Would any of you swap Darling for Allen from the Blues if we had to retain 50%?
What's your Goaltending for next year?
- Thread starter Drivebytrucker
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Meh
At 50%? No way. 1 to 1 swap just change it up for both guys - maybe.
- Dec 6, 2011
- 12,386
- 39,537
I probably would pending what other options are out there. I don't think a couple million will make or break us for a few years. Allen isn't anything great either, but obviously better than what we saw of Darling this year.
RodTheBawd
Registered User
- Oct 16, 2013
- 5,529
- 8,604
Takes one to know one, right?
So Can we hire a Cardboard cutout? Not sure how repairs would go but I think it might stop a few of the shots against 
My Special Purpose
Registered User
- Apr 8, 2008
- 8,151
- 21,787
Ward had the best season we've seen in several years by a goalie. Which is exactly the problem. We don't know what good goaltending looks like anymore. We literally hold our breath at every dump-in, every point shot, every bad-angle flip, because we've seen them all go in. Ward wasn't good, but compared to our other guy, he gave us a chance to win. But I think bringing Ward back is to accept below-average goaltending. We *should* be able to get more out of a $3 million backup. Ward's a great guy, and he wasn't the problem this season, but he's not the solution either, and we should move on.
No. This isn't the solution either. Allen changes very little. We still have no legit starting goalie and we're still a non-playoff team. And if we bring Ward back and go with Allen/Ward, we're looking at 2017-18 all over again. If the Canes are going to break out of their losing culture and reassert themselves as a real NHL team, we need to have real NHL goaltending. If that means making a very painful trade for Holtby or Grubauer, so be it. If it means bringing in two free agents to hopefully find one keeper, so be it. But anything short of that is a waste of time and money.
So Can we hire a Cardboard cutout? Not sure how repairs would go but I think it might stop a few of the shots against
If we're not going to solve the problem with an actual solution, why not just petition the NHL not to have to pay goalies and play 6-on-5 from the opening faceoff next season. We'd save all kinds of money not having to deal with goalies at all.
Stickpucker
Playmaka
- Jan 18, 2014
- 15,452
- 37,305
That sounds like grounds for seperation
FreshSeabass
Aho!
Canes
Registered User
Please Helvig be the answer to our prayers
Why not Booth? He's looked pretty good so far.
Canes
Registered User
He has as good of a chance as Helvig, if not better, since he is already playing pro hockey. None of our goaltending prospects seem to be top goalie prospects, so they all have a chance to battle it out the next few years. Helvig has had a nice rebound season after his season before this one. But they still all have a lot to prove. I also still hope we go hard after a college or European UFA to compete with whoever is on the NHL roster next season.
djboos22
Aho (insert pun)
Next year the duo of Darling/Ward will return.
I have more faith in Ward as the starter there even at 34.
We will not be making the playoffs again keeping the streak alive.
I have more faith in Ward as the starter there even at 34.
We will not be making the playoffs again keeping the streak alive.
DaveG
Noted Jerk
I'm hoping for
CAR: Francouz/Ward
CHA: Nedeljkovic/Booth
FLA: Helvig/Darling
CAR: Francouz/Ward
CHA: Nedeljkovic/Booth
FLA: Helvig/Darling
Well, if we are hoping....
CAR: Grubauer/Ward
CHA: Nedeljkovic/Booth
FLA: Helvig/Darling
Mindless musing time.
This is maybe my first time as a fan where I’m not naively and boastfully thinking I could figure out a solution to a Hurricanes problem.
When it comes to what to do with the goaltending this offseason, I am genuinely, genuinely stumped. There’s so many variables and factors that I’m honestly confused. But here’s how I would approach the problem.
If I were GM, I’d start with a spring project for Eric Tulsky. Back in March I would’ve sat him down and said “we are so totally lost. Please do something, anything, to find out if this is about our goaltenders, or if this is about our team.” And I’d set him to work.
We haven’t had a solution in goal for years, and yet Vegas has 3 different goalies with as good or better stats than Ward. The longer this goes on, the more “shrewd goaltending moves” turn into duds, the more I’m really wondering if it’s us. And I don’t think any major, long term moves can be made without doing that level of due diligence. We likely won’t get an “answer” one way or another, but at least some level of insight on this topic needs to inform this decision.
Why? Because I don’t want to go and blow multiple assets and/or a massive contract on Grubauer or Raanta or anyone else until we have a reasonable amount of certainty that it’s not something about us that ruins every goalie that wears our sweater. Add that to the fact that goalies are so volatile that even if it is just that we haven’t found the right guy, taking more “dart”-type fliers on guys will continue to set us back.
Then, once we have the output of what Tulsky does for us (just this variable alone branches out into a ton of different, “correct” next actions), we decide on Ward/Darling. This next one comes with a set of challenges as well. Buying out Darling would affect our cap pretty tremendously (esp since the buyout but, whatever it is, is a significantly higher portion of a team’s cap if they are a cap floor team vs a cap ceiling team). However, I don’t think his cap hit actually matters to the Canes all that much. We won’t be spending to the ceiling, or within $5 million of it most likely, so while it may end up that he’s a waste of a roster spot, depending on Dundon’s willingness to reach into his pockets he’s not automatically a drain on the cap. So do we give him another year? This is probably the riskiest choice of them all. If you give him another year, you either a) end up with the same tandem as last year by keeping Ward, b) get rid of Ward, but essentially come into next season with two “darts” (say, Raanta and Darling), or c) go and get a bonafide guy (say, Holtby), and end up spending >$10mil on goaltending next year. There is, however, a 4th option on the “keep Darling” branch, which would be re-sign Ward for 2 years, and go out and get a Raanta. Then, 3-way battle in camp, and if Darling doesn’t cut it, buy him out then, or retain 50% to a team that needs to take their own flier. Not sure if there are any cap repercussions to buying someone out during camp vs in the offseason (or if during camp is even allowed), but that would be the best of both worlds. Downside is that signing a guy like Raanta might be hard if you’ve got two guys under contract to compete, so this may have to be a trade situation.
The “get rid of Darling” branch is a little clearer cut once he’s gone, but deciding how to get rid of him is tough. Would we be willing to take salary back, like a Bickell trade? Might be tough since Darling’s got 3 years left. Retaining on him is tough - even at the max 50% it may be hard to convince someone to take him from us at $2mil without adding. Or is getting rid of this mistake worth giving up a Gauthier to someone like Arizona (I lean no, at least for this next year). Then there’s the cleaner but-out option, we cut our losses and forget this ever happened. That one’s really up to Dundon, so it’s hard to know how serious a possibility it is without being in the boardroom.
Once he’s gone, I think you re-sign Ward in a hurry. Why? Because Ward is the ultimate hedged bet against the idea I brought up earlier, that we just ruin goalies. It may be that anyone we bring in automatically loses .01 off their sv%, and if that’s the case having Ward “guarantees” (while there’s no such thing) that we at least get .905ish for half our games. Then, you fill the other spot with whoever, whether you want a big splash or another “1b” guy that you hope can take the next step, and if he can’t you kick the can another year down the line.
In Charlotte, I think you make Ned the bonafide #1 and don’t go out and sign a vet like Jeremy Smith. We’ve now got Ned, Booth, and Helvig all under contract, and you don’t want one of them playing backup in Florida. Ned seems to have turned it on, gained enough experience, and now we start to see whether the “take a goalie every draft” strategy comes to fruition.
All of these random musings add up to... I don’t know what the hell to do with this in the offseason. I think the process is in place to do due diligence to make a decision in-house, but I think there’s enough uncertainty from a fan perspective that anyone here being remotely confident that their favorite strategy will work is either blowing smoke or knows a hell of a lot more than us plebs.
This is maybe my first time as a fan where I’m not naively and boastfully thinking I could figure out a solution to a Hurricanes problem.
When it comes to what to do with the goaltending this offseason, I am genuinely, genuinely stumped. There’s so many variables and factors that I’m honestly confused. But here’s how I would approach the problem.
If I were GM, I’d start with a spring project for Eric Tulsky. Back in March I would’ve sat him down and said “we are so totally lost. Please do something, anything, to find out if this is about our goaltenders, or if this is about our team.” And I’d set him to work.
We haven’t had a solution in goal for years, and yet Vegas has 3 different goalies with as good or better stats than Ward. The longer this goes on, the more “shrewd goaltending moves” turn into duds, the more I’m really wondering if it’s us. And I don’t think any major, long term moves can be made without doing that level of due diligence. We likely won’t get an “answer” one way or another, but at least some level of insight on this topic needs to inform this decision.
Why? Because I don’t want to go and blow multiple assets and/or a massive contract on Grubauer or Raanta or anyone else until we have a reasonable amount of certainty that it’s not something about us that ruins every goalie that wears our sweater. Add that to the fact that goalies are so volatile that even if it is just that we haven’t found the right guy, taking more “dart”-type fliers on guys will continue to set us back.
Then, once we have the output of what Tulsky does for us (just this variable alone branches out into a ton of different, “correct” next actions), we decide on Ward/Darling. This next one comes with a set of challenges as well. Buying out Darling would affect our cap pretty tremendously (esp since the buyout but, whatever it is, is a significantly higher portion of a team’s cap if they are a cap floor team vs a cap ceiling team). However, I don’t think his cap hit actually matters to the Canes all that much. We won’t be spending to the ceiling, or within $5 million of it most likely, so while it may end up that he’s a waste of a roster spot, depending on Dundon’s willingness to reach into his pockets he’s not automatically a drain on the cap. So do we give him another year? This is probably the riskiest choice of them all. If you give him another year, you either a) end up with the same tandem as last year by keeping Ward, b) get rid of Ward, but essentially come into next season with two “darts” (say, Raanta and Darling), or c) go and get a bonafide guy (say, Holtby), and end up spending >$10mil on goaltending next year. There is, however, a 4th option on the “keep Darling” branch, which would be re-sign Ward for 2 years, and go out and get a Raanta. Then, 3-way battle in camp, and if Darling doesn’t cut it, buy him out then, or retain 50% to a team that needs to take their own flier. Not sure if there are any cap repercussions to buying someone out during camp vs in the offseason (or if during camp is even allowed), but that would be the best of both worlds. Downside is that signing a guy like Raanta might be hard if you’ve got two guys under contract to compete, so this may have to be a trade situation.
The “get rid of Darling” branch is a little clearer cut once he’s gone, but deciding how to get rid of him is tough. Would we be willing to take salary back, like a Bickell trade? Might be tough since Darling’s got 3 years left. Retaining on him is tough - even at the max 50% it may be hard to convince someone to take him from us at $2mil without adding. Or is getting rid of this mistake worth giving up a Gauthier to someone like Arizona (I lean no, at least for this next year). Then there’s the cleaner but-out option, we cut our losses and forget this ever happened. That one’s really up to Dundon, so it’s hard to know how serious a possibility it is without being in the boardroom.
Once he’s gone, I think you re-sign Ward in a hurry. Why? Because Ward is the ultimate hedged bet against the idea I brought up earlier, that we just ruin goalies. It may be that anyone we bring in automatically loses .01 off their sv%, and if that’s the case having Ward “guarantees” (while there’s no such thing) that we at least get .905ish for half our games. Then, you fill the other spot with whoever, whether you want a big splash or another “1b” guy that you hope can take the next step, and if he can’t you kick the can another year down the line.
In Charlotte, I think you make Ned the bonafide #1 and don’t go out and sign a vet like Jeremy Smith. We’ve now got Ned, Booth, and Helvig all under contract, and you don’t want one of them playing backup in Florida. Ned seems to have turned it on, gained enough experience, and now we start to see whether the “take a goalie every draft” strategy comes to fruition.
All of these random musings add up to... I don’t know what the hell to do with this in the offseason. I think the process is in place to do due diligence to make a decision in-house, but I think there’s enough uncertainty from a fan perspective that anyone here being remotely confident that their favorite strategy will work is either blowing smoke or knows a hell of a lot more than us plebs.
Well, if we are hoping....
CAR: Grubauer/Ward
CHA: Nedeljkovic/Booth
FLA: Helvig/Darling
Less than zero interest in paying what the Caps will demand for an in-division trade.
I like Gru. I don't like Gru enough to give up a top-4 D and a top-62 pick for him.
Unsustainable
Seth Jarvis is Elite
Apparently one of my friends talked to Darling for awhile tonight at dinner and the Canes have submitted a trade offer to Chicago for Darling and are expected to hear back in 24 hours.
DaveG
Noted Jerk
please please please please please please please.
Finlandia WOAT
js7.4x8fnmcf5070124
- May 23, 2010
- 24,195
- 23,878
Breakdowns
Meh
my exact reaction
Buenos Necas
lets go canes
They may be the only team actually willing to trade for him. That would be a great start to the offseason
- Oct 31, 2007
- 39,355
- 41,731
Can Chicago even afford to add Darling?
Breakdowns
Meh
Yes, they can always move players to IR
DaveG
Noted Jerk
Darling @50%, sure
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