Value of: What is W. Nylander's realistic value?

[Haatley]

Seth Jones or equivalent top 5 pick in a recent draft with similar upside.

Nylander won’t be traded in a Hall for Larssson type deal.

It will be like a Johansen for Jones type deal.

You better add something huge to get anything close to Seth Jones.

 

[loyaltotheend]

Well I guess im thinking Parayko is not sure why the Leafs would want to trade for a 2nd pairing dman??

Just pointing out the garbage of people who only give credit for potential on one side of the argument

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

I find this discussion, and many on this site regarding the player in question, will vary depending on what is being discussed. For example:

- If the discussion is how much his next contract will be, and more specifically, how much it will cost the Leafs in terms of cap hit: it will cost ~$7MM, and there's no way there's a discount.
- If the discussion is his trade value: he won't fetch much, he's a winger, no way in hell he's worth 'young defenseman A'

I find this fascinating.

 

[jboknows]

its cute that Leafs fans think they have any chance of signing JT.

He met with 5-teams. Toronto is likely not going to be the highest $-value offer made... yet JT still chose to meet with them. If nothing else, it is absurd that you think Toronto has NO chance of getting Tavares. (I think he's staying in NY personally, but I won't say Toronto is out of the running and remain hopeful).

 

[jboknows]

Again, if he is the main piece in the deal the Leafs aren't getting a #1 D man

I agree with the fact that Nylander won't be getting you a #1 d-man. I do however think he could get you a good young defenceman that has solid potential to develop into a #1 d-man. I don't think the Seth Jones comparable trade is too far off in regards to what kind of player Nylander could yield (and before everyone jumps all over this saying Nylander can't get Seth Jones - I'm not saying that... I'm referring to the trade value at the time). The main issue in obtaining a high-quality defenceman like this today is that there are few teams that have as deep of a defence as Nashville did when that trade was made (and that are looking for offence).

 

[Papa Francouz]

Leafs can have their choice of Barrie or EJ for Nylander. Whichever fits their team identity and timeline best. If it's EJ, it might require an addition from Colorado, which is fine, just as long as it's reasonable. Both Barrie and EJ are capable top-pairing guys; Barrie being the more offensively gifted, whereas EJ is more defensively gifted.

 

[Skolman]

Seth Jones or equivalent top 5 pick in a recent draft with similar upside.

Nylander won’t be traded in a Hall for Larssson type deal.

It will be like a Johansen for Jones type deal.

The only way you're getting anything close to Jones is if Matthews is on the table.

I don't understand why a lot of Leafs fans think Nylander has this much value.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

You're not adding assets on top of Nylander for Parayko. That's overvaluing him.

Leaf nation wouldn't, that's the certainty here. How can you argue with the experts?

 

[TheDoldrums]

Leaf nation wouldn't, that's the certainty here. How can you argue with the experts?

Very constructive.

 

[Morgs]

Untouchable.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

You're not adding assets on top of Nylander for Parayko. That's overvaluing him.

Leaf nation wouldn't, that's the certainty here. How can you argue with the experts?

Very constructive.

Even though top defenders are worth a premium, we wouldn't trade Nylander for almost anything. We've been posting this kind of trade proposal for the last 2 years, but haven't landed that good, top 4 defender yet. Might be some connection there?

Seems what I'm doing is pointing out constructive, historical facts.

 

[135ace]

No one looks at a deal with Nylander and goes "I'd give up my #1 D man for him"

No one is saying he's trash, he's just not as valuable as a lot of Leafs fans think he is

To make this easier for Leafs fans to understand (since they'll just keep trying and add some junk like a draft pick to Nylander to get a 1D) Nylander's value is closer to trash than it is to #1D. He won't get you a cost controlled 1D unless there's a massive add.

 

[Skolman]

Even though top defenders are worth a premium, we wouldn't trade Nylander for almost anything. We've been posting this kind of trade proposal for the last 2 years, but haven't landed that good, top 4 defender yet. Might be some connection there?

Seems what I'm doing is pointing out constructive, historical facts.

Does that not tell you right there that most Leafs fans overrate him and his value isn't where you think it is?

 

[TheDoldrums]

Even though top defenders are worth a premium, we wouldn't trade Nylander for almost anything. We've been posting this kind of trade proposal for the last 2 years, but haven't landed that good, top 4 defender yet. Might be some connection there?

Seems what I'm doing is pointing out constructive, historical facts.

Again, how is Parayko a top defender? Nothing in his advanced stats or production suggest he's a monster in waiting. He's performed as a good second pair guy so far. I'm not trading Nylander and more assets for him. Apologies if that infuriates you, but don't ascribe your larger issues with the Leafs fanbase to me. Both your posts reference "Leafs Nation" and "We" as if I'm part of a hivemind instead of arriving at my own conclusions through reason. That's the part that wasn't constructive.

 

[4thline]

Similar age proven top 4 D with potential to be top pair or better

Older (Prime age) top 4D that has likely peaked with 2+ years of team control ++

 

[Cquant]

I agree with the fact that Nylander won't be getting you a #1 d-man. I do however think he could get you a good young defenceman that has solid potential to develop into a #1 d-man. I don't think the Seth Jones comparable trade is too far off in regards to what kind of player Nylander could yield (and before everyone jumps all over this saying Nylander can't get Seth Jones - I'm not saying that... I'm referring to the trade value at the time). The main issue in obtaining a high-quality defenceman like this today is that there are few teams that have as deep of a defence as Nashville did when that trade was made (and that are looking for offence).

I'm not sure there are any young defensemen that aren't yet established as #1D on their teams (I'm thinking Provorov), that aren't too green (e.g. any of the new drafted guys, or even Heiskanen/Dahlin/Makar) and still have potential to be a 1D. The best case scenario would have been Hanifin, but it's unlikely he will get traded now. Chychrun, Carlo, Brodin, Trouba, Montour, Skjei, Sanheim, Chabot are the only guys that come to mind. But none of these fits the "Seth Jones" type situation.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

To clarify, by "top defender", I meant top 4 defender. I should have made that clearer.

My post wasn't aimed specifically at you, other than to point out that Nylander is sacrosanct for us. If all it took was some combo of Carrick, Marincin, Neilsen, Leivo, 2nds or even a Brown level forward like him to land a middling, average defender like Parayko, then this deal would have been made a long time ago.

We have a well established pattern here, so I don't see things changing.

 

[Brock Radunske]

its cute that Leafs fans think they have any chance of signing JT.

The Leafs don't need a #1D.
They need a #2RHD.

 

[CraigsList]

i dont even know if i could name a single plus that would make me want to do a nylander for brodie was.
im gonna ignore stone completely because he is worth a late 2nd at best

just for kicks Brodie+Valimaki+Parsons

Valimaki is a no go. Would have to be Mangiapane.

 

[Killer Orcas]

Just pointing out the garbage of people who only give credit for potential on one side of the argument

I understand your point as Parayko hasn't elevated his game much since his rookie season. However 6'6'' RHD who can skate and has put up 35 points consistently, is on the 2nd PP unit behind Alex Pietrangelo, will always be valued more then a 60 point winger. I'm not saying that's all Nylander is as I see him becoming a 80 point player but put Parayko along side Rielly on the PP1 and I see his numbers going up to. Maybe Parayko isn't a 1D but he's certainly a top pairing Dman and that again is worth more then a winger just because it's harder to find the Dman then a winger. That's how I see it but just my opinion.

 

[Critical13]

Valimaki is a no go. Would have to be Mangiapane.

I would say Liljegren and Valimaki are close, and the prospect board lists seem to agree...I wouldn't hesitate to trade Liljegren++ for Nylander.

I wonder if a deal involving Heiskanen could be possible. To me, Dallas really only needs some secondary scoring to be a top team.

 

[embracedbias]

 

[loyaltotheend]

I understand your point as Parayko hasn't elevated his game much since his rookie season. However 6'6'' RHD who can skate and has put up 35 points consistently, is on the 2nd PP unit behind Alex Pietrangelo, will always be valued more then a 60 point winger. I'm not saying that's all Nylander is as I see him becoming a 80 point player but put Parayko along side Rielly on the PP1 and I see his numbers going up to. Maybe Parayko isn't a 1D but he's certainly a top pairing Dman and that again is worth more then a winger just because it's harder to find the Dman then a winger. That's how I see it but just my opinion.

Parayko is no more top pairing than Nylander is NHL centre. Anyway, if that's how you choose to see it, I don't feel like debating it.
Cheers

 

[rent free]

nylander isn't as good as any of those guys

 

[BearsofBeantown]

nylander isn't as good as any of those guys

Is he really comparing Willie to Seguin, Benn, MacKinnon, Kucherov and Draisaitl? That's cute..I hope he wasn't sober when that comparison was put out LOL

I did hear Willie was looking for a 6 year 36 million a year contract - so time will tell.