Weakest Division: Central vs Pacific

[McJedi]

View attachment 576253

My team annihilated the oilers in the western conference finals. that’s what woodcroft looked like sending goons on the ice at the end of each loss to send a message.

Try again bud

As an Avs fan, it wasn’t close. St Louis was so much better than Edmonton. The series vs St. Louis was about equal in difficulty to the one vs Tampa. That was a battle and grind.

if St. Louis had defeated the Avs and moved on, I’d have guessed they’d beat the oilers in five the following round.

in that equation,
Edmonton = Nashville
st Louis = or close to Tampa.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

View attachment 576253

Considering the Avs just swept the Oilers and won the cup... I dont think the Oilers are living rent free in a single Avs fans head.


But nice try

Oilers were absolutely the weakest team Colorado faced in the playoffs. We had to use our backup goalie and without our 2C for half the series and still pulled off the easy sweep while controlling possession in every game

 

[AddyTheWrath]

Considering the Avs just swept the Oilers and won the cup... I dont think the Oilers are living rent free in a single Avs fans head.


But nice try

Oilers were absolutely the weakest team Colorado faced in the playoffs. We had to use our backup goalie and without our 2C for half the series and still pulled off the easy sweep while controlling possession in every game

Why don’t you speak for yourself instead of your entire fanbase. And I wasn’t even talking about you so you can move along.

 

[centipede2233]

Try again bud

Your right Edmonton is better

 

[TK 421]

Ok so outside of the dominance Colorado displayed 5v5 last year(and perhaps will again this coming season), I think the new coaches in the Pacific do potentially close the gap here between the West divisions. It's an interesting proposition for sure right?

Cassidy joining Vegas, Woodcroft in Edmonton and Boudreau in Vancouver..... shit just got real-er up in here. You can write Cal Gary off if you want but they have Sutter power and that mystical prairie demon juju is not to be trifled with.

So I'd say there's a good chance that the Pacific closes the gap on the Central to some degree.

 

[Three On Zero]

Pacific easily

 

[TK 421]

Oh and OP...... the Central shouldn't be in ANY weakest division poll.

 

[OilWagon]

If the question is weakest division in the league, you really should have all the divisions in the poll. How would you measure this? Which division has the best teams on top, worse on bottom or the least skill gap?

Here's some last season regular season stats..

Playoffs:
1. Central (SC)
2. Atlantic (SCF)
3. Metro & Pacific (CF)

Combined points / division:
1. Central (750pts)
2. Atlantic (731pts)
3. Metro (718pts)
4. Pacific (713pts)

Points by top4 teams / division:
1. Atlantic (454pts)
2. Central (439pts)
3. Metro (429pts)
4. Pacific (408pts)

Points by bottom4 teams / division:
1. Central (311pts)
2. Pacific (305pts)
3. Metro (289pts)
4. Atlantic (277pts)

Difference between top4 and bottom4 teams:
1. Pacific (103pts)
2. Central (128pts)
3. Metro (140pts)
4. Atlantic (177pts)

So the Pacific division has the least skill gap inside the division, but it also has least points overall and by top4 teams. Atlantic has the best teams, but it also has the worst teams.

Best way would be to check points in cross-divisional games, but if we go by these stats alone the order is:

1. Central (by a large margin)
2. Atlantic
3. Pacific
4. Metro

This could be completely different next season, I just thought it was interesting how different the statistical results are to at least my perception.

Wow an actual useful post on HFboards? I thought this thread was for making blanket statements with nothing to back it up.

 

[MrHeiskanen]

If the question is weakest division in the league, you really should have all the divisions in the poll. How would you measure this? Which division has the best teams on top, worse on bottom or the least skill gap?

Here's some last season regular season stats..

Playoffs:
1. Central (SC)
2. Atlantic (SCF)
3. Metro & Pacific (CF)

Combined points / division:
1. Central (750pts)
2. Atlantic (731pts)
3. Metro (718pts)
4. Pacific (713pts)

Points by top4 teams / division:
1. Atlantic (454pts)
2. Central (439pts)
3. Metro (429pts)
4. Pacific (408pts)

Points by bottom4 teams / division:
1. Central (311pts)
2. Pacific (305pts)
3. Metro (289pts)
4. Atlantic (277pts)

Difference between top4 and bottom4 teams:
1. Pacific (103pts)
2. Central (128pts)
3. Metro (140pts)
4. Atlantic (177pts)

So the Pacific division has the least skill gap inside the division, but it also has least points overall and by top4 teams. Atlantic has the best teams, but it also has the worst teams.

Best way would be to check points in cross-divisional games, but if we go by these stats alone the order is:

1. Central (by a large margin)
2. Atlantic
3. Pacific
4. Metro

This could be completely different next season, I just thought it was interesting how different the statistical results are to at least my perception.

Central has been the best division the last 10 years at this point. No idea why people still try and argue it year after year.

 

[2023FriendshipTour]

Central as the Avs are so far ahead of the rest.

 

[Holymakinaw]

Pacific is clearly the weakest. Seattle, Anaheim, San Jose, and Vancouver are all pathetic, and Calgary and Edmonton are not very good teams either, same with LA and Vegas.........basically all the teams stink.

 

[Eltuna]

Why don’t you speak for yourself instead of your entire fanbase. And I wasn’t even talking about you so you can move along.

Avs fan that disagrees with the two others, the Oilers series is going to get remembered differently than what actually happened due to the outcome. This is the case for the St Louis series as well but for the opposite reason.

The Oilers could have easily won one game in my opinion, they really let game 4 get away from them.

St Louis on the other hand did not deserve to make it to game 6, they got destroyed harder than the Oilers did and were extremely fortunate to win game 5. Both series should have been 5 games.

Both teams were also better than Nashville who were the weakest team Colorado played this year, I think the Oilers and Blues were of a similar level all things considered although people will let the outcome (6 games vs 4 games) sway their opinions.

 

[AvroArrow]

Pacific has been the worst division for about 3 years now and it still hasn't changed. A lot of Oilers fans love to believe their team is elite because they dominate the Pacific, but the other 3 divisions are a completely different animal and the WCF proved it. They are the best of the Pacific, but far from being with the best of the best.

 

[Mighty Makar]

The Blues would have swept the Oilers, too.

 

[tucker3434]

I think the Pacific improved but they were also trash last year. I’ve still got the Central, just closer.

 

[TK 421]

Avs fan that disagrees with the two others, the Oilers series is going to get remembered differently than what actually happened due to the outcome. This is the case for the St Louis series as well but for the opposite reason.

The Oilers could have easily won one game in my opinion, they really let game 4 get away from them.

St Louis on the other hand did not deserve to make it to game 6, they got destroyed harder than the Oilers did and were extremely fortunate to win game 5. Both series should have been 5 games.

Both teams were also better than Nashville who were the weakest team Colorado played this year, I think the Oilers and Blues were of a similar level all things considered although people will let the outcome (6 games vs 4 games) sway their opinions.

Sorry but this post is total horseshit.

So you're gifting the Oilers a "win" and taking an actual win away from the Blues? What kind of Shark math are they teaching where you're at?

Oilers got swept, Blues won 2 games prior to their starting goalie getting injured and did it with replacement level players at LD which was already THE organizational weakness. Krug, the Blues best LD, didn't even dress a single game and Scandella played injured in just a couple games. Leddy was basically by himself facing brutal usage backed up by guys who wouldn't have even been in the lineup had everyone been healthy.

You've sold the Blues short here, what they did was very impressive considering the circumstances and certainly was more impressive than anything the Oilers did.

 

[North Cole]

Avs fan that disagrees with the two others, the Oilers series is going to get remembered differently than what actually happened due to the outcome. This is the case for the St Louis series as well but for the opposite reason.

The Oilers could have easily won one game in my opinion, they really let game 4 get away from them.

St Louis on the other hand did not deserve to make it to game 6, they got destroyed harder than the Oilers did and were extremely fortunate to win game 5. Both series should have been 5 games.

Both teams were also better than Nashville who were the weakest team Colorado played this year, I think the Oilers and Blues were of a similar level all things considered although people will let the outcome (6 games vs 4 games) sway their opinions.

I don't know why people just look at EDM winning 0 vs the Avs and the Blues winning 2 vs the Avs, then conclude the Blues sweep the Oilers or something, we did just fine against STL. COL and MIN are the nightmare matchups, and I agree about the sweep aspect, IMO this has some similarities to the WPG series. We are further ahead than where we were at that time, but COL is also 10x better than WPG was, but the result was much the same. We had chances to win games but the overall execution was lacking and COL was too good. However, since it's 4-0 result like the WPG series it turns into a meme with zero context.

 

[Eltuna]

Sorry but this post is total horseshit.

So you're gifting the Oilers a "win" and taking an actual win away from the Blues? What kind of Shark math are they teaching where you're at?

Oilers got swept, Blues won 2 games prior to their starting goalie getting injured and did it with replacement level players at LD which was already THE organizational weakness. Krug, the Blues best LD, didn't even dress a single game and Scandella played injured in just a couple games. Leddy was basically by himself facing brutal usage backed up by guys who wouldn't have even been in the lineup had everyone been healthy.

You've sold the Blues short here, what they did was very impressive considering the circumstances and certainly was more impressive than anything the Oilers did.

I disagree, the Blues had extremely similar metrics this year against the Avs when compared to their series last year against the Avs where they got swept. They just got more fortunate bounces this year to give a different result (look up the metrics they got outplayed to a very similar degree in both years). When looking at all series this year, the Avs vs the Blues is a contender for most lopsided series of the entire playoffs.

The Blues had a worse CF%, SCF%, HDCF%, and xGF% than the Oilers did. Game 5 especially was a lightning in the bottle scenario for the Blues with the way the game ended, Kuemper did everything in his power to lose a game the Avs really should not have.

I will say though that the Avs only had two games these entire playoffs where the opponent was the clearly better team and the Blues in game 2 were one of them so they do have that.

 

[Fourier]

If the question is weakest division in the league, you really should have all the divisions in the poll. How would you measure this? Which division has the best teams on top, worse on bottom or the least skill gap?

Here's some last season regular season stats..

Playoffs:
1. Central (SC)
2. Atlantic (SCF)
3. Metro & Pacific (CF)

Combined points / division:
1. Central (750pts)
2. Atlantic (731pts)
3. Metro (718pts)
4. Pacific (713pts)

Points by top4 teams / division:
1. Atlantic (454pts)
2. Central (439pts)
3. Metro (429pts)
4. Pacific (408pts)

Points by bottom4 teams / division:
1. Central (311pts)
2. Pacific (305pts)
3. Metro (289pts)
4. Atlantic (277pts)

Difference between top4 and bottom4 teams:
1. Pacific (103pts)
2. Central (128pts)
3. Metro (140pts)
4. Atlantic (177pts)

So the Pacific division has the least skill gap inside the division, but it also has least points overall and by top4 teams. Atlantic has the best teams, but it also has the worst teams.

Best way would be to check points in cross-divisional games, but if we go by these stats alone the order is:

1. Central (by a large margin)
2. Atlantic
3. Pacific
4. Metro

This could be completely different next season, I just thought it was interesting how different the statistical results are to at least my perception.

You are right to say that one should look at cross divisional games. One of the issues with measuring the strength by total points earned as above is that all games don't have the same number of points awarded. It can be skewed by the number of ties within divisional games. If you measure points earned vs one another the picture looks different. For example:

The Pacific's cumulative record vs the Atlantic was 66 46 16 = 148 pts
vs the Met was 65 41 20 = 150 pts
The Met vs the Pacific 62 46 20 = 144 pts
The Atl vs the Pacific 62 56 9 = 133 pts

 

[TK 421]

I disagree, the Blues had extremely similar metrics this year against the Avs when compared to their series last year against the Avs where they got swept. They just got more fortunate bounces this year to give a different result (look up the metrics they got outplayed to a very similar degree in both years). When looking at all series this year, the Avs vs the Blues is a contender for most lopsided series of the entire playoffs.

The Blues had a worse CF%, SCF%, HDCF%, and xGF% than the Oilers did. Game 5 especially was a lightning in the bottle scenario for the Blues with the way the game ended, Kuemper did everything in his power to lose a game the Avs really should not have.

I will say though that the Avs only had two games these entire playoffs where the opponent was the clearly better team and the Blues in game 2 were one of them so they do have that.

Citing advanced metrics while ignoring context is pointless, especially considering the Blues success while defying those metrics' projections, which the Blues did all season long.

So you can claim it was the same 2 years in a row but you've completely ignored crucial details like Binnington being on fire then getting injured and replaced by Husso vs Binnington playing poorly 2 years ago and also the Blues situation at LD this past post season which I already covered in my previous post. You failed to address any of that while citing metrics.

Tell you what, let's just stick to the only math that actually matters which in this case is...

Games won vs Colorado last PO's

Blues - 2
Oilers - 0

So unless you have some contextual evidence that the Oilers were as handicapped by injuries as the Blues were this past PO, I remain unconvinced by your argument that somehow, magically the Oilers did better than the Blues against the Avs. Again, 2 games to 0 with a decimated LD and bereft of their starting goalie who was playing lights out at the time of his injury. If the Oilers were as screwed by injuries as the Blues were then by all means, cite them.

 

[Connor McConnor]

If the question is weakest division in the league, you really should have all the divisions in the poll. How would you measure this? Which division has the best teams on top, worse on bottom or the least skill gap?

Here's some last season regular season stats..

Playoffs:
1. Central (SC)
2. Atlantic (SCF)
3. Metro & Pacific (CF)

Combined points / division:
1. Central (750pts)
2. Atlantic (731pts)
3. Metro (718pts)
4. Pacific (713pts)

Points by top4 teams / division:
1. Atlantic (454pts)
2. Central (439pts)
3. Metro (429pts)
4. Pacific (408pts)

Points by bottom4 teams / division:
1. Central (311pts)
2. Pacific (305pts)
3. Metro (289pts)
4. Atlantic (277pts)

Difference between top4 and bottom4 teams:
1. Pacific (103pts)
2. Central (128pts)
3. Metro (140pts)
4. Atlantic (177pts)

So the Pacific division has the least skill gap inside the division, but it also has least points overall and by top4 teams. Atlantic has the best teams, but it also has the worst teams.

Best way would be to check points in cross-divisional games, but if we go by these stats alone the order is:

1. Central (by a large margin)
2. Atlantic
3. Pacific
4. Metro

This could be completely different next season, I just thought it was interesting how different the statistical results are to at least my perception.

Your post has too much logic for the East Coast bias on these boards.

 

[Hisch13r]

It's somehow managed to be the Pacific for over half a decade

 

[Hatter of the Beach]

Pacific and it’s not particularly close.

 

[Eltuna]

Citing advanced metrics while ignoring context is pointless, especially considering the Blues success while defying those metrics' projections, which the Blues did all season long.

So you can claim it was the same 2 years in a row but you've completely ignored crucial details like Binnington being on fire then getting injured and replaced by Husso vs Binnington playing poorly 2 years ago and also the Blues situation at LD this past post season which I already covered in my previous post. You failed to address any of that while citing metrics.

Tell you what, let's just stick to the only math that actually matters which in this case is...

Games won vs Colorado last PO's

Blues - 2
Oilers - 0

So unless you have some contextual evidence that the Oilers were as handicapped by injuries as the Blues were this past PO, I remain unconvinced by your argument that somehow, magically the Oilers did better than the Blues against the Avs. Again, 2 games to 0 with a decimated LD and bereft of their starting goalie who was playing lights out at the time of his injury. If the Oilers were as screwed by injuries as the Blues were then by all means, cite them.

All three teams in this discussion were injured (Girard, Kumeper, Kadri, Nurse, Drai, etc). I’m not debating which team is the most injured, the only thing I’ve debated is the fact that the Blues getting to 6 games automatically makes them better than the Oilers, I watched all the games and do not believe that to be the case.

Avs versus Blues to me was the more lopsided series. You mention context but there is no context to explain the stats the Blues put up against Colorado. They had a SCF% of 37.07 and a HDCF% of 37.12%. To put that into perspective the worst team analytically in the entire regular season (Arizona) had numbers of 43.43% and 42.77%. They legitimately got absolutely dominated but those who only see that it went to 6 games will not understand how badly they got outplayed and just assume they are better than the Oilers.

 

[Namikaze Minato]

Jake Paul and Auston Matthews have won the same amount of NHL playoff series btw.

Post about the central and pacific divisons, better find a way to make this about Auston Matthews!