"We’re looking for a great improvement on what we did last year."

[slamigo]

I have a feeling EM is just going to purge all the top players because he's scared of the next lock out. EM can't have money being paid out with no gate revenue. He literally cannot.
There's going to be a lock out. No other reason for the weirdness we're seeing like the Stars CEO calling out players on big contracts and the NHLPA responding. Those are just the first shots across the bow. The next lock out is going to get ugly.
Unless Stone, Duchene and Dzingle agreed to contracts that are not front end loaded with bonuses, they will be dealt.

 

[God Says No]

I have a feeling EM is just going to purge all the top players because he's scared of the next lock out. EM can't have money being paid out with no gate revenue. He literally cannot.
There's going to be a lock out. No other reason for the weirdness we're seeing like the Stars CEO calling out players on big contracts and the NHLPA responding. Those are just the first shots across the bow. The next lock out is going to get ugly.
Unless Stone, Duchene and Dzingle agreed to contracts that are not front end loaded with bonuses, they will be dealt.

I think you are on to something. There is 0% chance EM was going to sign any of those guys with front loaded bonuses. Which seems to be the rage now.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

We lost Chara and Havlat not due to the team put on the ice due to Muckler, but because we were so good we had too many players to fit under the cap.

Redden over Chara was a big mistake, but Chara wasn't signing here after the Hossa trade.

Havlat was a cap causality, and it sucked big time.

The problem with Muckler was he wouldn't give up his draft picks or prospects to put us over the top. I remember everyone was dying for Olli Jokinen for 2 or 3 trade deadlines.

Muckler never traded his 1st round picks in 5 years, and traded his 2nd's 2 times as GM and as a result we never got the big additions like Jokinen. He wouldn't trade his young guys like Vermette.

Dorion on the other hand in 2.5 years, has traded his 1st round pick 2 times, and has traded his 2nd 2 times. He got his big name in Duchene, but that doesn't seem to be a lasting relationship. Zibanejad was a young high potential guy traded along with a 2nd for a cost controlled player, who was later traded for a prospect and a pick.

Dorion isn't afraid to make moves, but overpass and sees bad results.

Muckler was afraid to make moves, and was never able to add a guy to put the team over the hump.

They would both be much better in each other's position, as Dorion has operated this team as though it was the best in the league with regards to giving up assets, while Muckler treated it as though it was a rebuilding team with regards to assets.

Muckler traded 3 2nd (Laich + 2nd for old-age Bondra time, Bochenski + 2nd for Arnason, 2nd for Saprykin + 7th) and a recent 1st (Klepis for Vrada).

Havlat was not really a cap casualty. He was an RFA with a 2.6m QO and we spent 13mil on Redden, Gerber and Corvo. He wanted 5m if i remember correctly and Gerber + Corvo made 7mil. He also included Smolinski in that trade, who was making 1.5mil and scored 44 points the next year. Chicago got a 2nd rounder for him at the deadline.

Hindsight is 2020 and we can now loook at the Gerber deal especially as a complete bust but Havlat was a legit star and trading him was not the way to go about things. Same with not trading his 1sts. His 5-year draft haul basically broke down to Eaves, Meszaros, Elliott & Foligno - all of whom Murray dealt for really good returns, btw

As for Chara, either way Muckler is to blame. Either he made a terrible evaluation that no one in the organization agreed with, or he made the most egregious sign-and-trade in medium-term memory and left a sour taste in his mouth. Both possibilities are 100% on Muckler

As for Zib, bad trade for sure but at least Dorion recouped a 1st rounder which turned into JBD + Tychonick. We basically parlayed Zib + 2nd into Gustavsson, JBD, Tychonick + 2020 3rd. Not great but far from his worst move

I agree that they both were ill-suited for their contexts, but I think Muckler is worse because he was actually going against the wishes of the owner whereas Dorion is firmly under the thumb. And, in Mucklers case, the owner was right.

It's going to be a massive gut punch when Colorado drafts Hughes or Kakko with the pick that should have been our reward for watching this **** all season.

I'm praying to the ball gods that the balls be in our favour

 

[SPF6ty9]

Has anyone's interest in this team dwindled to near nothing?

I used to get annoyed if I missed a Sens game. Now I don't even realize if i missed one lol.

Probably missed more Sens games this year than the past 3 years combined. Nothing breads apathy quite like meaningless hockey. Will not be watching tonight either.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

I have a feeling EM is just going to purge all the top players because he's scared of the next lock out. EM can't have money being paid out with no gate revenue. He literally cannot.
There's going to be a lock out. No other reason for the weirdness we're seeing like the Stars CEO calling out players on big contracts and the NHLPA responding. Those are just the first shots across the bow. The next lock out is going to get ugly.
Unless Stone, Duchene and Dzingle agreed to contracts that are not front end loaded with bonuses, they will be dealt.

The next lockout is going to be such a gongshow.

Owners are going to want some kind of regulation on bonuses, players will want to get rid of escrow.

I wonder if we'll lose another season. It feels like a guarantee at this point.

The only slightly redeeming part? We'll be able to blame the Leafs for the lockout due to that outrageous Tavares contract.

 

[Que]

The next lockout is going to be such a gongshow.

Owners are going to want some kind of regulation on bonuses, players will want to get rid of escrow.

I wonder if we'll lose another season. It feels like a guarantee at this point.

The only slightly redeeming part? We'll be able to blame the Leafs for the lockout due to that outrageous Tavares contract.

Absolutely. I can’t wait for someone to offer sheet Marner or Matthews.

 

[slamigo]

Probably missed more Sens games this year than the past 3 years combined. Nothing breads apathy quite like meaningless hockey. Will not be watching tonight either.

I can’t even get my kids to watch at all. And they all played hockey. That’s the scary thing. The next generation of viewers is shrinking. It’s just not entertaining enough. I used to watch every game but it’s become a chore lately and now I pretty much only tune in and out while doing something else.
The gong show from EM hasn’t helped but the on ice product just isn’t all that interesting if the games are meaningless in December. The team has no hope right now. Bad owner, failed arena deal, no first round pick, no hope of playoffs or even any hope for next year. Then the lockout will happen. How to generate interest in that mess?

 

[Cosmix]

This years trade deadline is going to be fun.

Not with Dorion at the helm and Melnyk's strategy!

 

[Cosmix]

Garrioch the mouthpiece eats whatever is fed to him.

Yes, unfortunately. I would like to see him call a spade a spade. But he is a "reporter" not an "analyst" so I understand his predicament given that the rag he works for requires Senators ad revenues.

 

[Cosmix]

Just read an article on The Athletic. Interesting read on Seguin and Benn. BUT the stats used show the horrid reality of the Ottawa Senators team.
Dellow: Are Tyler Seguin and Jamie Benn really sinking the...

 

[Senscore]

Long is the way and hard, that out of Hell leads up to light.

 

[HF Reader]

I think you are on to something. There is 0% chance EM was going to sign any of those guys with front loaded bonuses. Which seems to be the rage now.

I agree. My guess is that Melnyk will start to pay players once the team sheds the dead salaries (Phaneuf, Gaborik, MacArthur and I'll add Condon, Ryan and to a degree Smith and Pageau). These expiring contracts might have coincided with Lebreton coming online.
As you point out, I suspect Melnyk expects a new CBA to diminish the bonus problem. Anyone up for a new contract prior to the new CBA is vulnerable to being dealt. Stone and Duchene are almost certain to demand lockout protection bonus structures that Melnyk will be reluctant to pay. To be cynical, the Senators are trading Stone and Duchene for the players I named above, plus whatever they get in the actual trade.

So my guess is that the plan is to be close to a playoff team in two or three years once the dead salaries are off the books and revenue increases via Lebreton. Effectively Melnyk sees the team as an expansion team with a head start (Chabot, Tkachuk) and whatever picks he gets for Stone, etc.

If I'm correct, we can only hope that the team can keep Chabot and Tkachuk and whoever we draft down the road.
I hope I'm wrong about the above. Maybe they'll bite the bullet and sign Stone with bonuses.

 

[IlTerrifico]

Assuming the Cheapo Factor applies and the Sens move Duchene and Stone for youth and/or picks at the deadline, and assuming all that youth works out and 3 years from now the Sens are on the rise, will there not be a recognized need by management to get some top line vets, types like Duchene and Stone, to lead the youth, just like the Leafs have done adding Tavares and Marleau (OK he is getting obsolete in a hurry)? Exactly how will they acquire that, and stay in Cheapo's salary cap when all the young players will be up for RFA and even UFA raises?

And with players coming out of their entry level deals in waves, what are the chance that Cheapo even retains enough of them to be rising to enough of a degree to be contenders?

Can we make sure the next time Cheapo buds to the front of the new liver line that the fee is whatever funds he has left after Ruddy kicks his ace in court?

 

[coladin]

"We’re looking for a great improvement on what we did last year."

"We’re excited and we feel it’s going to be a much better Ottawa team"

"We’re happy with the direction we’re going"

Ottawa Senators, stats after 39 GP:

Season	GP	Pts	GF	GA	Standings	Standings Atlantic
2017-18	39	35	105	135	29	7
2018-19	39	34	123	153	30	8

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Great job to Sens management, they've completely failed to meet their own expectations.

It has been a tough go. Without Karlsson, Hoffman, Condon, Pageau on a thin team was really punishing. Going into December the team was hanging in there.

Looking at those stats, I think the wheels really fell off on last year's team in the second half of the season. I have hope that this won't be the case. The young guys are developing and have to be content with that right now. Pageau and Condon should help if Condon regains his form.

Things have not gone as planned for anyone's liking.

 

[Engineer]

I think the wheels really fell off on last year's team in the second half of the season.

The wheels fell off in November last year, where they went 3-7-1.

January was also particularly bad, with another 3-7-1 record.

October was their strongest month going .500, followed by February (.464) and March (0.406).

They did not have a single month with a winning record.

 

[Byron Bitz]

Muckler

Muckler helped build the team that went to the finals in 2007

 

[Senscore]

Things have not gone as planned for anyone's liking.

That implies there was a plan outside of "cut as much salary as possible." Because that plan is working spectacularly.

 

[Blotto71]

They’re pros. They know more than we do.

I'm going to end the year in a positive fashion and agree that they do know more than you.

 

[Senscore]

I believe this team expends more effort on its media strategy than its hockey operations strategy.

 

[robsenz]

It's almost as if players and coaches are brought in by management.

It's almost as if management doesn't actually play hockey. If you read my post you might want to pay attention to the first 4 words.

 

[Stylizer1]

Muckler traded 3 2nd (Laich + 2nd for old-age Bondra time, Bochenski + 2nd for Arnason, 2nd for Saprykin + 7th) and a recent 1st (Klepis for Vrada).


I agree that they both were ill-suited for their contexts, but I think Muckler is worse because he was actually going against the wishes of the owner whereas Dorion is firmly under the thumb. And, in Mucklers case, the owner was right.


I'm praying to the ball gods that the balls be in our favour

Where do you get this from?

 

[Stylizer1]

The next lockout is going to be such a gongshow.

Owners are going to want some kind of regulation on bonuses, players will want to get rid of escrow.

I wonder if we'll lose another season. It feels like a guarantee at this point.

The only slightly redeeming part? We'll be able to blame the Leafs for the lockout due to that outrageous Tavares contract.

Players should get what they score.
You finish with 90 points, you get 9 million,
You finish the season with 63 points you get 6.3 million.
You get 15 points, you get 1.5 million.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Where do you get this from?

Muckler was fired because he didnt go for it hard enough. His inability to add Gary Roberts in 2007 was often cited by the media as a reason why he was fired

He was never able to do what it took to put us over the top. Melnyk is short-sighted in nature but in this case that was actually what we needed. A broken clock is right twice a day

Players should get what they score.
You finish with 90 points, you get 9 million,
You finish the season with 63 points you get 6.3 million.
You get 15 points, you get 1.5 million.

You get injured you get nothing!

 

[Stylizer1]

Muckler was fired because he didnt go for it hard enough. His inability to add Gary Roberts in 2007 was often cited by the media as a reason why he was fired

He was never able to do what it took to put us over the top. Melnyk is short-sighted in nature but in this case that was actually what we needed. A broken clock is right twice a day


You get injured you get nothing!

We no know the media citing anything is not always the true story. As for injured players not getting payed there would have to be some safety nets so that they would be paid fairly during that time.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

We no know the media citing anything is not always the true story. As for injured players not getting payed there would have to be some safety nets so that they would be paid fairly during that time.

I was just kidding about the injuries

As for the Muckler thing, it was reported by local nd national media. you asked where I got it from, its as close to verified as anything really can be

Melnyk even admitted that he discussed Roberts with Muckler before the deadline and it was one of the reasons that he was fired