What kind of a team are the Jackets really?

[SuperGenius]

Great post, Forepar.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Jackets season in 4 stages:

0-2-0 OMG, SOJ!

11-3-4 Hey, they've rebounded, they are in the hunt. Are they for real?...when actually, they had so many games in hand that they were nicely above the PO bar at that point, just the actual points just showed them right at the bar.

16-0 OMG, we are the best team in the league...going to win President's Cup, can't wait for home ice in playoffs. How dare anyone criticize the basis of our success.

7-9-1 OMG, SOJ.


I have no idea when the current lull breaks, but it will. Probably not going to get 2nd spot in Metro, and 1st spot in Metro is getting out of reach. If you had said before season started, or even after the 11-3-4 stretch that CBJ would be fighting for 3/4 spot in Metro, with 100+ points likely, with the 4 spot being the #1 WC, most of us would have jumped for joy x3.

The fact that they went 27-3-3 was quite a feat, maybe even moreso than the the 16-game streak, as far as showing us what they COULD be. I recall thinking that at 11-5-4, with the first 2 games looking like 2015-16, that if they could somehow keep at 11-5-4 pace that would be 104 points. Guess what...they are 23-9-1 since then, which includes the current 7-9-1 skid.

They are not the most talented team in the NHL, not in top 3.
They are not the best team in the NHL, currently top 4 in points, probably top 8/10 all things considered, better than that when 72 is hot, but in a confidence/effort spin.
They are a bit too fragile - I had the same feeling CR did when CBJ blew the Ranger game in early January, cold sweat flashback to game 1 of 2015-16 season.

But this team can and has ramped it up against better opponents, even during this recent skid. Prior CBJ teams could not do that. They are not the CBJ of old, the are the CBJ of YOUNG (as in too young to not get caught up in the emotional stuff, the highs of playing PIT and NYR, the lows of playing VAN to less than a full house). I am not predicting a complete turnaround, but if they go 6-4 or 6-3-1 every ten games here out, they would be considered a solid team (even without the streak). They are still learning how to do that, even though there season record overall is above that pace. Going 4-3 every 7 games in PO wins series, even Cups. Going 1-4, followed by 6-0 means you lost the first round and won the first 6 preseason games the following year.

I almost think Torts likes the mystery of games like Sat v NJD and Thurs vs VAN - it puts his YOUNG team in adversity and he believes he can coach them out of it. If they had continued hot, he was worried how would they react to be being down 1-2 or even 1-3 in a PO series...he is getting a chance to find out early, and the kids are learning. It may be that the learning is NOT about this year's PO, but next season and next season's PO. They may not make it all the way back to solid this year, but they likely will still get in the PO, and there is so much positive and so much learning going on ... hard to comprehend that at times. I get as ****** off as EDM or even MFRONE at some of the play recently. The two Murray plays on Thurs almost had me in the ER, and had me forgetting the progress he's been showing for a while. But overall, what a great spot they are in... whether that means a PO run this year or a quick exit that creates even more fire for next year...and as they get older, they won't need as much of that fire, just consistent professionalism.

Ramblings from an old guy (sorry OG), just trying to enjoy the ride without getting too frustrated...some of this ramble is to myself, as I have started to become unglued at times the past few games. Gave myself a talking too after Thursday's game to relax a little. I don't think they will completely choke their wonderful start away, but I understand the angst many have (me included). My optimism is that they had that 11-3-3 stretch right before the 16-0 stretch. 33 games is more than just a hot streak. This 7-9-1 spin is the same number of games as that 11-3-3 stretch - The are somewhere between those two (18-12-4 would be mathematically precise), which is the equivalent to 96-97 points. That is a slightly above-average team, with so much youth and potential for the future. This wasn't supposed to be THE year; I hope it still is, but don't expect it...but future looks so much better than before.

Nope. Long post doesn't make easy, clean conclusion about what this team is. Invaled. Next!

 

[TaketheCannoli]

Mediocure team overall (meaning right at/below the playoff line) - average to me would be a team that is usually a playoff team with more than half the teams qualifying each year. They have the ability to have some incredible hot streaks, which is somewhat due to goaltending (when Bob is on he is one of the best) and streaky forwards.
The defense was much better earlier this year but Savard getting hurt and Wereneski wearing down makes them pretty average right now.

I believe their recent play since the streak is unsustainable. They can't play that poorly long term.

I think this is a 105-109 point team. A good team, and not a 115-120 pt. Presidents trophy contender. They are a couple years and players away from that level.

 

[Viqsi]

If I had to sum it up in one sentence... we've got an overall good team that can surprise folks.

Otherwise, I hereby endorse Forepar's assessment.

 

[Ar-too]

What kind of a team are the Jackets? The best Jackets team ever. That's all that matters.

 

[CBJfan4evr]

What kind of team are the Jackets...

They are young and growing in front of our eyes. Just like everyone in life they have their strengths and weaknesses. The most important thing is that the trajectory is up. Enjoy the process, the ups and downs. It's all part of building the tradition. Over in Pittsburgh for 50 year Alumni night; some of the flashbacks they showed resonated with me... Player who scored winning goal to win their first ever playoff series, Two guys dressed as witch doctors performing a ceremony on the ice to remove a playoff losing curse, Animated craziness from a player. Bottom line, win or lose have a good time and enjoy the ride.

 

[Jackets16]

A good one that will soon be a really good one. We aren't as good as we were playing when we were on the big winning streak and we aren't as bad as we are playing right now. We are somewhere in the middle and it is actually a good thing we aren't playing great now. It gives us time to start playing good right as the playoffs start.

 

[LetsGOJackets!!]

Not as educated in Hockey as all of you folks but I do have an opinion:

I remember when the big six was the Canadians and everyone else. Remember when the Flyers were the bullies, and when the Islanders were SCC. Lived through the dominance of the Oil, and then of the Wings, Avs. and then the Pens.

My point is that every great team rose from mediocrity.. generally on the backs of a great goalie, great defense or an offensive superstar/ superstars. Broduer and Stevens come to mind, Mario and Jagr, Gretzky Kuri, Messier, Coffey and Fuhr. Sakic Forsberg and Roy

We have a very good young hockey team, no stars yet that I can tell will carry the team (but hoping Bob can), We have time yet this season and the talent/ coaching to put together another streak.. I'm just hoping it is in the playoffs.

Magical things can happen in the playoffs when a goalie gets hot, or a shooter starts to pot a higher % of shots.

Lets give them a chance to grow.. give them a chance to get hungry for it and grow some beards.

What we don't have is a lot 2-1 closely played games (win or lose). the Jackets tend to more extremes - Vancouver being a classic example we outshot them but could not score.. this happens. LETS GO JACKETS!!!!

 

[major major]

I'll agree LGJ. And I also hope our next 16 game win streak is in the playoffs.

I will say I think the Jackets do have some emerging stars, the kind you talked about being the backbone of great teams. Werenski - Jones have a chance to become the best D tandem since Macinnis - Pronger.

 

[LetsGOJackets!!]

I'll agree LGJ. And I also hope our next 16 game win streak is in the playoffs.

I will say I think the Jackets do have some emerging stars, the kind you talked about being the backbone of great teams. Werenski - Jones have a chance to become the best D tandem since Macinnis - Pronger.

Total agreement on this!!

 

[blahblah]

I believe their recent play since the streak is unsustainable. They can't play that poorly long term.

And yet this did all last season. I'm not saying they will, but this team has proven that there is no floor.

 

[LetsGOJackets!!]

And yet this did all last season. I'm not saying they will, but this team has proven that there is no floor.

Since the streak Bob was out a number of games with the flu.. Nuttivara and Savard missed quite a few of the same games, with Savard missing 8 of the last 9 before Saturday. We do not have a lot of experienced depth. Korpi lost a couple games.. and Savard is critical to our defense.. he is a very calming force out there. Clearly things are not always perfect, & I have not heard the team make excuses but this team will not play as consistently bad as they did last year. Do you really think that, and if you do I have to ask if you watch every game. They played bad vs Jersey & then Vancouver but looked good beating the Wings. Just my opinion.. and I value yours so please explain.

 

[Old Guy]

I'm still enjoying this season way more than last season, and many others in the past.

If they do a total face plant I'll be disappointed, but still will have enjoyed the season. My biggest fear now is the Jackets have their "October in March".

Young teams are typically wildly inconsistent. Why should this troupe be immune? I really like the talent and depth. My belief is that there are other young players that will take that Savard/Wennberg growth step we have seen this year.

 

[Forepar]

Nope. Long post doesn't make easy, clean conclusion about what this team is. Invaled. Next!

Ok then.

They suck.
No they don't.
No, they really don't suck. They are great.
Yes, they really do suck - again.

They don't suck as much as they do now, and they aren't as good as 16-0.

Better, DSL?

All in good fun.

 

[EDM]

I find it very interesting that there is this story out there that the team asked for a meeting with Torts to tell him they would like him to be more helpful in addressing their struggles. IF IT IS TRUE, I agree with the team 100%. IMHO, Torts has been really AWOL during this struggle just making vague, subjective comments about motivation, etc. To me it seems the league has made some adjustments to the game plan the Jackets were using during the streak. And we have not adjusted to those adjustments. THAT is a coaching issue. And it needs to be looked at. Glad players spoke up.

 

[major major]

I find it very interesting that there is this story out there that the team asked for a meeting with Torts to tell him they would like him to be more helpful in addressing their struggles. IF IT IS TRUE, I agree with the team 100%. IMHO, Torts has been really AWOL during this struggle just making vague, subjective comments about motivation, etc. To me it seems the league has made some adjustments to the game plan the Jackets were using during the streak. And we have not adjusted to those adjustments. THAT is a coaching issue. And it needs to be looked at. Glad players spoke up.

"More helpful" wasn't what was reported. It was "more positive".

In either case the story is probably just overblown reporting on a routine meeting.

Torts has been clear that there isn't a gameplan problem, but a motivation problem. I'm not sure he's wrong about that.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

I find it very interesting that there is this story out there that the team asked for a meeting with Torts to tell him they would like him to be more helpful in addressing their struggles. IF IT IS TRUE, I agree with the team 100%. IMHO, Torts has been really AWOL during this struggle just making vague, subjective comments about motivation, etc. To me it seems the league has made some adjustments to the game plan the Jackets were using during the streak. And we have not adjusted to those adjustments. THAT is a coaching issue. And it needs to be looked at. Glad players spoke up.

Wrong. Very wrong.

If this core of players has "tuned out" a second coach-one who has a completely different personality than Richards- in a season and a half, then it's on them. Period.

I doubt that's happened.

The nervous nellies on this board are quite amusing. The CBJ have played .500 hockey since the streak ended. That's just about right for a team of this talent level. They're going to have stretches where they play average hockey, because they're an average hockey team in a lot of ways. The good news is that when they click, they can be a very good hockey team. Hopefully that "click" will come back sooner rather than later. Patience is a virtue, it has been said.

 

[Nordique]

Not as educated in Hockey as all of you folks but I do have an opinion:

I remember when the big six was the Canadians and everyone else. Remember when the Flyers were the bullies, and when the Islanders were SCC. Lived through the dominance of the Oil, and then of the Wings, Avs. and then the Pens.

My point is that every great team rose from mediocrity.. generally on the backs of a great goalie, great defense or an offensive superstar/ superstars. Broduer and Stevens come to mind, Mario and Jagr, Gretzky Kuri, Messier, Coffey and Fuhr. Sakic Forsberg and Roy

We have a very good young hockey team, no stars yet that I can tell will carry the team (but hoping Bob can), We have time yet this season and the talent/ coaching to put together another streak.. I'm just hoping it is in the playoffs.

Magical things can happen in the playoffs when a goalie gets hot, or a shooter starts to pot a higher % of shots.

Lets give them a chance to grow.. give them a chance to get hungry for it and grow some beards.

What we don't have is a lot 2-1 closely played games (win or lose). the Jackets tend to more extremes - Vancouver being a classic example we outshot them but could not score.. this happens. LETS GO JACKETS!!!!

This.

I'd add that all teams go through cycles within every season...the Rangers right now are riding high...we are trying to just put two wins together and get back on top of our game.

Should be a fun week.

 

[Heinze 57]

I think the streak was so fun and the team was playing so well that many of us forgot what it's supposed to be like in an NHL season. Good teams have bad stretches every year and ours right now isn't really that troubling to me. I might be remembering this wrong, but I think one of the SC winning Blackhawks teams had an 8 game losing streak at one point.

January and February are always the dog days of the NHL calendar. The playoff teams are pretty much set and yet we still have to wait 2 more months until the real action begins. It's a long season and I know the players have to be feeling that right now.

I'm not getting too wrapped up in the losses as long as we're banking points here and there. We have 28 games left. We need 20 more points and then we get to watch our team in the playoffs for the third time. Hopefully by then they're back in winning form and we don't have any significant injuries. Considering where we were at the start of the season, I'm thrilled with any postseason action.

 

[Cowumbus]

8-9-1 since the 16 game winning streak. alarming

 

[JacketsFanWest]

I know a lot of fans are harping on the team's lack of consistent effort, but what typically happens with "sophomore slumps" is teams figure out how to stop a player. In the period since the streak, opposing teams have figured out the Jackets.

What's necessary for a player to get out of a sophomore slump is to take their game to the next level. Some times that can happen, some times it can't. But it's a struggle for each player to figure out how to elevate their game.

What has happen to other Jackets teams is they struggle and start blaming everyone else - the coach, teammates, etc. Everything had been going great and now someone else wants them to change what was working.

How Torts approaches the team and individual players on how to improve is important. The way the meeting has been reported in the media makes the players sound like Special Snowflakes who don't want to be criticized. The challenge is how to deal with players who keep trying to implement the game plan and are failing and may be getting frustrated.

 

[major major]

I figured the slump was just motivation, and expected we'd see a much better showing against the Wings and Rags (followed by the Pens and Habs). So far so good. They're flying out there.

 

[MFRONE]

I figured the slump was just motivation, and expected we'd see a much better showing against the Wings and Rags (followed by the Pens and Habs). So far so good. They're flying out there.

Then the 3rd period happened

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

The challenge is how to deal with players who keep trying to implement the game plan and are failing and may be getting frustrated.

Exactly this. What happens when something that worked isn't working? If you make adjustments, do they take? If you go back to fundamentals, is it enough? If you try and play through it, are you confident enough things will return to form?

This is 'where' the Jackets are. It is not 'what' they are. I'm not sure we're answering the right question, or maybe we're not asking the question I think we're asking.

 

[Heinze 57]

I figured the slump was just motivation, and expected we'd see a much better showing against the Wings and Rags (followed by the Pens and Habs). So far so good. They're flying out there.

I was encouraged by what I saw last night. They looked like the better team even if the results don't back it up. They'll win that game 7 out of 10 times.

Losing a forward definitely didn't help. Neutered our 4th line, which is where our third period success comes from. I'm not going to hold that against them.