Value of: What is W. Nylander's realistic value?

[rent free]

Is he really comparing Willie to Seguin, Benn, MacKinnon, Kucherov and Draisaitl? That's cute..I hope he wasn't sober when that comparison was put out LOL

I did hear Willie was looking for a 6 year 36 million a year contract - so time will tell.

i don't think he's comparing wille to them, i think he's showing willie's production compared to those other guys.

btw, where did you hear that Willie was looking for a 6 year 36 million a year contract?

 

[Critical13]

nylander isn't as good as any of those guys

Is he really comparing Willie to Seguin, Benn, MacKinnon, Kucherov and Draisaitl? That's cute..I hope he wasn't sober when that comparison was put out LOL

I did hear Willie was looking for a 6 year 36 million a year contract - so time will tell.

Serious question - why is he worse? If he's scoring the same amount at the same age, why is he unable to develop while the others aren't?

Short of a time machine, what is the justification for saying they were the same at this age, and got better, but Nylander won't?

 

[embracedbias]

Is he really comparing Willie to Seguin, Benn, MacKinnon, Kucherov and Draisaitl? That's cute..I hope he wasn't sober when that comparison was put out LOL

I did hear Willie was looking for a 6 year 36 million a year contract - so time will tell.

I think he's saying you don't flippantly trade someone who has that type of production so early in his career. He could end up as good as the other plays who produced like that.

 

[rent free]

Serious question - why is he worse? If he's scoring the same amount at the same age, why is he unable to develop while the others aren't?

Short of a time machine, what is the justification for saying they were the same at this age, and got better, but Nylander won't?

no one said he is unable to develop while the other aren't. we are just saying nylander isn't a proven commodity yet. he may become better than some of those guys, he may not. those guys are top offensive players while nylander is not

 

[Critical13]

no one said he is unable to develop while the other aren't. we are just saying nylander isn't a proven commodity yet. he may become better than some of those guys, he may not. those guys are top offensive players while nylander is not

Right, people are saying his value is high because he's pacing with them. That's why his value is high. Lower end players don't hit those milestones at 20 and 21.

 

[rent free]

Right, people are saying his value is high because he's pacing with them. That's why his value is high. Lower end players don't hit those milestones at 20 and 21.

his value his high but it isn't worth a top pairing dman. right now he's a 60 point player. thats not incorrect to say because he hasn't been in the 70's for points but he is 22 and can improve. however until he gets 70 or 80 points, he won't be worth a top pair blueliner

 

[Critical13]

his value his high but it isn't worth a top pairing dman. right now he's a 60 point player. thats not incorrect to say because he hasn't been in the 70's for points but he is 22 and can improve. however until he gets 70 or 80 points, he won't be worth a top pair blueliner

So question for you - when Hedman scored 23 points at the same age, did you value him as a 23 point defenceman? Did you say "23 point defenceman don't get you top forwards". Probably not. Probably because potential does hold real value.

Not sure why Nylander is excluded to from that in your mind. Nylander is worth a #2 defenceman, there's no question. A Spurgeon/Hamilton/Pesce type. Parayko is a tough choice because he seems to be rocketing up the NHL D charts, and is only 26. That trade would only make sense if Edmundson or Dunn become top pairing D as well, otherwise St. Louis is just creating a hole to fill a different one.

You won't see Nylander traded for a #2 D until there is a team that is embarrassingly deep on the back end that needs forwards, and I don't see that happening until the most recent generation starts to fill up the depth charts.

 

[embracedbias]

his value his high but it isn't worth a top pairing dman. right now he's a 60 point player. thats not incorrect to say because he hasn't been in the 70's for points but he is 22 and can improve. however until he gets 70 or 80 points, he won't be worth a top pair blueliner

It's as if you're pretending that potential doesn't factor into player value...

 

[Brobust]

So question for you - when Hedman scored 23 points at the same age, did you value him as a 23 point defenceman? Did you say "23 point defenceman don't get you top forwards". Probably not. Probably because potential does hold real value.

Not sure why Nylander is excluded to from that in your mind. Nylander is worth a #2 defenceman, there's no question. A Spurgeon/Hamilton/Pesce type. Parayko is a tough choice because he seems to be rocketing up the NHL D charts, and is only 26. That trade would only make sense if Edmundson or Dunn become top pairing D as well, otherwise St. Louis is just creating a hole to fill a different one.

You won't see Nylander traded for a #2 D until there is a team that is embarrassingly deep on the back end that needs forwards, and I don't see that happening until the most recent generation starts to fill up the depth charts.

Well, Hedman didn't play for the Toronto Maple Laffs.

 

[Killer Orcas]

Parayko is no more top pairing than Nylander is NHL centre. Anyway, if that's how you choose to see it, I don't feel like debating it.
Cheers

I guess we'll agree to disagree then.
Cheers

 

[BearsofBeantown]

I think he's saying you don't flippantly trade someone who has that type of production so early in his career. He could end up as good as the other plays who produced like that.

Serious question - why is he worse? If he's scoring the same amount at the same age, why is he unable to develop while the others aren't?

Short of a time machine, what is the justification for saying they were the same at this age, and got better, but Nylander won't?

no one said he is unable to develop while the other aren't. we are just saying nylander isn't a proven commodity yet. he may become better than some of those guys, he may not. those guys are top offensive players while nylander is not

Nylander for sure has raw talent and skill - much like Alexi Kovalev who arguable could have been the best raw talent player in the world at that time (laugh all you will, he was like a Harlem Globe Trotter, all skill no game) - he could have easily been the best player in the era, but he was lazy, took long shifts, drove coaches and players nuts etc. There are other intangibles that do come into play, people talk about grit, willingness, toughness, leadership and the list could go on - of which no one has really said that he has as of yet. Not to mention the other players are already proven stars and the value is known to what they bring to a hockey team.

Willie is for sure a great talent with upside and I have made mention to my Leaf friends that they should trade him or Marner (who ever has more value to NHL clubs for a solid D man) - but you cant really think that he is to the level and talent of Nathan MacKinnon or Seguin? I am not sure if I would be more upset if you were trying to convince me or lie to yourself that he is.

 

[BearsofBeantown]

i don't think he's comparing wille to them, i think he's showing willie's production compared to those other guys.

btw, where did you hear that Willie was looking for a 6 year 36 million a year contract?

It was a guy from the Toronto Star that reported he wanted 6 year 36 and that they have spoke about a bridge contract as well.

 

[rent free]

It was a guy from the Toronto Star that reported he wanted 6 year 36 and that they have spoke about a bridge contract as well.

i'd be skeptical on that offer if i was the general manager. he'd be a free agent at 28 and i wouldn't want to extend him long term after that because 8 years for a guy thats in his prime is a bad choice. ideally, i'd want to give him a 2 year bridge deal, then lock him up for 8 years after that.

 

[A91]

Majority of those guys were in the NHL immediately after they were drafted or were later picks/projects who needed more time.
Didnt have the luxury of playing two seasons on the Marlies.

 

[milehigh11]

I dont know what his realistic value is but the Colorado Avalanche have some magic beans and will trade them for him.

 

[BearsofBeantown]

So question for you - when Hedman scored 23 points at the same age, did you value him as a 23 point defenceman? Did you say "23 point defenceman don't get you top forwards". Probably not. Probably because potential does hold real value.

Not sure why Nylander is excluded to from that in your mind. Nylander is worth a #2 defenceman, there's no question. A Spurgeon/Hamilton/Pesce type. Parayko is a tough choice because he seems to be rocketing up the NHL D charts, and is only 26. That trade would only make sense if Edmundson or Dunn become top pairing D as well, otherwise St. Louis is just creating a hole to fill a different one.

You won't see Nylander traded for a #2 D until there is a team that is embarrassingly deep on the back end that needs forwards, and I don't see that happening until the most recent generation starts to fill up the depth charts.

Hedman was a D man and the expectations are a lot different for D men in the league and many know that for goalies and D they come into their prime a bit later then many forwards. Not to mention comparing two different positions where forwards that are top 6 are in more abundance than top 4 (Hedman's case number 1 and norris winner). Potential does have/hold a lot of weight, but signs of growth in areas also helps etc. I mean we all remember Alexadre Daigle.....

 

[BearsofBeantown]

i'd be skeptical on that offer if i was the general manager. he'd be a free agent at 28 and i wouldn't want to extend him long term after that because 8 years for a guy thats in his prime is a bad choice. ideally, i'd want to give him a 2 year bridge deal, then lock him up for 8 years after that.

True but I guess they are trying to hedge their odds on it as well - 6 years through some of the best years is not terrible. If you do the bridge and Willie turns into the next Sidney Crosby...or Nate MacKinnon as many fans seem to think he ceiling is limitless....then you run into a bridge of 4.5 or more and then 8 years at 9 million or more. Not sure what the right way is to be honest.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

his value his high but it isn't worth a top pairing dman. right now he's a 60 point player. thats not incorrect to say because he hasn't been in the 70's for points but he is 22 and can improve. however until he gets 70 or 80 points, he won't be worth a top pair blueliner

So I guess Rasmus Dahlin is worth like a 4th rounder as he has 0 NHL experience and is a 0 point player. Or maybe his potential to be a franchise player drastically increased his value....

Not commenting on Nylander being worth a top pairing defender but he is certainly valued more than a 60 point winger currently due to his young age, room to grow and ability to transition to center.

You are correct in saying he is a 60 point player at the moment, however a lot of people on this forum seen to ignore the fact he can and likely will put up more points as he matures. Read some poster say Nylander is a finished product and is what he is... lol

 

[Kcb12345]

I would say Liljegren and Valimaki are close, and the prospect board lists seem to agree...I wouldn't hesitate to trade Liljegren++ for Nylander.

I wonder if a deal involving Heiskanen could be possible. To me, Dallas really only needs some secondary scoring to be a top team.

Heiskanen isn't available at all.

 

[Baksfamous112]

So I guess Rasmus Dahlin is worth like a 4th rounder as he has 0 NHL experience and is a 0 point player. Or maybe his potential to be a franchise player drastically increased his value....

Not commenting on Nylander being worth a top pairing defender but he is certainly valued more than a 60 point winger currently due to his young age, room to grow and ability to transition to center.

You are correct in saying he is a 60 point player at the moment, however a lot of people on this forum seen to ignore the fact he can and likely will put up more points as he matures. Read some poster say Nylander is a finished product and is what he is... lol

As he mature? He played on a very offensive gifted team in Toronto. Personally, I have not seen a progression between his first 25 NHL games and his last 25.

 

[Devilsrock17]

If the Leads land Tavares And would consider moving Nylander, I would say there are a good 4 defensemen that can be brought in.(not in any order here)
1. Damon Severson
2. Tyson Barrie
3. Matt Dumba
4. Brandon Montour

 

[Doyoulikeapples*]

its cute that Leafs fans think they have any chance of signing JT.

It’s going to be some awesome day here if they do though haha. Can’t wait to reply to these comments

 

[WhatWhat]

I would say Liljegren and Valimaki are close, and the prospect board lists seem to agree...I wouldn't hesitate to trade Liljegren++ for Nylander.

I wonder if a deal involving Heiskanen could be possible. To me, Dallas really only needs some secondary scoring to be a top team.

That would be a big fat not from Dallas. The reason why we arent worried about the D is because we should be getting top 4 minutes at an ELC price for 3 years. Trading Miro for scoring depth just means we shift our problems from one place to an other.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Well, Hedman didn't play for the Toronto Maple Laffs.

Fair point. Hedman would have probably been a lot more hyped if he was a Leaf.