What is the f***ing plan here?

[Sensung]

forbes

And what does Forbes say about their profitability?

 

[JD1]

And what does Forbes say about their profitability?

you can dig that up if you like....There's a lot of data, a lot of footnotes to the data and a very good explanation of how they arrive at the information they provide. There's also things you can compare by computing different figures from the available data.

I've examined that data quite thoroughly

 

[Sensung]

you can dig that up if you like....There's a lot of data, a lot of footnotes to the data and a very good explanation of how they arrive at the information they provide. There's also things you can compare by computing different figures from the available data.

I've examined that data quite thoroughly

Is that the HFboards version of pleading the 5th?

"I'd give you the answer, but it would be damaging to my argument".

LOL, we both know Forbes says Melnyk is full of shit when he claims he's losing money.

 

[JD1]

Is that the HFboards version of pleading the 5th?

"I'd give you the answer, but it would be damaging to my argument".

LOL, we both know Forbes says Melnyk is full of **** when he claims he's losing money.

No, that's not it at all. I've read the material...I've quoted from it extensively on these boards.....the data in it doesn't suit certain board narratives and i'm not going to waste my time. You want to read it, go ahead. I've read your posts re Melnyk....go ahead and read the financial material available

 

[Ice-Tray]

Definitely exciting.. I'd rather see the team doing well and be excited for that.. and I am a little anxious about it... the Sens have to make moves.. Can they be back in the hunt next year ? or will it take longer?.. Only one direction to go from here.

I agree, but man, if we can make a few moves, inject some exciting youth, and be a bubble team on the rise next season, man that would be awesome, and in my opinion not out of the question. We'll likely have a top 5 pick and that's super exciting, could be an immediate impact player.

Yup, one direction to go from here and it's up!

 

[BankStreetParade]

Not sure whqt point you are trying to make.

The comparison of expenditures is in USD.

We are bottom third in that measurement.

If you have info to provide on the revenue side with numbers converted to USD please feel free to bring it to the discussion.

The Leafs and Habs get paid in Canadian $ and are two of the highest revenue generating teams. Without the actual figures, that information is meaningless.

The comparison of expenditures is in USD where the majority of the league takes in revenues in USD while the Senators do not. There is a sizeable gap in the value of USD to Canadian currency. Something that American based teams do not have to deal with.

We're not talking about the Friedmann equations. We're talking about the disadvantage a small market Canadian team has in collecting revenues in Canadian dollars and paying out players, head coaches and management in USD.

Do any American teams collect revenues in Canadian dollars? No. So then it's not an even comparison.

I don't know why this is so hard for you to comprehend. The information is provided in USD because that's the basis of how the league divulges finances.

But that doesn't mean that the NHL just says the value of the currency is 1:1 no matter what the markets say.

Eugene Melnyk doesn't have special access to US currency where he gets to buy as much of it as he wants without paying any fees or difference in value.

So if a team that collects revenue in Canadian dollars has a current salary expenditure of $65 million USD, then they are effectively paying approximately $78 million CDN of the revenue that they took in for that same salary. (Math done assuming no conversion fee and a rate of 1.2 USD to CDN)

 

[Sensung]

The comparison of expenditures is in USD where the majority of the league takes in revenues in USD while the Senators do not. There is a sizeable gap in the value of USD to Canadian currency. Something that American based teams do not have to deal with.

We're not talking about the Friedmann equations. We're talking about the disadvantage a small market Canadian team has in collecting revenues in Canadian dollars and paying out players, head coaches and management in USD.

Do any American teams collect revenues in Canadian dollars? No. So then it's not an even comparison.

I don't know why this is so hard for you to comprehend. The information is provided in USD because that's the basis of how the league divulges finances.

But that doesn't mean that the NHL just says the value of the currency is 1:1 no matter what the markets say.

Eugene Melnyk doesn't have special access to US currency where he gets to buy as much of it as he wants without paying any fees or difference in value.

So if a team that collects revenue in Canadian dollars has a current salary expenditure of $65 million USD, then they are effectively paying approximately $78 million CDN of the revenue that they took in for that same salary. (Math done assuming no conversion fee and a rate of 1.2 USD to CDN)

That's a whole lot of words to state something that no one was disputing.

All CANADIAN markets have to deal with this issue.

When you get around to posting the Sens numbers let me know.

 

[Boud]

Trade Smith for pick.
Trade Brassard + for Sprong and Jarry
Trade Condon for pick.

Hoffman-Duchene-Sprong
Ryan-Pageau-Stone
Dzingel-White-Gaborik
Paajarvi-Shore-Pyatt

Harpur-Karlsson
Chabot-Ceci
Boro-Wideman

Anderson
Jarry

Salary out: 9.25M
Salary in: 2.5-3M

Saves 6M, 3 allocated to Stone, 1M or less to Ceci and the rest to cover for some of the raises of Dzingel, Pageau, Anderson and etc.

With some luck one of White, Brown or Chlapik can take a C spot a play good enough.

Also wouldn't mind trading one of our F prospect for a NHL ready D on ELC depending on who we draft this year.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

Trade Smith for pick.
Trade Brassard + for Sprong and Jarry
Trade Condon for pick.

Hoffman-Duchene-Sprong
Ryan-Pageau-Stone
Dzingel-White-Gaborik
Paajarvi-Shore-Pyatt

Harpur-Karlsson
Chabot-Ceci
Boro-Wideman

Anderson
Jarry

Salary out: 9.25M
Salary in: 2.5-3M

Saves 6M, 3 allocated to Stone, 1M or less to Ceci and the rest to cover for some of the raises of Dzingel, Pageau, Anderson and etc.

With some luck one of White, Brown or Chlapik can take a C spot a play good enough.

Also wouldn't mind trading one of our F prospect for a NHL ready D on ELC depending on who we draft this year.

One of those trades better net us a 1st round pick next season, and a good one, because with that lineup we will need it badly.

 

[Boud]

One of those trades better net us a 1st round pick next season, and a good one, because with that lineup we will need it badly.

Well, it'll be tough to know exactly what happens but I doubt the roster will be much better than that next year.

We need to shed approx 6M to pay for Ceci and Stone and also make up for the extensions of other guys who are getting raises.

Our options are somewhat limited. We could trade Hoffman but that would not be a good idea in my mind. Smith is as good as gone, one of Pageau or Brassard likely is as well. I think trading Brassard is the better option since he has more value and will also be looking at a raise in 2 years while Pageau will still be making 3-4M.

Optimal solution would be to trade Ryan but that would be very hard to do.

If we can grab Jarry and flip Condon that could save us a bit. Maybe trade Anderson but again that would be a challenge.

 

[Langdon Alger]

Trade Smith for pick.
Trade Brassard + for Sprong and Jarry
Trade Condon for pick.

Hoffman-Duchene-Sprong
Ryan-Pageau-Stone
Dzingel-White-Gaborik
Paajarvi-Shore-Pyatt

Harpur-Karlsson
Chabot-Ceci
Boro-Wideman

Anderson
Jarry

Salary out: 9.25M
Salary in: 2.5-3M

Saves 6M, 3 allocated to Stone, 1M or less to Ceci and the rest to cover for some of the raises of Dzingel, Pageau, Anderson and etc.

With some luck one of White, Brown or Chlapik can take a C spot a play good enough.

Also wouldn't mind trading one of our F prospect for a NHL ready D on ELC depending on who we draft this year.

Do you honestly believe we can trade Condon? He’s owed 2.5 next year and 3 million the year after. After the season he’s had, who would want him? Are we retaining in this scenario?

No one would trade for Hammond at a little over a million last off season. Sure, he’s no good, but Condon will be even tougher to move with his salary and two more years. Not to mention his poor play. No one wants a goalie who has a 3.4 GAA. Even if you argue he could bounce back next year, it’s too big of a risk.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

I think goalie is very high on PD’s shopping list

 

[JD1]

That's a whole lot of words to state something that no one was disputing.

All CANADIAN markets have to deal with this issue.

When you get around to posting the Sens numbers let me know.

you enjoy sitting back and critiquing eh?

how about you crunch some numbers and present what you understand of the teams financial situation.

don't bother with some kind of i know Melnyk is making money comment. Look at the data, crunch it up, and post some figures. you seem to be hot on this topic so take a shot .... otherwise shut your ahole

 

[Sensung]

you enjoy sitting back and critiquing eh?

how about you crunch some numbers and present what you understand of the teams financial situation.

don't bother with some kind of i know Melnyk is making money comment. Look at the data, crunch it up, and post some figures. you seem to be hot on this topic so take a shot .... otherwise shut your ahole

Forbes had Melnyk running a $10 M profit. Of course you knew that but didn't want to post it.

 

[Langdon Alger]

I think goalie is very high on PD’s shopping list

Well, he better find a way to move Andy or Condon then. Good luck Pierre, you’ll need it.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

 

[jbeck5]

I'm not saying we shouldn't be critical. I'm saying the criticism doesn't make sense anymore because both sides of every situation are being criticized. As I outlined before, whether it be the criticisms of management, coaching, the players, the moves, the money, whatever it is, everything is always negative.

Send a guy packing because he's not performing and he has a big salary? Somehow criticized.
Spend money to move said player when everyone said the owner would never retain salary? Still criticized.
Criticize the GM for not making moves when necessary? Criticized when he makes a plan and starts following through.

It's just utterly stupid in here these days.

The team is having a bad season but all sense and thought is being abandoned when analyzing what needs to happen next. And it's an extremely negative way of thinking. And bordering on cancerous as more and more people continue to say they refuse to support this team financially. How does that end?

It's supposed to end with Eugene selling. He won't keep the team if he's losing money when he can sell the team for 4 times what he paid and make hundreds of millions and all the fans vocally hate him and don't wanna support him.

The NHL also won't let the team move as they have several years of being a top 10 team for attendance when they had an owner that told the fans the goal was to win the Stanley cup.

The NHL won't let him sell to anyone other than someone keeping the team in Ottawa.

So how does it end? There you have it. When melnyk sells. If almost guarantee a sellout first game after melnyk sells.

 

[jbeck5]

A bunch of HF experts that really don't know too much about running a hockey team, but can win on NHL18 easy setting so they know more than everyone. It is sad.

Lol what do video games have to do with the sens tire fire of a year?

 

[jbeck5]

2 of the best players to join the nhl in the last 30 years, we cant really expect that. High draft picks are necessary and hopefully we get a high end player, but guys like Crosby and Malkin are more like hitting the lotto even if youve got first overall. Its kind of unfair the Penguins got both.

Ok, not Crosby or Malkin...but maybe if we can get a stamkos, mcdavid, kane, tavares, etc type players.

There are a lot of superstar players drafted early that pushed their team into the top 10 teams.

 

[jbeck5]

Even if we use 66.6 million as the estimate, then you multiply that by about 1.2 to convert USD into Canadian and you have a team spending close to 80 million on salary. That's not in the upper echelons of the league in salary spending?

That's not how it works. You could then convert to yen the sens spend over 7 trillion.

Therefore we spend more than everyone else combined?

Surely you have a better understanding of currencies.

You can convert US dollars into any other currency you want to make it look like the sens spend more, but they still spend 66 million US.

If you're converting one team, you have to convert all teams to see who spends more.

 

[BatherSeason]

otherwise shut your ahole

A little testy this morning are we??

 

[topshelf15]

It's supposed to end with Eugene selling. He won't keep the team if he's losing money when he can sell the team for 4 times what he paid and make hundreds of millions and all the fans vocally hate him and don't wanna support him.

The NHL also won't let the team move as they have several years of being a top 10 team for attendance when they had an owner that told the fans the goal was to win the Stanley cup.

The NHL won't let him sell to anyone other than someone keeping the team in Ottawa.

So how does it end? There you have it. When melnyk sells. If almost guarantee a sellout first game after melnyk sells.

Yep so glad Bettman muzzled EM on that one ..We were never in danger of leaving

 

[jbeck5]

Yes, all teams pay in USD but this team collects revenue in CANADIAN dollars. Their ticket sales are in Canadian dollars, not USD. Their local and national TV deals are in Canadian dollars, not USD.

Even if Melnyk has separated the CTC as its own business - the concessions, parking, memorabilia, merchandise, etc. are all in Canadian currency.

How do you guys think that works? Do you think Melnyk has a way of buying US currency for an equivalent rate where no one else can?

That's why things in the states are cheaper. It all works out. A teacher starting out here might make 50-60 thousand. A teach in the states might start at 30-40 thousand. My dad retired making 95,000 from the gov. My uncle who lives in Utah with roughly the same job makes 65,000...

So yes, things cost more in Canada than the US, but your average person makes more Canadian than the American salary to make up for it.

An accountant here makes 80,000 and buys a 35,000 Camry.

An accountant there makes 65,000 and buys a 25,000 Camry.

So let's bring it back to hockey.

I remember seeing ads for 2 pairs of Florida tickets, 2 t shirts or hats, food vouchers, etc for $25-35 a few years ago.

It basically paid for the clothing and the drinks and the game was essentially free.

 

[jbeck5]

The comparison of expenditures is in USD where the majority of the league takes in revenues in USD while the Senators do not. There is a sizeable gap in the value of USD to Canadian currency. Something that American based teams do not have to deal with.

We're not talking about the Friedmann equations. We're talking about the disadvantage a small market Canadian team has in collecting revenues in Canadian dollars and paying out players, head coaches and management in USD.

Do any American teams collect revenues in Canadian dollars? No. So then it's not an even comparison.

I don't know why this is so hard for you to comprehend. The information is provided in USD because that's the basis of how the league divulges finances.

But that doesn't mean that the NHL just says the value of the currency is 1:1 no matter what the markets say.

Eugene Melnyk doesn't have special access to US currency where he gets to buy as much of it as he wants without paying any fees or difference in value.

So if a team that collects revenue in Canadian dollars has a current salary expenditure of $65 million USD, then they are effectively paying approximately $78 million CDN of the revenue that they took in for that same salary. (Math done assuming no conversion fee and a rate of 1.2 USD to CDN)

Yes, but the average canadian makes more than the average American.

So if buffalo has tickets at $80USD
Sens have the same ticket at $100CDN and the Canadian dollar is at 80 cents US then we're perfectly fine.

The average salary being higher will make up for the 100-80 difference.

Toronto or Montreal have no problem getting the revenue of nyr or LAK despite Canadian dollar...because it all evens out in the end. It makes a difference when it comes to import and export but that's not the issue here.

According to stats canada in September 2017, the average Canadian income is "just over 51,000 a year"

How much money are we earning? The average Canadian wages right now

For the states, in 2017, the average income was $31,099.

Personal income in the United States - Wikipedia

So you can mention how we're at a 20% disadvantage all you want, but at some point you gotta realize that Canadian teams can charge 20% more because Canadians make more than 20% more salary.

I'd be curious to see the difference in memorabilia. How much is an NHL jersey at your local sportchek vs in the states. It's probably cheaper in the states too due to $$ but once again, Canadians make more.

Look at their minimum wages for examples.

 

[topshelf15]

The plan for the team has to involve getting far far better forwards,scoring can keep you in every game...The best teams in the league have the highest rated offences...We want to win ,we better start to be able to average 3 or more every time out