Pre-Game Talk: WEEK 28: Last Week of Regular Season "The Continued Suck" at Vegas, vs Oil

Tralfamadore

Don't Panic.
Sep 25, 2011
8,822
7,586
Last year they were on an absolute heater and seized the division with that final push. How did that work out? The only teams hotter than the Avs entering the playoffs were the Bruins and Oilers. Trying to enter the playoffs hot is a waste and the Avs management knows it.

Heater or no heater that doesn't matter. What matters is the matchup and it's a nightmare for the Avs. The Jets are way more physical, incredibly stingy, and the goalie matchup is laughable. I don't even know if they have a single win in them. Certainly not on the road.
 

chet1926

Registered User
Jan 9, 2008
12,556
6,066
Denver
JFC we have already established that Georgiev is not making the saves needed. No one here is arguing against that.

TWO SHOTS ON GOAL, SEVERAL DEFENSIVE BREAKDOWNS AND 2 MINOR PENALTIES. THAT'S HOW THE AVS HELPED THEIR SHITTY GOALIE IN THE 3RD PERIOD.

Hill gave up the worst goal of the game (Colton) and Vegas didn't stop playing did they?
If the expectation is that we give up 0 shots and fire 15+ every period. Take no penalties and draw two ourselves. Then we might as well forfeit all our games moving forward. Because that isn't even remotely doable. Other teams get paid too, they are going to have stretches of play where they are simply better than the Avs. Especially good rested teams vs a tired travelled team.

The Avs 3rd period was fine for a team playing it's 6th period in less than 24 hours.

They did a good job at limiting high end chances, even though they were out shot. Even a mid level backup should have won that game 3-1.

It was bad period that we still should have comfortably won the game with because it was good enough, except for the goalie who wasn't good enough.
 

chet1926

Registered User
Jan 9, 2008
12,556
6,066
Denver
Heater or no heater that doesn't matter. What matters is the matchup and it's a nightmare for the Avs. The Jets are way more physical, incredibly stingy, and the goalie matchup is laughable. I don't even know if they have a single win in them. Certainly not on the road.
I agree. How we are playing doesn't mean a whole ton.

What does matter is that it's 0-0 when the playoffs start.

And looking at the matchup, nothing really favors the Avs outside of 29. But he can't do it all himself. And there is no way a team that is that well coached and has that strong of defense and goalie is going to let 29 beat them singlehandedly.

If 8 and 96 show up and play like they are capable of, it makes it a little more interesting. But they've been pretty bad all year, so I'm not expecting anything crazy.

If Winnipeg plays their game they really shouldn't struggle with this series. If they get tight and nervous it would give the Avs a shot.
 

The Abusement Park

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Jan 18, 2016
34,281
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If the expectation is that we give up 0 shots and fire 15+ every period. Take no penalties and draw two ourselves. Then we might as well forfeit all our games moving forward. Because that isn't even remotely doable. Other teams get paid too, they are going to have stretches of play where they are simply better than the Avs. Especially good rested teams vs a tired travelled team.

The Avs 3rd period was fine for a team playing it's 6th period in less than 24 hours.

They did a good job at limiting high end chances, even though they were out shot. Even a mid level backup should have won that game 3-1.

It was bad period that we still should have comfortably won the game with because it was good enough, except for the goalie who wasn't good enough.
Even if you want to say it was a bad period, George let in 4 goals on Vegas’ last 13 shots. Or a .692sv%. That’s unacceptable.
 

cinchronicity

Registered User
Jan 16, 2021
805
945
Durango
The Avs / Bednar are a one trick pony. Bednar is simply unable to adjust to different teams / strategies / circumstance.

Power Play - For crying out loud, stop standing in one place. All teams have significant digital capabilities. They see that the Avs do not move, then plan accordingly with stick in the perfect lanes.

PK - Again, teams have video, and realize that they can cycle the puck all day, because the Avs play in a tight box. They also see that Bednar's model almost always allows a man in the crease to be uncovered.

Jumping in by defense - Bednar has stated in public that he does not want the team finishing checks as that might lead to injury. The national broadcasters even had a discussion about how finished checks add up by the end of the game. Opponents have figured out that when our DMen pinch in ( and not even pinch. WTF is JMFJ doing behind the offensive net?) and they try to crush them down low, thus making them late for the rush the other way. 3 times in the past 2 games, the Avs give up a goal, and Manson - following an unsuccessful trip down the ice, isn't even back to the blue line when the puck hits the net. But Toews and JMFJ do the same thing over and over. So we have wings, with shorter sticks, trying to play defense. Other teams see this and take advantage.

I long ago got fed up with Bednar's 'system.' The only reason the 'system' works is an other-worldly Mac, and a usually other-worldly Makar. If Dallas / Vegas / Winnepeg decide to park the bus, Bednar has zero answers. The Avs seem to have a good video team as well. Does Bednar EVER look at video? It sure does not look like it to me. My wife is able to pick out the strategic misses, saying "They always do that to us." If my wife can figure out how teams defend the Avs, Bednar damn well should as well.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Bednar has won championships at several levels. Thing is, at those lower levels, if you can put together the minor league equivalent of 9296, then you do not need the bottom 9 to do much but not shit the bed. That does not work in the NHL. Toronto and Edmonton prove this. In the NHL, the coach needs to play a significant role, minute to minute. Bednar does not do that, and it is a significant reason the Avs look like they will lose in the first round again. I'm not sure that Bednar even has the locker room anymore. They always start periods slow, especially the first period. Leading the league in comeback wins is no badge of honor, because that means the team is frequently...behind.

I've watched every minute of every game this season. I cannot think of a single time Bednar made a strategic change mid-game. For that matter, what changes are being made in practice? The Avs have consistently sucked at face-offs for years. They have sucked at clearing the puck for years. For a short period last year, it looked like Bednar had found a new D-zone exit strategy, but they stopped doing that this year. If the Avs lose in the first round, Pratt and Bennet absolutely have to go, and I would love to hear a cogent argument ( not that he has won minor-league titles) why Bednar should stay.
 

willy702

Registered User
Jul 3, 2016
3,792
2,123
The Avs / Bednar are a one trick pony. Bednar is simply unable to adjust to different teams / strategies / circumstance.

Power Play - For crying out loud, stop standing in one place. All teams have significant digital capabilities. They see that the Avs do not move, then plan accordingly with stick in the perfect lanes.

PK - Again, teams have video, and realize that they can cycle the puck all day, because the Avs play in a tight box. They also see that Bednar's model almost always allows a man in the crease to be uncovered.

Jumping in by defense - Bednar has stated in public that he does not want the team finishing checks as that might lead to injury. The national broadcasters even had a discussion about how finished checks add up by the end of the game. Opponents have figured out that when our DMen pinch in ( and not even pinch. WTF is JMFJ doing behind the offensive net?) and they try to crush them down low, thus making them late for the rush the other way. 3 times in the past 2 games, the Avs give up a goal, and Manson - following an unsuccessful trip down the ice, isn't even back to the blue line when the puck hits the net. But Toews and JMFJ do the same thing over and over. So we have wings, with shorter sticks, trying to play defense. Other teams see this and take advantage.

I long ago got fed up with Bednar's 'system.' The only reason the 'system' works is an other-worldly Mac, and a usually other-worldly Makar. If Dallas / Vegas / Winnepeg decide to park the bus, Bednar has zero answers. The Avs seem to have a good video team as well. Does Bednar EVER look at video? It sure does not look like it to me. My wife is able to pick out the strategic misses, saying "They always do that to us." If my wife can figure out how teams defend the Avs, Bednar damn well should as well.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Bednar has won championships at several levels. Thing is, at those lower levels, if you can put together the minor league equivalent of 9296, then you do not need the bottom 9 to do much but not shit the bed. That does not work in the NHL. Toronto and Edmonton prove this. In the NHL, the coach needs to play a significant role, minute to minute. Bednar does not do that, and it is a significant reason the Avs look like they will lose in the first round again. I'm not sure that Bednar even has the locker room anymore. They always start periods slow, especially the first period. Leading the league in comeback wins is no badge of honor, because that means the team is frequently...behind.

I've watched every minute of every game this season. I cannot think of a single time Bednar made a strategic change mid-game. For that matter, what changes are being made in practice? The Avs have consistently sucked at face-offs for years. They have sucked at clearing the puck for years. For a short period last year, it looked like Bednar had found a new D-zone exit strategy, but they stopped doing that this year. If the Avs lose in the first round, Pratt and Bennet absolutely have to go, and I would love to hear a cogent argument ( not that he has won minor-league titles) why Bednar should stay.
Which coaches are these great tacticians of the game today? I'm not here to say Bednar is a step above the league but all these coaches out here are pretty rigid to their systems because that's how the NHL and hockey works. You create your system with its handful of key tenets and then demand your players stick to them. No one is supposed to go off script because one guy not following the system creates a bunch of cascading holes to be covered on the ice.
 

chet1926

Registered User
Jan 9, 2008
12,556
6,066
Denver
The Avs / Bednar are a one trick pony. Bednar is simply unable to adjust to different teams / strategies / circumstance.

Power Play - For crying out loud, stop standing in one place. All teams have significant digital capabilities. They see that the Avs do not move, then plan accordingly with stick in the perfect lanes.

PK - Again, teams have video, and realize that they can cycle the puck all day, because the Avs play in a tight box. They also see that Bednar's model almost always allows a man in the crease to be uncovered.

Jumping in by defense - Bednar has stated in public that he does not want the team finishing checks as that might lead to injury. The national broadcasters even had a discussion about how finished checks add up by the end of the game. Opponents have figured out that when our DMen pinch in ( and not even pinch. WTF is JMFJ doing behind the offensive net?) and they try to crush them down low, thus making them late for the rush the other way. 3 times in the past 2 games, the Avs give up a goal, and Manson - following an unsuccessful trip down the ice, isn't even back to the blue line when the puck hits the net. But Toews and JMFJ do the same thing over and over. So we have wings, with shorter sticks, trying to play defense. Other teams see this and take advantage.

I long ago got fed up with Bednar's 'system.' The only reason the 'system' works is an other-worldly Mac, and a usually other-worldly Makar. If Dallas / Vegas / Winnepeg decide to park the bus, Bednar has zero answers. The Avs seem to have a good video team as well. Does Bednar EVER look at video? It sure does not look like it to me. My wife is able to pick out the strategic misses, saying "They always do that to us." If my wife can figure out how teams defend the Avs, Bednar damn well should as well.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Bednar has won championships at several levels. Thing is, at those lower levels, if you can put together the minor league equivalent of 9296, then you do not need the bottom 9 to do much but not shit the bed. That does not work in the NHL. Toronto and Edmonton prove this. In the NHL, the coach needs to play a significant role, minute to minute. Bednar does not do that, and it is a significant reason the Avs look like they will lose in the first round again. I'm not sure that Bednar even has the locker room anymore. They always start periods slow, especially the first period. Leading the league in comeback wins is no badge of honor, because that means the team is frequently...behind.

I've watched every minute of every game this season. I cannot think of a single time Bednar made a strategic change mid-game. For that matter, what changes are being made in practice? The Avs have consistently sucked at face-offs for years. They have sucked at clearing the puck for years. For a short period last year, it looked like Bednar had found a new D-zone exit strategy, but they stopped doing that this year. If the Avs lose in the first round, Pratt and Bennet absolutely have to go, and I would love to hear a cogent argument ( not that he has won minor-league titles) why Bednar should stay.
Bednar simply doesn't adjust. And quite frankly it's going to cost him his job shortly. He has the team play one way and one way only. Even if we are getting beat badly, never changes a damn thing other than maybe line combos. The actual play style is unaltered.

You nailed it if 29 isn't flat carrying the system fails. The only games we really win are games where 29 has 3+ points. 8 used to help but has been in full suck mode for quite some time.

Like you said, your wife points things out, mine does the same damn thing and most of the time she is only half paying attention to the game. If she can point out obvious things, then you damn well know, Winnipeg/Dallas/Vegas/Edmonton and their staffs can.

I wasn't a fan of a coaching change until recently, but it's pretty clear to me that Bednar will not adapt to win hockey games. Honestly it's arrogance from Bednar, he thinks his system is so good that if done correctly other teams should have to adapt to him. Unfortunately this is the NHL and you need to have backup plans for when your main system is not working. And if that's the case it might be time for a new guy that can provide some new thoughts and the ability to read the game and adjust to the moves the opponent makes.
 

S E P H

Cloud IX
Mar 5, 2010
31,101
16,620
Toruń, PL
Goal tending is atrocious.

PK is awful.
These two tend to go hand in hand, Georgiev lacking a big save on the PK is what is causing it to look awful like that second goal yesterday (you have to save that). I am concerned with some of the bottom 6, but more in terms of generating offence. Not sure where Cogliano, Parise, and Wood's goalscoring went but it's not on this planet anymore.
 

Avs9296

Registered User
Jul 1, 2019
2,793
4,261
It's too bad Roy took over the Islanders when he did, because I would have loved to bring our old friend Varly back. Behind this team, he could still be a difference maker I think. Too bad.
 
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Mighty Makar

I hate this fu*ken team
May 24, 2016
14,797
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8D5A18AD-.jpeg
 

Bender

Registered User
Sep 25, 2002
17,407
8,804
Bednar simply doesn't adjust. And quite frankly it's going to cost him his job shortly. He has the team play one way and one way only. Even if we are getting beat badly, never changes a damn thing other than maybe line combos. The actual play style is unaltered.

You nailed it if 29 isn't flat carrying the system fails. The only games we really win are games where 29 has 3+ points. 8 used to help but has been in full suck mode for quite some time.

Like you said, your wife points things out, mine does the same damn thing and most of the time she is only half paying attention to the game. If she can point out obvious things, then you damn well know, Winnipeg/Dallas/Vegas/Edmonton and their staffs can.

I wasn't a fan of a coaching change until recently, but it's pretty clear to me that Bednar will not adapt to win hockey games. Honestly it's arrogance from Bednar, he thinks his system is so good that if done correctly other teams should have to adapt to him. Unfortunately this is the NHL and you need to have backup plans for when your main system is not working. And if that's the case it might be time for a new guy that can provide some new thoughts and the ability to read the game and adjust to the moves the opponent makes.
Yeah, he's had issues with Bowness before but at the same time, the system does work quite well when the players stick to it for 60 minutes or as close to that as possible (ie: Game #2 vs Tampa in the finals).

I'm certainly not saying that it's easy for them to pull off every single game but I think we saw a good deal of that yesterday through 2 periods - where we gave vgk very little and it felt like this is the way we should be playing on a regular basis if we hope to have a deep playoff run.

It's going to take a while longer for a Stanley Cup winning coach like Bednar that won only 2 years ago to get fired. I'd love for them to do things differently on the PP as it's kind of stale but it can heat up at times as well.
 
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Bill Peckerskull

Fargin' Icehole
Feb 19, 2003
48,531
52,592
Castle Rock, CO
These two tend to go hand in hand, Georgiev lacking a big save on the PK is what is causing it to look awful like that second goal yesterday (you have to save that). I am concerned with some of the bottom 6, but more in terms of generating offence. Not sure where Cogliano, Parise, and Wood's goalscoring went but it's not on this planet anymore.
Trenin as well. Has 2 goals, and 0 assists since being acquired, and one of those goals grazed him as it went into the net. Duhaime also only has 1 goal, and 4 assists (should have 2 goals, as the one Trenin goal was Duhaime's shot). Outside of LOC and Rosco, the entire Bottom 6 has been disappointing this season. Was why I was hoping Kovalenko would get into the lineup.
 

expatriatedtexan

Habitual Line Stepper
Aug 17, 2005
17,048
12,772
Friedge and Marek talking about George/Annunen on 32 Thoughts. Elliotte thinks it would be best to rip the band-aid off and go with Annunen, Marek says there is no way, and Geogre will start vs Edmonton on Thursday and the first game of the playoffs.

Elliotte says he thinks Avs v. Jets series will start on Monday.
As fans, we've been having this discussion for what seems like weeks now, seems weird that it's just now being discussed in the larger media. I like where Elliotte went though.

Georgieve has been given basically the entire season to right his ship and here we are at game 82's doorstep and we really don't like what we've seen.

Now look at Justus...8th in the league in Sv% (.925), 10th in GAA (2.35). I do not think he can do much more than maybe pulling a Tonya Harding to help us win. He's probably not the answer, I admit it. But I do believe he'll put up more of a fight and that might be enough for our boys if they get rolling.
 
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Bill Peckerskull

Fargin' Icehole
Feb 19, 2003
48,531
52,592
Castle Rock, CO
As fans, we've been having this discussion for what seems like weeks now, seems weird that it's just now being discussed in the larger media. I like where Elliotte went though.

Georgieve has been given basically the entire season to right his ship and here we are at game 82's doorstep and we really don't like what we've seen.

Now look at Justus...8th in the league in Sv% (.925), 10th in GAA (2.35). I do not think he can do much more than maybe pulling a Tonya Harding to help us win. He's probably not the answer, I admit it. But I do believe he'll put up more of a fight and that might be enough for our boys if they get rolling.
I think Annunen would end up being as bad or worse. I don't think he's ready for the #1 job. He's given up some really stinky goals the last 3 times he's played.
 

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