When McDavid retires his career will be the equal of ...

[ghostingtaro]

lets wait and see until he wins a cup

 

[Video Nasty]

He needs another season like this past one just to match Howe's best 4 year run, let alone peak higher.

From '50-'51 through '53-'54 Howe scored 46.2% more than his nearest non-teammate (Maurice Richard). 4 consecutive Art Ross Trophies

The past 4 seasons McDavid has scored 33.9% more than his nearest non-teammate (Nathan MacKinnon). 3 of 4 Art Ross Trophies

If you do the past 3 seasons he has scored 44.3% more than his nearest non-teammate (Nathan MacKinnon). 3 consecutive Art Ross Trophies. So if he can string another dominant Art Ross season together then he can maybe join the conversation with Howe's peak.

Howe wasn't just great for a long time, 20 consecutive seasons as a top 5 scorer. He was dominant with a Mario-level peak at the beginning of that crazy long prime.

Except McDavid is doing it in a league with 600 more players at any given time.

It’s not easy by any means, but it’s certainly easier for the best player in the league to finish top 5 for 20 years when there’s 5x less competition.

In fact, Howe’s 4 straight Art Rosses is his longest stretch of finishing at least top 2 in scoring.

McDavid has already done this 7 years in a row and he’s doing it against a lot more talent.

McDavid has a ways to go for longevity, but something like 10-12 years in a row of being 1 or 2 in scoring easily trumps being top 5 in scoring for 20 years back when there were a grand total of 6 teams for all but 2 of those years.

If he wins a 4th straight Ross next season and it resembles anything like 2020-2021 and 2022-2023, Howe’s best 4 season stretch gets buried, if one gives it the context they normally do when making other arguments.

 

[norrisnick]

Except McDavid is doing it in a league with 600 more players at any given time.

It’s not easy by any means, but it’s certainly easier for the best player in the league to finish top 5 for 20 years when there’s 5x less competition.

In fact, Howe’s 4 straight Art Rosses is his longest stretch of finishing at least top 2 in scoring.

McDavid has already done this 7 years in a row and he’s doing it against a lot more talent.

McDavid has a ways to go for longevity, but something like 10-12 years in a row of being 1 or 2 in scoring easily trumps being top 5 in scoring for 20 years back when there were a grand total of 6 teams for all but 2 of those years.

If he wins a 4th straight Ross next season and it resembles anything like 2020-2021 and 2022-2023, Howe’s best 4 season stretch gets buried, if one gives it the context they normally do when making other arguments.

Offensively, maybe. The points was the easiest thing to point out where Howe was every bit as impressive as the top end.

But one can't forget that Howe brought so much more than just offense to the table.

 

[wetcoast]

Dunno if he'll ever hit that Wayne/Mario tier.....went with Crosby.

I took Mario but I think by the time it's all said and done there might be a great discussion of how all 3 get ranked all time.

 

[Oleksiak]

Marcel Dionne

 

[Albatros]

View attachment 731058

"Gotta do something in the playoffs"

At some point, we might need to accept that there is a limit how far 2 players can drag a team.

Crosby and Malkin did pretty well.

 

[wetcoast]

Gotta do some winning in the playoffs before his career ends though otherwise those regular season points and awards won't mean all that much.

I get what you are saying but this post needs to be repeated.

View attachment 731058

"Gotta do something in the playoffs"

At some point, we might need to accept that there is a limit how far 2 players can drag a team.

 

[McFlash97]

He will have more awards than Mario, and will generally be called the modern day Lemieux in skill and ability to embarass opponents. Gretzky can not be caught.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Dionne

 

[Perfect_Drug]

I wanna say between Mario and Sid. But he'd need the cup.

It's totally unfair. I get it.


That said...

Mario had several hall of famers on his team for his cup wins.

Coffey Jagr Francis Trottier Recchi L.Murphy
(Barasso isn't in but he has a Vezina). While coached by Scotty Bowman.

Like Mario played on absolutely abysmal teams for most of his career. Absolute shite lottery garbage. Except for a short window where he was playing on a dynasty level stacked team.

McD had Drai and nobody else on that tier.

 

[bobholly39]

I wouldn’t say so. Beliveau was maybe the first prospect to come into the NHL with the superstar label already attached, like a Lindros or Crosby or McDavid. He was so hyped that the Canadiens actually bought out his amateur league to force him to become professional on their timetable. At 6’3” and solidly built, he would be considered a large center even by today’s standards let alone the 1950s. He was not only the best center in the league by a considerable margin, but also had a Bergeron/Yzerman level of respect as a captain and spokesman for the franchise, and ended up being the 1C on two different dynasties, and was still making postseason AS teams into his late 30s. If we stop the tape in 1969, there would be a decent argument for him as the GOAT of the first 50 years of the NHL.

That’s a hell of a high bar to reach, no matter how good a player is. IMO Crosby has finally gotten there but it took till his 30s. McDavid could very well fall short by simply being a disappointment, but he could also have a very strong respectable career and just never quite hit that level of prestige long-term.

I don't necessarily agree.

Maybe before his career begun, McDavid even coming close to Beliveau's career would have been a high bar. But 8 seasons in, considering all he's already accomplished - anything less than #5 all-time for McDavid (meaning, above Beliveau and even Crosby) would be a disappointment from this point forward.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I don't necessarily agree.

Maybe before his career begun, McDavid even coming close to Beliveau's career would have been a high bar. But 8 seasons in, considering all he's already accomplished - anything less than #5 all-time for McDavid (meaning, above Beliveau and even Crosby) would be a disappointment from this point forward.

I guess at this point he’s regarded as the superior offensive force, but how does he get past Beliveau and Crosby? He would have to substantially change his game in order to be the two-way contributor, and he would need to find himself on a powerhouse team to come anywhere near 3+ Cups. He would basically have to re-live the second half of Steve Yzerman’s career, without the offensive dropoff.

It just seems like a bit of a stretch to ask all that of him at this stage of his career, let alone be disappointed if he doesn’t do it.

 

[Miro4Norris]

Marcel Dionne. 2 cups and 2 Conn Smythe's then we can start comparing him to Crosby. Good luck with that

 

[bobholly39]

I guess at this point he’s regarded as the superior offensive force, but how does he get past Beliveau and Crosby? He would have to substantially change his game in order to be the two-way contributor, and he would need to find himself on a powerhouse team to come anywhere near 3+ Cups. He would basically have to re-live the second half of Steve Yzerman’s career, without the offensive dropoff.

It just seems like a bit of a stretch to ask all that of him at this stage of his career, let alone be disappointed if he doesn’t do it.

I'm not sure I follow your logic?

Mario Lemieux and Wayne Gretzky never changed their game to be two way contributors. They are both regarded ahead of Crosby/Beliveau.
Mario Lemieux doesn't have 3+ cups, he's still regarded above them.
He doesn't need to do either of those 2 specific things to surpass Crosby/Beliveau.

If you're asking me do I think McDavid will surpass Crosby/Beliveau as a 2 way player, I'll say no
If you're asking me if he likely ends up with 3+ cups - also no.

But if you're asking if his overall career is likely to surpass Crosby/Beliveau, i would say yes. Through age 26, he is clearly ahead of both. Both have aged tremendously well, so maybe it's not a certainty McDavid definitely ends up ahead, but I do think it's the most likely outcome.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Dionne

He surpassed Dionne 2 years ago.

He has 3 better playoffs than Dionne ever did.

His 2022 run is better than Dionne's entire playoff career.

 

[Johnny Tomala]

I wanna say between Mario and Sid. But he'd need the cup.

It's totally unfair. I get it.


That said...

Mario had several hall of famers on his team for his cup wins.

Coffey Jagr Francis Trottier Recchi L.Murphy
(Barasso isn't in but he has a Vezina). While coached by Scotty Bowman.

Like Mario played on absolutely abysmal teams for most of his career. Absolute shite lottery garbage. Except for a short window where he was playing on a dynasty level stacked team.

McD had Drai and nobody else on that tier.

Barrasso is in.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

Leon Draisaitl!