would save a year of ELC and allow them to properly develop.

imo only ones that really deserved to stay in the NHL right out the gate were prob McDavid, Matthews and Bedard.

I guess the contentious issue is defining "not belonging". To me if you can handle a regular NHL shift and are not watching often from the pressbox, you probably belong.

How much and how fast you then improve is another matter.

 

[bobholly39]

First hat trick, but it doesn't count as it was against the Flyers.

Even Dvorak and Gallagher scored 2.

Doesn't count?

Everyone hates Philly. It counts for double.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Knies is almost 1.5 years older

yeah players develop differently. Slaf really shouldn't have been a full timer in the NHL at 18 but only so much more for him to learn being sent down.
besides Im still not sitting here saying Knies is better than Slaf. Slaf is clearly better with a much higher projection Im just disagreeing he's not blowing him out of the water.

 

[BaseballCoach]

First hat trick, but it doesn't count as it was against the Flyers.

Even Dvorak and Gallagher scored 2.

Yes, in fact most of Slafkovsky's points are coming from errors by the other team. I looked it up this morning and on the nights when the opponents did their job properly and shut Montreal out, Slafkovsky has not yet recorded a point.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Knies is almost 1.5 years older



I guess the contentious issue is defining "not belonging". To me if you can handfle a regular NHL shift and are not watching often from the pressbox, you probably belong.

How much and how fast you then improve is another matter.

his skill set belonged. he needed to develop at the NHL level but most these kids bodies arent developed enough. got little growing to do before they should belong.

Yes, in fact most of Slafkovsky's points are coming from errors by the other team. I looked it up this morning and on the nights when the opponents did their job properly and shut Montreal out, Slafkovsky has not yet recorded a point.

which really means nothing though. him, Suzuki and Caufield look good out there together and as the team grows and becomes more competitive. they will only get better

 

[BaseballCoach]

which really means nothing though. him, Suzuki and Caufield look good out there together and as the team grows and becomes more competitive. they will only get better

OMG, I just realized that Mackinnon also never gets any points on the nights Colorado is shut out!!

Full disclosure: yes I realized it all along, left out the sarcasm smiley to see who is paying attention, lol.

 

[417]

both players should be very exciting to watch movng forward. might be a Leafs fan but not disappointed Slaf is breaking out now. wasn't looking good after year 1 but then again neither did some other recently drafted 1st overalls in their rookie season.

guys were just trying to get under my skin I guess. I did kinda bring up MTL passing on Michkov which likely made someone mad to try and rip on Knies.

I do think the NHL or teams should consider sending down their recent 1st overall drafted player if they arent looking like they belong after 9 games.
would save a year of ELC and allow them to properly develop.

imo only ones that really deserved to stay in the NHL right out the gate were prob McDavid, Matthews and Bedard.

This kind of thinking needs to be altered...because "not looking good", doesn't not necessarily equate to "not developing".

Juraj Slafkovsky being a perfect example.

This idea that players MUST dominate the NHL in order to be in the NHL, simply because they were drafted 1st overall is wrong IMO. There is a small percentage of NHL players who are really dominant, and many of them did not dominate right off the bat either.

Our expectations as fans, is not what drives the evaluation of their development. It's fine that you or me, expect 1st overalls to do this or that, but the NHL is a difficult league and not everyone is going to just produce right off the rip. For most players, it's a process and that doesn't necessarily mean that the AHL/Europe is the only solution.

There are countless examples of high picks who didn't immediately have success but ended up figuring it out without having to go through a demotion, just like there are countless of examples of high picks who did figure it out immediately, but ended up fizzling out not long after.

 

[417]

yeah players develop differently. Slaf really shouldn't have been a full timer in the NHL at 18 but only so much more for him to learn being sent down.
besides Im still not sitting here saying Knies is better than Slaf. Slaf is clearly better with a much higher projection Im just disagreeing he's not blowing him out of the water.

Why? Because he didn't meet your expectations?

His coach certainly didn't have an issue with him being in the NHL at 18, and that's all that really matters.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

This kind of thinking needs to be altered...because "not looking good", doesn't not necessarily equate to "not developing".

Juraj Slafkovsky being a perfect example.

This idea that players MUST dominate the NHL in order to be in the NHL, simply because they were drafted 1st overall is wrong IMO. There is a small percentage of NHL players who are really dominant, and many of them did not dominate right off the bat either.

Our expectations as fans, is not what drives the evaluation of their development. It's fine that you or me, expect 1st overalls to do this or that, but the NHL is a difficult league and not everyone is going to just produce right off the rip. For most players, it's a process and that doesn't necessarily mean that the AHL/Europe is the only solution.

There are countless examples of high picks who didn't immediately have success but ended up figuring it out without having to go through a demotion, just like there are countless of examples of high picks who did figure it out immediately, but ended up fizzling out not long after.

its just when someone is drafted 1st overall expectations are higher than most players. I wouldn't say must dominate either. not right out the gate atleast. for a while it felt that way but really we have only had 3 break out in year 1 since McDavid was drafted

and with players getting smaller and smaller its more rare they are ready right out the gate. another problem is the AHL rules where its hard to get 18 year olds in. so its NHL or jr. which for most 1st overall picks. there's not much left to learn in jr.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Why? Because he didn't meet your expectations?

His coach certainly didn't have an issue with him being in the NHL at 18, and that's all that really matters.

well normally my argument is players being little small like for example Jack Hughes in year 1.

Slaf was 6'4" 200+ pounds I think he was like 220 pounds or something so no he wasnt really that small but more so just it would save a ELC year.

MTL wasn't competitive at all. longer u can wait to having to sign your new core the better. look at Ottawa. got their core completely signed and still yet to really make progress

in the end 1 year was burned on Slaf and he only got 39 games in

 

[417]

its just when someone is drafted 1st overall expectations are higher than most players. I wouldn't say must dominate either. not right out the gate atleast. for a while it felt that way but really we have only had 3 break out in year 1 since McDavid was drafted

Again I ask, and when Slafkovsky was struggling producing points for last year and early this year I asked my fellow Habs fans the same question several times, what do expectations have to do with development?

Neither of those things feed into each other.

It feels like we've been duped by the McDavid's and Crosby's and Ovechkins to expect 1st overalls, or early picks who make it straight to the NHL, to have to be dominant or productive players. This is really only true in hockey, no other sports do expectations work this way for draft picks (though to be fair, in other league's 18 year olds don't jump straight into the pros, that's another debate I suppose).

But really, most early picks who jump straight to the NHL, aren't all productive right away.

That needs to be normalized.

and with players getting smaller and smaller its more rare they are ready right out the gate. another problem is the AHL rules where its hard to get 18 year olds in. so its NHL or jr. which for most 1st overall picks. there's not much left to learn in jr.

Not to mention that salary cap which incentivizes teams to graduate players earlier, so they can reap the benefits of ELCs and offset the costs of higher salaries on their books...it's just a different era.

Prospects are going to be graduating to the NHL rate at an earlier rate. So this idea that they have to gradually dominate lower levels until they reach the NHL, I think is slowly becoming a thing of the past.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Again I ask, and when Slafkovsky was struggling producing points for last year and early this year I asked my fellow Habs fans the same question several times, what do expectations have to do with development?

Neither of those things feed into each other.

It feels like we've been duped by the McDavid's and Crosby's and Ovechkins to expect 1st overalls, or early picks who make it straight to the NHL, to have to be dominant or productive players. This is really only true in hockey, no other sports do expectations work this way for draft picks (though to be fair, in other league's 18 year olds don't jump straight into the pros, that's another debate I suppose).

But really, most early picks who jump straight to the NHL, aren't all productive right away.

That needs to be normalized.


Not to mention that salary cap which incentivizes teams to graduate players earlier, so they can reap the benefits of ELCs and offset the costs of higher salaries on their books...it's just a different era.

Prospects are going to be graduating to the NHL rate at an earlier rate. So this idea that they have to gradually dominate lower levels until they reach the NHL, I think is slowly becoming a thing of the past.

well expectations have nothing to do with it. all depend how hes used and what he needs, im sure the team will figure it out. some need to be in the spotlight right away and some need to be broken in on like the 3rd line. in the end who knows how these guys will look once they hit their prime.

expectations are always higher just because they were selected 1st. usually very good chance u got a superstar.

and that 100% is a part of it. for a while it felt like we were spoiled
Ovechkin, Crosby, Kane, Stamkos, Tavares, Hall, Nugent-Hopkins, MacKinnon, Ekblad, McDavid, Matthews, Hischier
can prob add Kovalchuk and Nash too

and yeah thats kinda true with the salary cap.

 

[99GoHabsGo99]

Lol this dude is obsessed, What a thread.

Slaf looking awesome, Can't wait to see him keep getting better and better

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Lol this dude is obsessed, What a thread.

Slaf looking awesome, Can't wait to see him keep getting better and better

ruined the celebratory thread

 

[FerrisRox]

yeah players develop differently. Slaf really shouldn't have been a full timer in the NHL at 18 but only so much more for him to learn being sent down.
besides Im still not sitting here saying Knies is better than Slaf. Slaf is clearly better with a much higher projection Im just disagreeing he's not blowing him out of the water.

I completely disagree.

If Slafkovksy didn't play in the NHL last season there's no chance he performs the way he did this season.

He needed those NHL games to learn the speed of the game, understand the level of physicality and adjust his game accordingly. Playing in the AHL, or any other league, would only postpone that important adjustment period.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

The first hat trick will be his easiest ever. The compete level from the Flyers was zero.

 

[ijuka]

A point per game over 30 games or so.

Definitely improved quicker than I thought. He was really a struggle to watch with TPS but I guess it's true what they say that power forwards take quicker to develop.

Of course, his tools themselves always were high-end so since he seems to actually be able to play in NHL, a PPG might not be out of question next season.

I completely disagree.

If Slafkovksy didn't play in the NHL last season there's no chance he performs the way he did this season.

He needed those NHL games to learn the speed of the game, understand the level of physicality and adjust his game accordingly. Playing in the AHL, or any other league, would only postpone that important adjustment period.

I'm really not sure about this narrative. I definitely think that playing in AHL for a season would have made more sense.

It worked very well for Rantanen, who is a pretty similar player profile. The best comp in NHL, perhaps.

Perhaps he'd have had an even stronger season if he had played in AHL last season instead.

 

[Jabba11]

Doesn't count?

Everyone hates Philly. It counts for double.

Triple for Sid the Kid

 

[FerrisRox]

A point per game over 30 games or so.

Definitely improved quicker than I thought. He was really a struggle to watch with TPS but I guess it's true what they say that power forwards take quicker to develop.

Of course, his tools themselves always were high-end so since he seems to actually be able to play in NHL, a PPG might not be out of question next season.


I'm really not sure about this narrative. I definitely think that playing in AHL for a season would have made more sense.

It worked very well for Rantanen, who is a pretty similar player profile. The best comp in NHL, perhaps.

Perhaps he'd have had an even stronger season if he had played in AHL last season instead.

Strongly disagree.

The biggest struggles I saw him dealing with last year were the speed and pace of the game. The AHL would have done nothing to help that. Odd that you think a year in the AHL would have made Slafkovsky even better this year, considering Rantanen, when he arrived in the NHL after a year in the minors put up *less points* than Slafkovsky did this year.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

I completely disagree.

If Slafkovksy didn't play in the NHL last season there's no chance he performs the way he did this season.

He needed those NHL games to learn the speed of the game, understand the level of physicality and adjust his game accordingly. Playing in the AHL, or any other league, would only postpone that important adjustment period.

I take back what I said about him. I forgot how big he was out of his draft year. kinda used to players being on the smaller side. and I did say that these players basically have nothing else to learn in jr and Should be in the NHL just alot of the time lately their body isnt really NHL ready

 

[HABitual Fan]

Strongly disagree.

The biggest struggles I saw him dealing with last year were the speed and pace of the game. The AHL would have done nothing to help that. Odd that you think a year in the AHL would have made Slafkovsky even better this year, considering Rantanen, when he arrived in the NHL after a year in the minors put up *less points* than Slafkovsky did this year.

I will add that last season he struggled with keeping his head up. I would say the NHL is a safer place to learn that lesson , with fewer players taking advantage, than the AHL would have been with more players needing to look for big hits to keep their jobs.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Its so weird to see Slaf developing so rapidly, and looking so good this season and to see posters still hang on to the "rushed to the NHL" narrative.

I was certainly wrong on Slafs talent level and potential but I was adamant that playing in the NHL with superior coaching, facilities, and teammates was better than staying home and racking up points in a secondary league or riding the bus in the AHL.

I guess you can always say "what if" instead of admitting you were wrong.

Not directed at anyone in particular.

 

[Sabre the Win]

Slaf is a better 1st overall than Lafreniere and Laf came with more hype.