TSN Radio when does the Leafs window open?

[Jack Bauer]

We'd be more than fine, we'd have the best D in the NHL.

That is the goal.

 

[Bomber0104]

Buff wasn't a dman for them, and yes Rielly/Gardiner/Zaitsev is near that quality.

LOL

Yeah just like how Stajan was better than Bergeron...and Schenn was better than Karlsson...

You'll have to excuse me if I take your opinion with a grain of salt...

 

[81Leafs50]

The window opens when the Leafs either draft/develop a #1 dman or acquire one.

I'm talking about someone like OEL, Burns, Hedman, Karlsson, Keith, Suter, Weber etc. .....

 

[Gary Nylund]

That is the goal.

The goal is to win the cup (or if you prefer, to have the best team). We don't need to have to have the best D, or the best forwards, or the best goalie or the best anything else. As long as we have the best team overall, we're fine.

Edit - I can think of only one team in the 45 or so years that I've been watching that probably had the best forwards, Dmen and goalie. It's a rare thing, doubt it will ever happen again.

 

[Jack Bauer]

The goal is to win the cup (or if you prefer, to have the best team). We don't need to have to have the best D, or the best forwards, or the best goalie or the best anything else. As long as we have the best team overall, we're fine.

Edit - I can think of only one team in the 45 or so years that I've been watching that probably had the best forwards, Dmen and goalie. It's a rare thing, doubt it will ever happen again.

Well I agree to a point but you still need to have really good players in those roles.

If Rielly, Gardiner, and Zaitsev are 3 of our top 4 then we're going to have trouble I think if we really don't shore up the overall depth. Bringing in the depth to push one down to the 3rd pairing offers much more stability. Hopefully some of that depth is already in the system and a Dermott or Neilsen forces their way in within the next 2 years and allows us to spend other assets on a top pairing guy.

 

[Jack Bauer]

The window opens when the Leafs either draft/develop a #1 dman or acquire one.

I'm talking about someone like OEL, Burns, Hedman, Karlsson, Keith, Suter, Weber etc. .....

It would be interesting to see the reactions if we traded up for a Liljegren.

We're finally getting to a point where we have the depth to make a move like that. But I do expect it to be moved for a veteran vs a teenager.

 

[zeke]

Leafs '17 v Hawks '08

(xGF% = zone/score/venue-adjusted Expected Goals For percentage (from Corsica.Hockey)

Expected Goals = All Unblocked Shot Attempts adjusted for shot distance, quality, etc.

Number in brackets = xGF% Relative to Team)

C Matthews (19): 47gms, 23gls, 39pts, 17:40 (40gls/68pts), 53.1xgf% (+0.3)
C Toews (19): 64gms, 24gls, 54pts, 18:40 (31gls/69pts), 49.3xgf% (+1.1)

W Marner (19): 47gms, 11gls, 39pts, 17:00 (19gls/68pts), 50.6cf% (-3.5)
W Kane (19): 82gms, 21gls, 72pts, 18:22 (21gls/72pts), 49.5xgf% (+1.4)

W VanRyk (27): 47gms, 17gls, 39pts, 15:54 (30gls/68pts), 52.9xgf% (-0.2)
W Williams (27): 43gms, 13gls, 36pts, 16:35 (25gls/69pts), 43.8xgf% (-5.4)


C Kadri (26): 47gms, 20gls, 35pts, 16:27 (35gls/61pts), 56.6xgf% (+4.9)
F Sharp (26): 80gms, 36gls, 62pts, 18:47 (37gls/64pts), 47.6xgf% (-1.6)

W Nylander (20): 46gms, 10gls, 31pts, 15:57 (18gls/55pts), 56.7xgf% (+6.3)
W Havlat (26): 35gms, 10gls, 27pts, 18:35 (23gls/63pts), 56.1xgf% (+7.5)

C Bozak (30): 44gms, 12gls, 30pts, 16:27 (22gls/56pts), 52.1xgf% (-1.3)
C Lang (37): 76gms, 21gls, 54pts, 18:25 (23gls/58pts), 52.8xgf% (+6.1)


W Brown (22): 47gms, 11gls, 21pts, 15:40 (19gls/37pts), 51.0xgf% (-2.5)
W Byfuglien (22): 67gms, 19gls, 36pts, 17:02 (23gls/44pts), 48.9xgf% (-0.9)

W Hyman (24): 46gms, 7gls, 21pts, 16:58 (13gls/37pts), 53.2xgf% (+0.4)
W Ladd (22): 63gms, 14gls, 30pts, 12:46 (18gls/39pts), 52.1xgf% (+7.2)

W Komarov (29): 47gms, 8gls, 16pts, 17:03 (14gls/28pts), 54.5xgf% (+1.9)
W Bourque (26): 62gms, 10gls, 24pts, 15:16 (13gls/32pts), 47.4xgf% (-0.6)


C Smith (28): 28gms, 2gls, 3pts, 11:41 (6gls/9pts), 53.8xgf% (-2.3)
C Perreault (36): 53gms, 9gls, 14pts, 11:30 (14gls/22pts), 45.1xgf% (-3.3)

W Soshnikov (23): 37gms, 2gls, 5pts, 10:51 (4gls/11pts), 50.3xgf% (-3.2)
W Burish (25): 81gms, 4gls, 8pts, 11:45 (4gls/8pts), 43.6xgf% (-5.4)

W Martin (27): 47gms, 4gls, 6pts, 8:46 (7gls/11pts), 50.3xgf% (-2.9)
W Lapointe (35): 52gms, 3gls, 7pts, 8:38 (5gls/11pts), 44.0xgf% (-5.9)


C Gauthier (21): 17gms, 2gls, 3pts, 9:37 (10gls/15pts), 43.8xgf% (-4.7)
C Bolland (21): 39gms, 4gls, 17pts, 13:43 (8gls/36pts), 51.8xgf% (+1.8)

W Kapanen (20): -------
W Versteeg (21): 13gms, 2gls, 4pts, 15:52 (13gls/26pts), 43.7xgf% (-5.4)

W Leivo (23): 2gms, 0gls, 0pts, 8:26 (0gls/0pts), 54.2xgf% (+17.7)
W Skille (20): 16gms, 3gls, 15pts, 11:59 (15gls/25pts), 58.8xgf% (+11.8)




D Rielly (22): 42gms, 1gls, 17pts, 22:22 (2gls/33pts), 53.1xgf% (-0.2)
D Keith (24): 82gms, 12gls, 32pts, 25:34 (12gls/32pts), 48.8xgf% (+0.5)

D Zaitsev (25): 47gms, 1gls, 20pts, 22:36 (2gls/35pts), 51.2xgf% (-2.9)
D Seabrook (22): 82gms, 9gls, 32pts, 21:30 (9gls/32pts), 48.8xgf% (+0.3)


D Gardiner (26): 47gms, 6gls, 23pts, 20:53 (11gls/40pts), 54.5xgf% (+2.5)
D Sopel (31): 58gms, 1gls, 20pts, 20:18 (2gls/28pts), 49.1xgf% (+0.8)

D Marincin (24): 20gms, 1gls, 7pts, 18:38 (4gls/27pts), 57.0xgf% (+5.7)
D Wisniewski (23): 68gms, 7gls, 26pts, 17:00 (8gls/31pts), 49.1xgf% (+1.5)


D Hunwick (31): 39gms, 0gls, 11pts, 17:59 (0gls/23pts), 52.3xgf% (-1.7)
D Zyuzin (30): 32gms, 2gls, 5pts, 14:58 (5gls/13pts), 46.8xgf% (-2.9)

D Polak (30): 42gms, 3gls, 5pts, 17:36 (6gls/10pts), 51.0xgf% (-2.8)
D Hendry (23): 40gms, 1gls, 4pts, 17:13 (2gls/8pts), 45.3xgf% (-4.2)


D Carrick (22): 43gms, 2gls, 6pts, 16:26 (4gls/11pts), 53.8xgf% (+0.9)
D Barker (21): 45gms, 6gls, 18pts, 17:12 (11gls/33pts), 44.9xgf% (-4.3)

D Dermott (20): ----
D Hjalmarsson (21): 13gms, 0gls, 1pts, 13:37 (0gls/6pts), 56.1xgf% (+11.2)




G Andersen (27): 39gms, .921sv%, .925es%
G Khabibulin (35): 50gms, .909sv%, .916es%

G McElhinney (33): 9gms, .929sv%, .933es%
G Lalime (33): 27gms, .900sv%, .912es%

G Bibeau (22): 2gms, .927sv%, .949es%
G Crawford (23): 5gms, .929sv%, .951es%

 

[zeke]

I'm talking about someone like OEL, Burns, Hedman, Karlsson, Keith, Suter, Weber etc. .....

How many cups have those guys won?

 

[PuckMagi]

no that's problem solved particularly when it comes to deadline pickups

Horton goes on LTIR and we can exceed the cap by the amount of his salary

Yes, we can exceed the cap with LTIR. However, you can bank up cap space during the year by being under the cap.

For example, if we spent $7 million under the cap during the year... with the Horton contract, we only bank up $2 million worth of cap space per day. If another team spent $7 million under the cap during the year (without a Horton contract), then they bank up the equivalent of $7 million per day. Therefore, the team without the Horton LTIR contract can spend a lot more at the deadline. That's how teams are able to sign guys making $10 million a year and fit them under the cap (because they banked up cap space during the year). That's why if you look at some teams that won the cup, if you add up all their salaries, they go well over the cap. That's the best method of legal "cap circumvention"... you bank up space during the year and then spend a lot at the deadline to ice a playoff team that would otherwise be way over the cap. The Horton contract makes it very difficult for us to do that. So other teams might only be $3 million under the cap during the year and they can bank up some space with being $3 million under the cap. For the Leafs, we would have to be $8 million under the cap to bank up the same amount of cap space.

Therefore, considering this situation, we either have to go WAY under the cap to bank up space... or we should just spend right to the cap from day 1. So that's how the Horton/Clarkson contract still screws us. I guess most people don't really know this, but I'm fairly certain I'm correct about this. It was discussed at length here a while ago.

No one really thought it would matter because we thought the re-build would take longer... but this is now pretty important if we're looking to make deadline upgrades for a playoff push over the next few years.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Well I agree to a point but you still need to have really good players in those roles.

If Rielly, Gardiner, and Zaitsev are 3 of our top 4 then we're going to have trouble I think if we really don't shore up the overall depth. Bringing in the depth to push one down to the 3rd pairing offers much more stability. Hopefully some of that depth is already in the system and a Dermott or Neilsen forces their way in within the next 2 years and allows us to spend other assets on a top pairing guy.

I'm confident that our depth will shored up anyway, the plan isn't to contend with Hulak. What's really cool though is that we may have a top 4 guy in our system already, we just have to wait a bit to find out.

Yes, we can exceed the cap with LTIR. However, you can bank up cap space during the year by being under the cap.

For example, if we spent $7 million under the cap during the year... with the Horton contract, we only bank up $2 million worth of cap space per day. If another team spent $7 million under the cap during the year (without a Horton contract), then they bank up the equivalent of $7 million per day. Therefore, the team without the Horton LTIR contract can spend a lot more at the deadline. That's how teams are able to sign guys making $10 million a year and fit them under the cap (because they banked up cap space during the year). That's why if you look at some teams that won the cup, if you add up all their salaries, they go well over the cap. That's the best method of legal "cap circumvention"... you bank up space during the year and then spend a lot at the deadline to ice a playoff team that would otherwise be way over the cap. The Horton contract makes it very difficult for us to do that. So other teams might only be $3 million under the cap during the year and they can bank up some space with being $3 million under the cap. For the Leafs, we would have to be $8 million under the cap to bank up the same amount of cap space.

Therefore, considering this situation, we either have to go WAY under the cap to bank up space... or we should just spend right to the cap from day 1. So that's how the Horton/Clarkson contract still screws us. I guess most people don't really know this, but I'm fairly certain I'm correct about this. It was discussed at length here a while ago.

No one really thought it would matter because we thought the re-build would take longer... but this is now pretty important if we're looking to make deadline upgrades for a playoff push over the next few years.

If I'm understanding this correctly, I don't think it's a big deal. If we spend let's say 2m under the cap up to the trade deadline, we can still add a 7m salary or something because that salary only counts for that pre-rated portion of the season.

 

[Morbo]

The Leafs have a lot of things going for them; they have a 19 year old franchise centre, a young quick skating offensive forward group, elite coaching, and top notch special teams. That's a lot of boxes ticked already. When the contending window opens depends on how quickly they can address their needs. Their issues are depth on defence, weakness in the faceoff circle, and lack of experience.

There's not much that can be done about the last one other than play games. I don't think it's realistic to obtain a top pairing guy by trade, unless we make a move for a high level prospect who turns into one. We'll probably have to draft that player (several teams have done this with 2nd round picks). We can also look at acquiring a bigger money veteran top 4 guy with 2-3 years left to take advantage of the big 3 contract window. Even that much would push Carrick out of the top 4 and move one of the more limited players out of the lineup, as well as give Dermott etc. more time to develop, yet would still leave us with flexibility when the stars' payday comes.

The faceoff thing is an interesting problem for the Leafs management because as much as everyone detests Bozak, he is very good at faceoffs. You take him out of the lineup and we have zero centres that can play any kind of minutes who are reliable on the draw. Matthews I'm sure will end up at 50 or above, but he has to learn his way. Kadri is good at lots of things, but at 26 I'm not sure how much better he will get in that department.

All this is of course assuming Freddy Andersen is a goalie you can win a Cup with. No idea if that's the case at this early stage.

 

[HockeyThoughts]

I'm sure it's been mentioned in this thread already but our best case scenario is to follow the Chicago Blackhawks model.

2006 - No playoffs - Draft Toews (3rd Overall)

2007 - No playoffs - Draft Kane (1st Overall)

2008 - 88pts - 10th place in Western - Sign Brian Campbell in offseason

2009 - Lost in Conference Finals
-By playoffs they were rolling:
--> Seabrook, Keith, Campbell and Byfuglien as top 4
--> Bolland, Pahlsson, Kane, Sharp, Versteeg and Toews in top 6

2010 - Won Stanley Cup
-By playoffs they were rolling:
--> Keith, Seabrook, Hjalmarsson and Campbell as top 4
--> Toews, Kane, Bolland, Hossa, Sharp and Versteeg in Top 6

---

Instead of missing the playoffs this season, I'd like to see us make it and likely lose in the 1st or 2nd round.

With the right additions, both internally and externally in the offseason, I think we could make some damage in the postseason going forward.

---
Best Case Direct Comparisons:

Toews/Kane = Matthews/Marner
Bolland = Kadri
Hossa/Sharp = Nylander/JVR
Versteeg = Bozak (both are/were expendable)

Keith/Seabrook = Rielly/Gardiner
Hjalmarsson = Zaitsev
Campbell = ??? (Shattenkirk is legit Campbell 2.0)

---

In their first cup win their top offensive contributors were Toews/Kane/Sharp/Keith those are four positions were could potentially fill internally with Matthews/Marner/Nylander/Rielly the next 4 were Byfuglien/Bolland/Hossa/Versteeg. I think that Kadri and JVR could easily fill 2 of those roles and for all his shortcomings, so could Bozak.

So the real questions are:

Who will be our Dustin Byfuglien and score 11G-16pts playing only 16:15TOI/G?

&

Who will be our Brian Campbell and solidify the top 4?

---
My opinion:

(1) I would like to see Shattenkirk signed this offseason to fill the gap in the top 4. Going forward, I firmly believe our bottom pairing will become a position of strength and great depth with the likes of Nielsen, Dermott, Valiev and Loov competing with Marincin and Carrick.

(2) I wouldn't mind seeing Tyler Bozak traded to open up his position (which is essentially as an offensively focused center) to allow William Nylander to develop in that position.

(3) JVR is someone I can live with keeping or trading. His consistent offensive production accompanied by his contract and past playoff performances - make him an extremely valuable addition to a Stanley Cup contending club who are tight against the cap. I trust the management team to make the right decision regarding his future.

--
TLDR:

You add Shattenkirk this offseason, allow Nylander to play center and the sky's the limit for this team.

Matthews --> Go best on best
Nylander --> Given preferential offensive matchups
Kadri --> Shutdown line
Gauthier --> Grind line / PK

Rielly-Shattenkirk
Gardiner-Zaitsev

Andersen

With Marner, JVR, Brown, Hyman, Komarov, Soshnikov, Martin AND Kapanen + Leipsic somewhere on the wings and you've got a great team IMO.

 

[Suntouchable13]

The Leafs have a lot of things going for them; they have a 19 year old franchise centre, a young quick skating offensive forward group, elite coaching, and top notch special teams. That's a lot of boxes ticked already. When the contending window opens depends on how quickly they can address their needs. Their issues are depth on defence, weakness in the faceoff circle, and lack of experience.

There's not much that can be done about the last one other than play games. I don't think it's realistic to obtain a top pairing guy by trade, unless we make a move for a high level prospect who turns into one. We'll probably have to draft that player (several teams have done this with 2nd round picks). We can also look at acquiring a bigger money veteran top 4 guy with 2-3 years left to take advantage of the big 3 contract window. Even that much would push Carrick out of the top 4 and move one of the more limited players out of the lineup, as well as give Dermott etc. more time to develop, yet would still leave us with flexibility when the stars' payday comes.

The faceoff thing is an interesting problem for the Leafs management because as much as everyone detests Bozak, he is very good at faceoffs. You take him out of the lineup and we have zero centres that can play any kind of minutes who are reliable on the draw. Matthews I'm sure will end up at 50 or above, but he has to learn his way. Kadri is good at lots of things, but at 26 I'm not sure how much better he will get in that department.

All this is of course assuming Freddy Andersen is a goalie you can win a Cup with. No idea if that's the case at this early stage.

Teams won with Niemi, Crawford, Osgood, Fluery, I am sure Freddy is not worse than those guys.

 

[pylon17]

How many cups have those guys won?

The last 7 years: Letang, Keith, Doughty, Chara.
Prior: Lidstrom, Pronger, Niedermayer, Stevens, Rafalski, Blake, Bourque.
Excptions: Carolina 06 (F. Kaberle), TB 04 (Boyle).

 

[Liminality]

I'm not sure what type of contract Shattenkirk is looking for, 7m+? He'd be a huge get next year and would definitely be contending while just using capspace.

If we resign our RFA's, we should have enough money to sign him to a decent contract although anything like 7.5m might be too much until we clear some of the weird cap hits.

 

[zeke]

The last 7 years: Letang, Keith, Doughty, Chara.

Age 22

Even Strength

Doughty: 18:54toi, 0.95pts/60, 55.9xgf% (+4.2)
Rielly: 18:29toi, 1.08pts/60, 53.1xgf% (-0.2)
Chara: 17:50toi, 0.52pts/60, ---
Letang: 17:21toi, 1.04pts/60, 53.3xgf% (-1.2)
Keith: 17:09toi, 0.78pts/60, ---

Penalty Kill

Keith: 4:57toi, ---
Chara: 4:38toi, ---
Rielly: 2:32toi, 5.7xga60 (+0.4)
Doughty: 2:17toi, 5.6ga60 (+0.7)
Letang: 1:22toi, 5.1xga60 (-0.1)

Power Play

Rielly: 1:19toi, 3.23pts/60, 5.7xgf60 (-1.5)
Doughty: 3:42toi, 2.73pts/60, 5.9xgf60 (+1.0)
Letang: 2:49toi, 1.45pts/60, 5.5xgf60 (-0.6)
Keith: 1:19toi, 1.12pts/60, ---
Chara: 0:23toi, 0.00pts/60, ---



Rielly's right there, and at age 22 the 5th overall pick has been a #1 dman in the world championships, the world cup, and the nhl.

 

[zeke]

I'm not sure what type of contract Shattenkirk is looking for, 7m+? He'd be a huge get next year and would definitely be contending while just using capspace.

If we resign our RFA's, we should have enough money to sign him to a decent contract although anything like 7.5m might be too much until we clear some of the weird cap hits.

I don't see why we want Shattenkirk. He's always been a sheltered dman at even strength, with similar usage as Gardiner, but with only good not great numbers in those sheltered minutes (unlike Gardiner's great numbers in those sheltered minutes).

He doesn't play the PK anymore either.

But he is excellent on the PP. One of the best.

But do we really want to be paying a #1 dman salary to a guy who'll likely be our #4 dman at even strength, and not play on the PK?

 

[Menzinger]

Age 22

Even Strength

Doughty: 18:54toi, 0.95pts/60, 55.9xgf% (+4.2)
Rielly: 18:29toi, 1.08pts/60, 53.1xgf% (-0.2)
Chara: 17:50toi, 0.52pts/60, ---
Letang: 17:21toi, 1.04pts/60, 53.3xgf% (-1.2)
Keith: 17:09toi, 0.78pts/60, ---

Penalty Kill

Keith: 4:57toi, ---
Chara: 4:38toi, ---
Rielly: 2:32toi, 5.7xga60 (+0.4)
Doughty: 2:17toi, 5.6ga60 (+0.7)
Letang: 1:22toi, 5.1xga60 (-0.1)

Power Play

Rielly: 1:19toi, 3.23pts/60, 5.7xgf60 (-1.5)
Doughty: 3:42toi, 2.73pts/60, 5.9xgf60 (+1.0)
Letang: 2:49toi, 1.45pts/60, 5.5xgf60 (-0.6)
Keith: 1:19toi, 1.12pts/60, ---
Chara: 0:23toi, 0.00pts/60, ---



Rielly's right there, and at age 22 the 5th overall pick has been a #1 dman in the world championships, the world cup, and the nhl.

I think a lot of folks are reluctant to admit to the Leafs players being on the level of some of these guys because the team has been bad for so long - but the numbers don't lie...

 

[HockeyThoughts]

I don't see why we want Shattenkirk. He's always been a sheltered dman at even strength, with similar usage as Gardiner, but with only good not great numbers in those sheltered minutes (unlike Gardiner's great numbers in those sheltered minutes).

He doesn't play the PK anymore either.

But he is excellent on the PP. One of the best.

But do we really want to be paying a #1 dman salary to a guy who'll likely be our #4 dman at even strength, and not play on the PK?

Kevin Shattenkirk was averaging ~2mins per game on the PK as recently as last season.

He's still logging ~30 seconds per game this season but has seen Colton Parayko fill his primary role on the PK and they have elevated Shattenkirk's PP time instead.

The St. Louis Blues were top 3 in PK efficiency last season, and currently sit at #8 this season.

--> Shattenkirk has shown he can efficiently be a contributor on a strong penalty killing unit which is all that matters. How the St. Louis Blues utilize their strongest offensive defenseman in his contract season is irrelevant.

---

Shattenkirk has posted 40pts+ each of the past 5 full seasons - a mark Jake Gardiner has not hit even once in his 4 season NHL career.

Our top defenseman are on pace for 40, 35 and 33 points respectively. None of them are especially proficient with the man advantage or considered proven goal scorers from the blueline.

Shattenkirk is 3rd in goals and 5th in points among defenseman this season. He is tied for 1st in PPP.

--> He would immediately become our top offensive defenseman and the QB of our top PP unit. Both positions we are solely lacking.

--

As I previously stated, adding Shattenkirk is extremely reminiscent of the Chicago Blackhawks adding Brian Campbell. Both are/were smooth skating offensive defenseman in the prime of their careers.

Adding a defenseman of this caliber takes a huge load off our top 3 defenseman and puts them a in a position to truly succeed.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

I see what your saying, but isn't that a little simplistic? Didn't have the Hawks have several well above average defenders as well? Was that not a necessary component for their success?

Keith, Seabrook, Buff (for two playoff runs), Hjalmarsson....

We have no where near that quality.

We're much closer to the Stars than the Blackhawks.

Buff was a forward for them

Hard to know when your standing in a forest with all those trees obstructing your vision. LOL.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Kevin Shattenkirk was averaging ~2mins per game on the PK as recently as last season.

He's still logging ~30 seconds per game this season but has seen Colton Parayko fill his primary role on the PK and they have elevated Shattenkirk's PP time instead.

The St. Louis Blues were top 3 in PK efficiency last season, and currently sit at #8 this season.

--> Shattenkirk has shown he can efficiently be a contributor on a strong penalty killing unit which is all that matters. How the St. Louis Blues utilize their strongest offensive defenseman in his contract season is irrelevant.

---

Shattenkirk has posted 40pts+ each of the past 5 full seasons - a mark Jake Gardiner has not hit even once in his 4 season NHL career.

Our top defenseman are on pace for 40, 35 and 33 points respectively. None of them are especially proficient with the man advantage or considered proven goal scorers from the blueline.

Shattenkirk is 3rd in goals and 5th in points among defenseman this season. He is tied for 1st in PPP.

--> He would immediately become our top offensive defenseman and the QB of our top PP unit. Both positions we are solely lacking.

--

As I previously stated, adding Shattenkirk is extremely reminiscent of the Chicago Blackhawks adding Brian Campbell. Both are/were smooth skating offensive defenseman in the prime of their careers.

Adding a defenseman of this caliber takes a huge load off our top 3 defenseman and puts them a in a position to truly succeed.

Those all seem like good points to me, sounds like he'd be a very good fit for us. I can't help but think we'll be very interested in signing him when the time comes. If his demands aren't outrageous, I'd much rather spend the money on him than JVR.

 

[zeke]

Kevin Shattenkirk was averaging ~2mins per game on the PK as recently as last season.

He's still logging ~30 seconds per game this season but has seen Colton Parayko fill his primary role on the PK and they have elevated Shattenkirk's PP time instead.

The St. Louis Blues were top 3 in PK efficiency last season, and currently sit at #8 this season.

--> Shattenkirk has shown he can efficiently be a contributor on a strong penalty killing unit which is all that matters. How the St. Louis Blues utilize their strongest offensive defenseman in his contract season is irrelevant.

Last year was the only time Shattenkirk has ever made one of the top 2 PK units on the blues, and he was the #4 PK dman.

Shattenkirk has posted 40pts+ each of the past 5 full seasons - a mark Jake Gardiner has not hit even once in his 4 season NHL career.

Our top defenseman are on pace for 40, 35 and 33 points respectively. None of them are especially proficient with the man advantage or considered proven goal scorers from the blueline.

Shattenkirk is 3rd in goals and 5th in points among defenseman this season. He is tied for 1st in PPP.

--> He would immediately become our top offensive defenseman and the QB of our top PP unit. Both positions we are solely lacking.

Shattenkirk would be our best PP QB, no doubt, but that's it. At even strength, his offense is nothing special.

Even Strength 82gm Point Paces Last 4 years:

Rielly: 27 - 27 - 20 - 17
Jake: 26 - 19 - 17 - 20
Shatty: 25 - 19 - 28 - 18
Zaitsev: 24

--

As I previously stated, adding Shattenkirk is extremely reminiscent of the Chicago Blackhawks adding Brian Campbell. Both are/were smooth skating offensive defenseman in the prime of their careers.

Adding a defenseman of this caliber takes a huge load off our top 3 defenseman and puts them a in a position to truly succeed.

But how important was Campbell for the hawks, really? He was there for one cup, was a distant #4 in ice time during that playoff run at only 19:35 per game, and then was traded in the offseason and the hawks didn't miss a beat.

 

[BertCorbeau]

I think zeke brings a good point in that it's not just about bringing in Shattenkirk - it's more of a question of "do we want to give the Shatty the lucrative, long term deal he wants?" that is akin to a top level d-men?

 

[Gary Nylund]

I think zeke brings a good point in that it's not just about bringing in Shattenkirk - it's more of a question of "do we want to give the Shatty the lucrative, long term deal he wants?" that is akin to a top level d-men?

I think there's two things to consider:

1)
The usual - his age, UFA's commanding top dollar etc., do we really want to get into a bidding war? Is it worth paying a guy #1D money when he's not even a clear #2 on our team?

2)
What would signing him do to our overall salary structure? This is much more interesting to me, would love to be a fly on the wall and know how we are approaching this. We just signed Rielly and Kadri at very team friendly prices, if we pay Shattenkirk 7m or whatever it costs, what kind of impact would that have on for example the next Gardiner negotiations? Not good IMO.

I have a feeling that's the way it will go with Shatty, we'll kick the tires and find out where he's at but if he's not willing to sign here for a discount (and no reason he should) then we'll pass. We will continue to build from within, try to get all our guys to buy in and sign at team friendly prices to be part of this dynasty (yes I said dynasty), and we will not sign any major UFA's unless the right situation arises in the future when our key pieces are already signed to long term deals and the UFA would be the last piece in the puzzle.

 

[HockeyThoughts]

I think zeke brings a good point in that it's not just about bringing in Shattenkirk - it's more of a question of "do we want to give the Shatty the lucrative, long term deal he wants?" that is akin to a top level d-men?

Well the longest contract we can hand him this offseason is 7 years. He just turned 28 a couple of days ago. He will likely sign for 7M x 7 years taking him to age 35.

He has shown to be a consistent offensive performer practically his whole NHL career. His style of play points towards his play not falling off until his mid to late 30s, so I think we'll be pretty safe in regards to term.

Do we want to spend 7M on a defenseman who is:
-Premium handed (RHD)
-Solid at ES/PK
-Outstanding at PP
-Will undoubtedly be a top 4 defenseman throughout his tenure
-Will likely lead your defense in scoring year-in, year-out

You tell me?

Our defense currently consists of:
Morgan Rielly (LHD) (5M for 5 more years)
Jake Gardiner (LHD) (4M for 2 more years)
Nikita Zaitsev (RHD) (RFA --> Will likely get 3.5-4.5M)
Martin Marincin (LHD) (1.25M for 1 more year)
Connor Carrick (RHD) (.750K for 1 more year)

We have money to spend on the backend IMO.