What to do with a kid whose heart just isn't in to hockey...

[Yukon Joe]

Okay, so I think I've mentioned my 2013 kid before, but let me open a thread and see if anyone has any advice.

Let's call him Joe Jr - he was born in 2013 and this is his 4th year of hockey. First year was once a week practices, and at that age it's mostly just fun games anyways. Second year was once per week practices (with lots of games) and once per week games. Joe did okay with the practices, but during games had a couple kids miles better than he was who dominated the puck and Joe never really got much meaningful touches.

Third year was Covid. We paused for a couple of months over the winter, and never did play any games. It wasn't great.

So last summer he was ambivalent about playing hockey, but we urged him to give it another try under more normal circumstances (which he agreed to).

It has not gone well.

Before every hockey session we have the same conversation:

YukonJoe: Joe Jr, it's time to go to hockey!
JoeJr: *pout* Fine! *stomps away to get his stuff*
YJ: Hey Joe Jr, we don't have to go if you don't want to.
JJ: But I have to go!
YJ: No you don't. Nobody said you have to go to hockey. If you don't want to go we won't go. We can just stay home.
JJ: But I have to go!
YJ: No you don't. In fact I'm not going to take you if you don't want to go.
JJ: *very long pause* Fine, I want to go to hockey.

When we get to hockey, he's okay in practice. He's following the directions and doing the drills (and honestly it's not that he's a bad skater). But when it comes to games (he plays half-ice) it's just obvious he's not really into it. He just kind of follows the puck around slowly. I've had other coaches ask me about Joe Jr (I'm an assistant coach), they tried giving him pep talks, I've given him pep talks, tried to tell him where to go, some strategies, etc.

Last week one of the other coaches just told him not to skate anywhere - just stand in front of the other team's net, and got our better players to feed him the puck for the last 10 minutes. It worked in that he got some touches, but he didn't score and he burst into tears when the buzzer went off.

I even had one of the other kids come up to me and ask "Coach, does Joe Jr want to play hockey"?

And that's the thing - I don't know if he does. If you ask him he'll say he does. But he never shows any interest in hockey on his own - never plays mini-sticks, never watches it, doesn't play NHL on Playstation, doesn't want to play road hockey if asked. And his body language out on the ice shows a total lack of interest.

So what do I do here fellow hockey parents? Go ahead and criticize me for urging him to try hockey this year all you want, but that is now water under the bridge. As I see it the three options I've come up with are:

1. Just keep doing what we're doing (which doesn't seem like it's having much fun)
2. Just show up for practices, or
3. Decide for him he's not playing.

Yesterday we had a practice, complete with a version of the above conversation. The practice went okay, but for the last 25 minutes the coach wanted to scrimmage (which I didn't think was a very effective use of practice time, but whatever). I let Joe Jr play for a few minutes (again slowly follow the puck around), but then pulled him aside and said he had a really good practice but he didn't need to scrimmage so we were going home. He didn't really fight me, but he said he was having fun, and that the other kids would think he's weird for leaving early. And at home he complained to his mom that I 'wouldn't let him play hockey'.


Any ideas guys and gals? 95% sure he's not playing next year barring a sudden change of heart on his part, but we still have 6 weeks to go in this season.

Click to read more...

 

[kook10]

Sounds a little like my daughter. I play and coached in-house level with our local high school. She loved coming out and joining the practices, and skating with the older kids but never really showed any interest off ice and never worked on any skills. In fact she would avoid working on anything tough (stickhandling/shooting), and over the course of several years played in youth in-house leagues and didn't get better.

After the first season I couldn't coach her because she couldn't accept coaching or criticism from me. She would complain about going to practice and games, but would still be proud that she played hockey, would want to sign up, but eventually said she only wants to play for fun at the lowest level. She has very little natural competitive spirit or motivation to work on it. I just tired of her having a shit fit when I gave her feedback (I would even ask "is it ok if I tell you something?"). On the other hand it is something that allows her to be/do something different (I'm in CA so very few girls play) and something that connects her with me. At the end of the day I think it has a lot to do with being an only child and not having a sibling to compete with or to measure against.

These days I just defer to her, keep my mouth shut, and ask if she had fun. It is tough because I think somewhere in there she is still looking for approval. That said, she has enough stuff going on with other sports and hobbies that eventually some will win and some will lose. As far as I can see though, she will never flip a switch and end up playing club or anything like that. It's not worth fighting over, and we both sort of recognize it at this point.

I think the message your kid receives from leaving the ice early or quitting is that he doesn't belong there and possibly that you are embarrassed by his performance. It sounds like he might already have some piece of him playing just to please/not disappoint you and that is the toughest thing to unwind. I think for me it was good to end up talking about this openly, but also reinforcing that your relationship is more important but separate from the game and as such the commitment to the team needs to be honored. Then take a hands off approach and let him come to his own conclusions about continuing or not. You might be surprised - a lot of times it comes to the kid feeling control and agency over themself. Playing shitty can be a form of rebellion

 

[Yukon Joe]

@kook10 yeah there's definitely an element of him thinking he has to play to please me and his mom. Both of his brothers play, as do I. And he's also caught in a confidence downward spiral - he feels like he isn't any good, so he doesn't really try in the game, which of course makes it true he isn't very good. My hope at the start of the season is he would build up some confidence in his game and have fun, but based on the strength of his skating alone he was tiered up way too high for his actual abilities.

 

[Marotte Marauder]

Both of his brothers play, as do I.

...and you don't know how to make it fun for your son? Let that sink in a while.

Is there pond hockey by you that all 4 of you could play at?
Do you watch hockey games together and have fun?

Yes, he has to go to hockey and finish the season. Teach him responsibility, to his coach, team mates and his parents who paid a bundle for the season. It will also teach hime to give it all he's got and then, if it's not for him no big deal move on to another activity.

 

[GreatSaveEssensa]

Sounds like you have the makings of a goalie on your hands.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Gotta be a bit careful at this age, because it's the very first spark of a kid's sense that they can control the world around them.

As a result, sometimes they project control onto things in a way that gives them a sense of power, without any idea how to use that power constructively.

This:

YukonJoe: Joe Jr, it's time to go to hockey!
JoeJr: *pout* Fine! *stomps away to get his stuff*
YJ: Hey Joe Jr, we don't have to go if you don't want to.
JJ: But I have to go!
YJ: No you don't. Nobody said you have to go to hockey. If you don't want to go we won't go. We can just stay home.
JJ: But I have to go!
YJ: No you don't. In fact I'm not going to take you if you don't want to go.
JJ: *very long pause* Fine, I want to go to hockey.

Has a pretty strong vibe of a kid who wants to have control over the decision to go to hockey. That's not actually a hockey issue at all, it's a kid-growing-up issue.

On the other hand, this:

I even had one of the other kids come up to me and ask "Coach, does Joe Jr want to play hockey"?

And that's the thing - I don't know if he does. If you ask him he'll say he does. But he never shows any interest in hockey on his own - never plays mini-sticks, never watches it, doesn't play NHL on Playstation, doesn't want to play road hockey if asked. And his body language out on the ice shows a total lack of interest.

Has the vibe of a kid who is struggling with forming an identity relative to his dad. Not interested in participating in X, but also not willing to cross the line of withdrawing from X and losing that connection.

Tough situation. Without knowing any more about the life context, I would say stop attending organized hockey and be clear that the reason you're stopping is that he's visibly uninterested in participating. It's a life lesson that people, and especially your parents, aren't going to chauffeur you around to expensive time-consuming events if you're not really engaging. At that point, he can go one of two ways: either get desperate for the experience and fully engage, or agree that it's not really that important and let it go. Either way, you've made the right decision. But it really does require taking a full season off... this can't be an out-this-weekend kind of thing. Again, this is not about hockey, it's about Jr understanding the consequences of choosing to do something or not. Not engaging means the opportunity disappears. If it's important to him, he'll fight hard to get it back and that in itself is a constructive lesson about choice.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Sounds like you have the makings of a goalie on your hands.

He plays U9 and anyone who wants can play goalie - we don't have set goaltenders. About half the team have zero interest in being in goal, and we rotate through the other half of the kids. Joe Jr's been in net 2-3 times. I could give a longer response but he thought it was okay - didn't hate it but didn't love it. Last time I asked him if he wanted to be goalie for his next game (there was an opening in the schedule) he said "no thanks". He is scheduled to be in net for at least one more practice and game. I'd be just fine if he wanted to be a goalie. Next year you have to commit to being a goalie full time.

Tough situation. Without knowing any more about the life context, I would say stop attending organized hockey and be clear that the reason you're stopping is that he's visibly uninterested in participating. It's a life lesson that people, and especially your parents, aren't going to chauffeur you around to expensive time-consuming events if you're not really engaging. At that point, he can go one of two ways: either get desperate for the experience and fully engage, or agree that it's not really that important and let it go. Either way, you've made the right decision. But it really does require taking a full season off... this can't be an out-this-weekend kind of thing. Again, this is not about hockey, it's about Jr understanding the consequences of choosing to do something or not. Not engaging means the opportunity disappears. If it's important to him, he'll fight hard to get it back and that in itself is a constructive lesson about choice.

I've tried the gentle negative-reinforcement too. "Joe Jr, you're not even sweaty after your games. I need you to be sweaty or we won't be playing hockey". If I really emphasize "being sweaty" before a game he'll work a little harder and work up a bit of a sweat, but it goes away by next game unless I emphasize it.

And I know repetition is part of learning, but the sheer number of times I've told him to skate hard, be sweaty, and have "two hands on your stick" I feel has to be frustrating for him to keep constantly hearing it.

I agree life is all about the choices you make. What I want Joe Jr to do is either A: chose to play hockey and commit to it, or B: chose to not play hockey. Either choice is fine to me. It's him straddling the "well I'll say I want to play hockey but not really put any effort into it" that drives me crazy.

 

[Cams]

Boy does this situation sound like what I went through with my daughter.

I play, and by the time she got to 4 or 5 she wanted to play. We got her skates and just got her learning the basics of skating. Age 6 or 7 comes along and we register for house league (boys hockey, but some girls were playing as well - she didn't want to play in the girl league). The kids in the house league were much better, so bumped her down a level for 1 year. Great decision. She learned a lot, had a ton of fun and got a lot better. The next year she is back at her age level, still boys hockey....doing good, having fun, coaches gave great feedback. Something she really looked forward to doing. By the time she was 8 or 9 she was a smaller, but feisty player and was a middle of the pack player. That offseason she wanted to do a power skating camp, so sure we signed her up and she again did really well, and wow did it help. Next season comes along and they are doing the house league practices and forming of teams. About this time get a call from the travel coach asking if she wants to go to a practice or two and then she gets AP'd (affiliate player). Fantastic - confidence is at a high, doing really well. Never got a call from the coach though to even practice with the team so that was a bummer in a way.

Then we figured why not try girls hockey for a year...... signed her up, and I was an assistant coach this year. Again....she was one of the better players at house league. Then we had a disaster of drama between the coaches and convenor and league so everyone of our team decided to quit the league. Coaches/parents pitched in and rented the ice and had practices/games for the rest of the season. Totally a new thread could be made on this! Back to boys house league.

Once the teenage years came along - she is doing good each year, I was assistant coach one more year. The next year.......my wife and I had become tight with money, so luckily grandma to the rescue...paid her league fees ($500 ish CDN). Started to not really care to work hard in practice....would "get hurt" or "my knee hurts", and basically didn't want to go to practice. Keep in mind, I am head coach, my wife is trainer and "manager", plus 2 other parents are assistants. Our team is at the top, but....coaches kid doesn't really participate in practice, but wants to play games....... Grandparents come to watch, but their star player isn't playing....... As a parent and the coach this is getting to be stressful and embarassing....even to the point of one of the assistants pulling as aside and asking something is going on at home and other parents/players are asking questions..... awkward big time.

to make long story short (too late eh?)..... after much talking and saying that if you don't practice you can't just play in the games - it's not fair to yourself, your team and your coaches (parents). Turns out it was at least 2 years of "didn't want to upset you by saying I don't to play".

 

[Yukon Joe]

to make long story short (too late eh?)..... after much talking and saying that if you don't practice you can't just play in the games - it's not fair to yourself, your team and your coaches (parents). Turns out it was at least 2 years of "didn't want to upset you by saying I don't to play".

Thanks for this. It does sound familiar.

Except as hard as it was for a teenager to not want to disappoint mom and dad, I'm dealing with an 8 year old.

And of course in part he's right - part of me would be sad if he didn't want to play hockey. I like being a hockey dad, being one of the coaches, hanging out at the rink. And already I wonder much longer my oldest will want to play as it gets more and more competitive (although he loves it right now), and my middle kid I could see him calling it quits some year as well (he'd been somewhat indifferent to it in years before, but has really really enjoyed this year - but will it last).

But what Joe Jr doesn't get at his age is that he needs to do what makes him happy, not what makes his dad happy, and that in the end I'd be much happier seeing him playing, I dunno, table tennis* and having a blast doing it, rather than playing hockey and being miserable.



*We take in exchange students. This year we have one from Germany who plays competitive table tennis, so I helped him find a competitive league in Edmonton for him to play in. Even after he's been with us for months it still seems like a stupid sport to me, but this kid really really enjoys it so good for him.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Was just going through another thread of mine. I wrote the following one year ago:

My youngest is the one that has really opened my eyes this year. He's not a great player, but this is his first year where he's tiered with other players of his skill level. Now that he's not being clearly outclassed by other kids he's really flourishing.

But my middle kid... We asked him in the spring about going into hockey - he said yes. We asked him in the fall about playing hockey - he said he wanted to. We gave him the choice to play something else - he said no I'll play hockey. But when he's out there he's usually just looks bored and uninterested most of the time. He's not trying very hard in his practices, only skating at maybe 50% speed, not paying much attention to the coaches. Last year during games (no games yet this year) I'd repeatedly have to tell him just simple things like "two hands on your stick" and "pay attention to the puck".

My middle kid is one year older than Joe Jr, so last year he's the same age Joe Jr is now. My description of Middle Kid sounds a lot like Joe Jr (the huge difference was one year ago we didn't play any games all season). But Middle Kid is having a phenomenal year this year. And from my description of Joe Jr - he's back to being outclassed by the other kids on his team this year.

I dunno.

 

[Cams]

I get the feeling he really doesn't want to play. Just doesn't want to tell you that, might feel he's letting you down.

Remember....just because you play/played, and your other 2 boys play, doesn't mean hockey is for him. I am sure there are a lot of other activities he may be interested in, and it may not sports related. That's fine too.

My sister's boy (Mom and Dad both played hockey, Mom still does) had no interest whatsoever in hockey. My Dad got him skates when he was young, we all thought he would take it up, but for him it wasn't something he wanted to do. Instead he got involved in bowling and tae kwan do or something like that, and now at 16 he is very good at both.

If, especially at 8 years old, something isn't fun for a kid, then it becomes more of a task/chore than something they take pride in and enjoy.

 

[Pablo Messier]

I think Jr has as much interest in hockey as you do in ping pong. Let it go.

 

[ChuckLefley]

You had a whole thread about how to motivate your kids and didn’t want to hear anything that wasn’t telling you what you were doing was right. As @Cams said, it sounds like he doesn’t want to play, but is afraid to tell you.

 

[Yukon Joe]

I get the feeling he really doesn't want to play. Just doesn't want to tell you that, might feel he's letting you down.

Remember....just because you play/played, and your other 2 boys play, doesn't mean hockey is for him. I am sure there are a lot of other activities he may be interested in, and it may not sports related. That's fine too.

So I totally agree. I think he doesn't enjoy it, but doesn't want to let us down.

But I need him to take ownership of that decision. If I just stop taking him to hockey he's going to resent it, either that "I wouldn't let him play hockey", or that he'll feel embarrassed that he isn't good enough to play hockey.

We might try tae kwon do. Last spring we did a free lesson that he really enjoyed and we were going to sign him up. But then we had yet another Covid wave and we put it off.

I will say that while he can do any activity he wants, I do want him doing some kind of sports or athletic activity, just because physical fitness is an important life habit to build.

 

[Yukon Joe]

You had a whole thread about how to motivate your kids and didn’t want to hear anything that wasn’t telling you what you were doing was right. As @Cams said, it sounds like he doesn’t want to play, but is afraid to tell you.

I knew you'd chime in.

I agree with your assessment. He doesn't want to play but doesn't want to admit it to me and his mom.

But what do I do in this situation? I've told him dozens of times he doesn't need to go to hockey if he doesn't want to. But he insists on going, all while looking miserable.

 

[tarheelhockey]

So I totally agree. I think he doesn't enjoy it, but doesn't want to let us down.

But I need him to take ownership of that decision. If I just stop taking him to hockey he's going to resent it, either that "I wouldn't let him play hockey", or that he'll feel embarrassed that he isn't good enough to play hockey.

We might try tae kwon do. Last spring we did a free lesson that he really enjoyed and we were going to sign him up. But then we had yet another Covid wave and we put it off.

I will say that while he can do any activity he wants, I do want him doing some kind of sports or athletic activity, just because physical fitness is an important life habit to build.

Just a thought, but maybe try having him play in a less formal/structured environment? I may have missed it above, but I can't tell whether he's currently in house-league or a more competitive tier. If there's an option to put him in a lower house level, maybe he would enjoy more time for free play as opposed to training. If he's already in house, maybe do a weekly stick-and-puck rather than "playing hockey" for a season.

The vast vast majority of kids his age just want to play, without being critiqued or focusing much on skill building. It would be odd for him to still be resentful if you're basically just saying 'go play and have fun'.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Just a thought, but maybe try having him play in a less formal/structured environment? I may have missed it above, but I can't tell whether he's currently in house-league or a more competitive tier. If there's an option to put him in a lower house level, maybe he would enjoy more time for free play as opposed to training. If he's already in house, maybe do a weekly stick-and-puck rather than "playing hockey" for a season.

The vast vast majority of kids his age just want to play, without being critiqued or focusing much on skill building. It would be odd for him to still be resentful if you're basically just saying 'go play and have fun'.

The language is a little different here. There is a "rec league" for minor hockey - games are once per week, no practices - and no tiering.

Joe Jr. is in the next level up - community hockey - one games per week, plus one practice per week. This is tiered.

There is also a level above that - development. You pay more money and get more practices. Also tiered.

So we figured community would be perfect for him. I don't like the idea of never practicing, and the idea of no tiering meant there could be some really good kids. But we didn't want the extra pressure of development.

The problem (I think) was the tiering at the start of the year. It was done 100% based on skating. Joe Jr is a good skater - he just has no hockey sense (or drive). So he tiered way up to tier 2 (he was tier 6 last year), and he's outclassed.

But I think that's water under the bridge. I think hockey's been poisoned for him, which makes me very sad but c'est la vie. Next year we'll probably do something else.

I just don't know what to do for the next 6 weeks of this hockey season. Joe Jr already gave a big sigh when I mentioned he had hockey this weekend.

 

[Marotte Marauder]

I just don't know what to do for the next 6 weeks of this hockey season

You teach him to honor his commitments.

He'll thank you down the road.

 

[Plante]

Try getting him a chance to play with some kids who were more around his skill level and let him dominate?

It just might be a lot of insecurities compounded on top of each other, and if he sees that he is capable of doing well under certain conditions then it might motivate him.

Worked for me anyway, and I managed to keep playing till Jr B before life took over.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Sounds like he wants to play but he's not as good as the rest of his peers.

Maybe work with him on hockey skills at home and build up his confidence.

Kobe Bryant did the math, he practiced more than any other kid so that he became exponentially better.

Show him this video maybe.

 

[smoneil]

Is there a way to address it that doesn't center "hockey"? I agree with the poster who said that, for this season, the biggest thing is to teach him to honor his commitment. But once the hockey season is over, why not approach him and say something as simple as "hey bud, I've been thinking of trying something new, but I've got no idea what to pick. Any ideas of something we can pick up together?" Maybe it's skiing, or an art class, or an acting class, or any number of different possibilities (though God help you if it's dance. All three of my nieces did dance, and those recitals are about 15 years long, haha). But if you frame it as you wanting to start a new hobby with him as opposed to getting him to verbalize a rejection of your hobby, it might lead to a bit more communication from him.

 

[Yukon Joe]

This weekend Joe Jr was scheduled to be a goalie for practice. He didn't show any real enthusiasm, but we got him all dressed and he did the practice.

We scrimmaged for the last 10-15 minutes again. One of the other kids came up to me (and I'm not sure if he knows Joe Jr is my kid or not) saying "the goalie isn't doing anything. He's just standing there". I told him he should be nicer to someone else on his team, but Jr wasn't doing a whole lot in goal - he'd just poke at the puck with his stick, never going down into a butterfly.

After practice he did tell his head coach he didn't want to be goalie for next week's game, so at least he found his voice for that.

 

[Perennial]

Heart transplant...

 

[damack]

Try dropping him off and leaving.

I've seen some kids act completely different when their parents aren't there.

At 9 years old, if he's not having fun it's not worth being there. Does he like any other sports?

 

[tarheelhockey]

Sounds like he wants to play but he's not as good as the rest of his peers.

Maybe work with him on hockey skills at home and build up his confidence.

Kobe Bryant did the math, he practiced more than any other kid so that he became exponentially better.

Show him this video maybe.

I would actually go in the other direction. It doesn't sound like he has any real interest in Serious Hockey, practicing relentlessly, or building up skill set.

People become a Kobe Bryant when they become obsessed with something. When a kid is outside at 9pm shooting on an empty rink, that's when you pour on the coaching/inspiration and start thinking about his potential ceiling as a competitive player.

Joe Jr is clearly not obsessed with hockey. At this point it's a question of whether he's enjoying it at all, or just going through the motions (it really sounds like the latter). If he's not particularly interested in the game and he's also not having fun, he's not going to respond very well to coaching.