WCH - Impressions of the Tournament

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xxxx

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Sep 20, 2012
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Ok, maybe I was being too strong on that. Maybe this isn't the very perfect best-on-best and a perfect international tournament, and anyone is free to put it below the olympics and such. But it's still a damn good and special tournament that the players seemingly care about and I'm pretty sure the win would mean as much for them as any other WC/olympic win. For that reason I think people should give a little bit more respect to this tournament. I wouldn't say a thing if the hockey was "just ok", or if there was no real effort worthy of comparing it to the SC playoffs or olympic games, or if you could tell that players are not THAT excited on the ice, etc. You know, I would get it then, and really wouldn't put much value into it. But if it's the opposite, again I think this tournament deserves more respect than it gets. If someone's opinion is that it's simply not at olympic-leve etc., or that it doesn't really count with the other World Cups/Olympics, fine, it's your bussiness obviously. But you should acknowledge, in my opinion, if the players feel perhaps differently and put some value into it. You know, just imagine a theoretical situation. You and Sidney Crosby are in a restaurant the other day and talking as best friends, or as close family friends for example. You talk about bunch of things, like friends do, etc. You then ask him what it actually means for him that he won this World Cup or how he's enjoying it, etc. He says it's really something amazing and special and up there with the olympics or stanley cup, etc. Would you then really say something along the lines that it wasn't a "real tournament", etc.? I think that would be somehow awkward and even insulting. You know what I mean?

I know I'm different on this here, but that's just the way I am. I put a lot of value, importance, and significance into what players who play the game actually think about it, or how much effort and preparation and motivation they put into it, or which achievements matter the most for them, etc. I would change my opinion if the players didn't really care that much and you could somehow see it, even if just slightly. And I'm ready to admit I was wrong if players from the NA team or European don't look too much interested or don't play really with full effort or fully motivated (which I think you can see on the ice more often than not), or if the wins aren't taken that much seriously, there's many game situations you can see how much it matters to them. Whether the players are really upset and try hard, or rather act like "nothing too special happened" when they win.

So, perhaps I'm sorry I was being too aggressive, but I also think this tourney really deserves a bit more respect than it gets from you guys, even if it's on a "different scale" than the olympics or other tournaments.
 

JETZZZ

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I think if the NHL and the IOC came to some agreement today and told us that best-on-best Olympics will continue, people will be much less critical of this new world cup format and accept this tournament for what it is (a fun NHL all-star tournament)
 

FuriousSenator

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Mar 18, 2011
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Interesting.

I will tell you one thing, with a clear confidence, that the TV viewership is going to be higher than for the hockey olympics in Sochi, you can bet on that. And no, the attendance is certainly not going to be lower that at the World Juniors :laugh: You will certainly be proven wrong on these point, just not right now. In 7 weeks or so. I know people will be rather amazed by the quality of hockey so they might somehow forget that they originally thought it would be a flop, or that there would be empty arenas, that the attendance would be bad, that the hockey would suck, etc., but I hope someone like you will come here and admit they were wrong about this.

Who cares if Canadians care. There is zero (0) prestige in winning something that your opponent cares nothing about.

Would you care if Canada lost the world cup of stilt walking?

The trouble with having your opponent country disengaged is that the stakes are instantly killed. There's nothing on the line. No emotional payoff for 'conquering' your opponent. They'll just shrug their shoulders at us and say 'k good for you'.
 
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FuriousSenator

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Mar 18, 2011
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World Hockey Championships >>>>>>>>> this bogus world cup. I'll watch the former over the latter any day. The latter is a meaningless nothing. The former at least has history and the eyes of the hockey world (maybe not Canada or US for stupid elitist North American reasons) on it. Not to mention all kinds of interesting structural aspects - promotion and relegation with lower divisions means every year there are new countries in the mix and it's exciting to see how they do and if they avoid relegation etc...

All the teams in this tournament were just given a spot. Boring.
 
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xxxx

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Who cares if Canadians care. There is zero (0) prestige in winning something that your opponent cares nothing about.

Would you care if Canada lost the world cup of stilt walking?

The trouble with having your opponent country disengaged is that the stakes are instantly killed. There's nothing on the line. No emotional payoff for 'conquering' your opponent. They'll just shrug their shoulders at us and say 'k good for you'.

according to what we can hear and read, it seems that players from all the teams care. Not sure about fans, but players seem to care quite a lot, and of course the intensity and effort on the ice will be a sign too. If you talk about fans, some of them don't really "care" about the previous Canada Cups/World Cups neither, although the players, again, do. Why should I disregard 1996 or 2004 World Cups because some fans of the opponent teams we played against don't put much importance there?
 

Conspiracy Theorist

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Jan 30, 2016
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World Hockey Championships >>>>>>>>> this bogus world cup. I'll watch the former over the latter any day. The latter is a meaningless nothing. The former at least has history and the eyes of the hockey world (maybe not Canada or US for stupid elitist North American reasons) on it. Not to mention all kinds of interesting structural aspects - promotion and relegation with lower divisions means every year there are new countries in the mix and it's exciting to see how they do and if they avoid relegation etc...

All the teams in this tournament were just given a spot. Boring.
But Finland, Sweden and Russia will have their best players in this tournament.
 

Gary Nylund

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Oct 10, 2013
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Who cares if Canadians care. There is zero (0) prestige in winning something that your opponent cares nothing about.

Would you care if Canada lost the world cup of stilt walking?

The trouble with having your opponent country disengaged is that the stakes are instantly killed. There's nothing on the line. No emotional payoff for 'conquering' your opponent. They'll just shrug their shoulders at us and say 'k good for you'.

:laugh:

World Hockey Championships >>>>>>>>> this bogus world cup. I'll watch the former over the latter any day. The latter is a meaningless nothing. The former at least has history and the eyes of the hockey world (maybe not Canada or US for stupid elitist North American reasons) on it. Not to mention all kinds of interesting structural aspects - promotion and relegation with lower divisions means every year there are new countries in the mix and it's exciting to see how they do and if they avoid relegation etc...

All the teams in this tournament were just given a spot. Boring.

Thanks for your input. :)
 

Seanaconda

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May 6, 2016
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Who cares if Canadians care. There is zero (0) prestige in winning something that your opponent cares nothing about.

Would you care if Canada lost the world cup of stilt walking?

The trouble with having your opponent country disengaged is that the stakes are instantly killed. There's nothing on the line. No emotional payoff for 'conquering' your opponent. They'll just shrug their shoulders at us and say 'k good for you'.

So basically the world championships for Canada and the states.
 

habsrule4eva3089

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Nov 22, 2008
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Potential?

There's barely anyone in Canada that cares, not to mention the world doesn't even know this exists.

Do you people not watch the Olympic Games, and see what it means to represent your country?

i feel sorry for the folks who buy the propaganda coming from this league.

It will be fun to see how many thousands watch this in Canada when the viewership comes out.
 

v-man

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Not surprised at all to see it selling so poorly. I have serveral friends who have season's tickets to just about every sports team in the city for business entertainment purposes, and they're not even considering bringing their clients to this thing. Even if we for a moment ignore the ridiculous format of a "World Cup" that only features 6 national teams, the timing of the thing is simply extremely questionable. What made them think that people would want to watch this pointless drivel/obvious NHL marketing scheme only few weeks after the Olympics, and in a town that will host the World Juniors, Centennial Classic and the Grey Cup in the months ahead? There's simply zero need, demand or buzz for the tournament.
 

Ben White

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Dec 28, 2015
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Hey Gary Nylund, tell the hockey fans in Switzerland. We are going to have a world cup of hockey. Oh but your nation is not good enough so you can not enter a team. Your best players will be mashed together with other small hockey nations. When is it you ask? It begins the exact time you begin your domestic league. Yeah, we do not need your Crappy players so why bother collaborating with your petty league.
In case you think there are no Swiss hockey fans check this article out. It is the celebration of SC Bern championship. And they average 16,000 fans per game.
http://swisshockeynews.ch/index.php...s-celebrated-swiss-champion-sc-bern-yesterday

Yeah, this is such a travesty. This whole thing. The NHL actually believes that sports are a commercial spectacle in general and nothing more. No soul no nothing more to it really. Sad.
 

Gary Nylund

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Yeah, this is such a travesty. This whole thing. The NHL actually believes that sports are a commercial spectacle in general and nothing more. No soul no nothing more to it really. Sad.

Like it or not, the NHL is a business. Partly because of that, it isn't (and probably can never be) everything everyone wants it to be, but the best hockey played in the world is played by NHL players. It's been that way for a long time and there's something to be said for that. I personally love watching NHL hockey and am therefore happy the NHL exists. Criticisms based on it having no soul seems :laugh:

Keep it real folks. ;)
 

stars33

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Jan 29, 2011
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Like it or not, the NHL is a business. Partly because of that, it isn't (and probably can never be) everything everyone wants it to be, but the best hockey played in the world is played by NHL players. It's been that way for a long time and there's something to be said for that. I personally love watching NHL hockey and am therefore happy the NHL exists. Criticisms based on it having no soul seems :laugh:

Keep it real folks. ;)

You are missing the whole point Gary. I totally believe in capitalism. I respect the NHL is a private business. And I wanted the NHL to organize a World cup because the Olympics was giving the NHL a raw deal. But part of the show of staging a world cup is not just the talent but what it represents. This world cup with fake teams has no meaning to many fans of international hockey. This ruins the show no matter how good the hockey players are.
You can take the best players and place them on 8 teams but if the tournament has no meaning what is the point.
This is what is deflating the excitement for many international hockey fans. We want this international event to mean something.

Perfect example: A movie can have great Actors and special effects but if there is no story the movie is not going to be good.
Same goes for this World cup. The story stinks.
 

xxxx

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Oh please. "Fans of international hockey" :laugh: I thought that you either are a fan of any Team Canada or not. You either are a fan of any team USA or not. Throwing those teams under the bus and not even watching tells me that that person is not really fan of his national team, which is kinda weird you know, when hearing all the international ******** here.

I would have never thought that watching Team Europe taking on Team USA is such a nightmare for someone :laugh:

This is just a ridiculous obsession.
 
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Jablkon

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May 23, 2014
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Like it or not, the NHL is a business. Partly because of that, it isn't (and probably can never be) everything everyone wants it to be, but the best hockey played in the world is played by NHL players. It's been that way for a long time and there's something to be said for that. I personally love watching NHL hockey and am therefore happy the NHL exists. Criticisms based on it having no soul seems :laugh:

Keep it real folks. ;)

This is going to be offtopic. What is real on it? NA U 23 or team rest of Europe are real? I agree with complains about too many boring matches in WHC and there might be less teams. Still it seems to me more real.But if I accept this as reality, then we should make distinction between this "Best hockey tourney" - which it is obviously striving to be, international tourneys and best of best international tourneys.

What would they say for example in basketball? Under that terms they would probably scratch even Lietuva....I agree players and teams probably all like it, but common, this simply does not reflect reality of int hockey. As a hockey fan I will watch it, if it is in reasonable time. I am also watching Hlinkas. But for people who associates int hockey with more than the game, i.e. nations, fans etc. I am afraid they dont get it....
 

Gary Nylund

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You are missing the whole point Gary. I totally believe in capitalism. I respect the NHL is a private business. And I wanted the NHL to organize a World cup because the Olympics was giving the NHL a raw deal. But part of the show of staging a world cup is not just the talent but what it represents. This world cup with fake teams has no meaning to many fans of international hockey. This ruins the show no matter how good the hockey players are.
You can take the best players and place them on 8 teams but if the tournament has no meaning what is the point.
This is what is deflating the excitement for many international hockey fans. We want this international event to mean something.

Perfect example: A movie can have great Actors and special effects but if there is no story the movie is not going to be good.
Same goes for this World cup. The story stinks.

No you're missing the point. You say you understand the NHL is a business and you believe in capitalism etc. but then you go off the rails and start talking about what "staging a world cup" is all about. Perhaps the name of this tournament is throwing you off, maybe if it was called something else you wouldn't have these strange expectations for an exhibition tournament that has nothing to do with the IIHF.

This is going to be offtopic. What is real on it? NA U 23 or team rest of Europe are real? I agree with complains about too many boring matches in WHC and there might be less teams. Still it seems to me more real.But if I accept this as reality, then we should make distinction between this "Best hockey tourney" - which it is obviously striving to be, international tourneys and best of best international tourneys.

What would they say for example in basketball? Under that terms they would probably scratch even Lietuva....I agree players and teams probably all like it, but common, this simply does not reflect reality of int hockey. As a hockey fan I will watch it, if it is in reasonable time. I am also watching Hlinkas. But for people who associates int hockey with more than the game, i.e. nations, fans etc. I am afraid they dont get it....

It's an exhibition tournament and in that sense, it is "meaningless". According to some people here, every tournament the NHL has organized in the past is also "meaningless". Some have even said that the quality of hockey played in previous Canada Cups and World Cups has been bad, on the same level as All-Star games (they never watched of course). Me, I think previous Canada Cups and World Cups have been pretty awesome and the fact that they are "meaningless" hasn't diminished my enjoyment of those events at all - to me, they have been just as enjoyable as any Olympics and in many cases, much more so. I guess you could say that "meaningfulness" is in the eye of the beholder in this case. It seems there are many Europeans for whom the WHC>>>>>>World Cup and that's fine, watch and enjoy. When some complain about this other tournament which some of us prefer because the quality of hockey should be >>>>>>> the World Cup and call us elitist, they just make yourself look silly. And when they toss around words like elitist, they have no cause to complain when others toss around words like eurosnob (that's not directed at you, you have been a very reasonable poster). JMHO.


People can and will think what they want to think and that's fine. I just find it amusing when some people get angry and talk about what this tournament "should be", and how hockey fans in countries not invited are insulted etc. especially when so many of these same fans have never cared about these tournaments to begin with. The simple fact is, nobody has a right to "expect" anything and the more they talk about what they think they're entitled to and what the NHL should do etc. the more amused I get.

There should be some great hockey played, hopefully there will be no team Europe or team NA next time. If that happens, then it will still be a "meaningless" exhibition tournament but it will have more meaning for some people and I will be happy for that.
 
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JackSlater

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Apr 27, 2010
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Oh please. "Fans of international hockey" :laugh: I thought that you either are a fan of any Team Canada or not. You either are a fan of any team USA or not. Throwing those teams under the bus and not even watching tells me that that person is not really fan of his national team, which is kinda weird you know, when hearing all the international ******** here.

I would have never thought that watching Team Europe taking on Team USA is such a nightmare for someone :laugh:

This is just a ridiculous obsession.

Another typical poorly reasoned post. A fan of actual international hockey wouldn't support this tournament. These teams are not really team USA and team Canada, given the restrictions in place that are not present on the actual national teams in the tournament. The tournament is also not even an international tournament given the gimmick teams. Additionally, the NHL even claimed that the success of this tournament will be held against NHL participation in the Olympics. Only an NHL lapdog would even bother to defend this tournament. If a person wants to watch it, that's their right. To defend it though is embarrassing and just gives insights into how much of the NHL's crap people are willing to lap up out of their bowl.

No you're missing the point. You say you understand the NHL is a business and you believe in capitalism etc. but then you go off the rails and start talking about what "staging a world cup" is all about. Perhaps the name of this tournament is throwing you off, maybe if it was called something else you wouldn't have these strange expectations for an exhibition tournament that has nothing to do with the IIHF.

The defending of the NHL of the basis of "it's a business" is off base. No one is saying that the NHL can't organize this tournament in an idiotic way - they are saying that the NHL shouldn't. As far as expectations you outline, it's very reasonable to expect that the "World Cup of Hockey" that is being presented by the NHL as an international tournament would actually be, at the very least, an international tournament. Unfortunately it isn't.
 

Jablkon

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May 23, 2014
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No you're missing the point. You say you understand the NHL is a business and you believe in capitalism etc. but then you go off the rails and start talking about what "staging a world cup" is all about. Perhaps the name of this tournament is throwing you off, maybe if it was called something else you wouldn't have these strange expectations for an exhibition tournament that has nothing to do with the IIHF.



It's an exhibition tournament and in that sense, it is "meaningless". According to some people here, every tournament the NHL has organized is also meaningless. Some have even said that the quality of hockey played in previous Canada Cups and World Cups has been bad, on the same level as All-Star games (they never watched of course).

People can and will think what they want to think and that's fine. I just find it amusing when some people get angry and talk about what this tournament "should be", and how hockey fans in countries not invited are insulted etc. especially when so many of these same fans have never cared about these tournaments to begin with. The simple fact is, nobody has a right to "expect" anything and the more they talk about what they think they're entitled to and what the NHL should do etc. the more amused I get.

There should be some great hockey played, hopefully there will be no team Europe or team NA next time. If that happens, the it will still be a "meaningless" exhibition tournament but it will have more meaning for some people and I will be happy for that.

I don't agree here. People are fully entitled to share their opinion about it. In fact its NHLs intention to do it for people. Ad absurdum, if NHL shouldn't care about it, then some of the federations can do the same and simply say "we are not participating". There must be some mutual respect even to fans on int. stage. I can not support the view that some league can do whatever they want on int. stage. It just twists the enviroment. Your opinion probably comes from the fact that you respect NHL as a body of int. hockey. I respect that this tourney is held but, just based on principles, I dont agree with that NHL position and I dont think it's healthy.

Btw. I dont know about any people who didn't respect last WC/CCs. Sure, if I should evaluate it, I would put OGs higher, but just because WC is little bit too much NA thing. The sport result is +- same....
 

Mad Brills*

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They're also going to be right up against the jays in a pennant race 3 blocks away.
 

Canuckistani

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According to some people here, every tournament the NHL has organized in the past is also "meaningless". Some have even said that the quality of hockey played in previous Canada Cups and World Cups has been bad, on the same level as All-Star games (they never watched of course).

I agree that only the more unreasonable would regard the only best-on-best event for 20 years as being "meaningless." I loved watching the World Cup in 1996 and 2004 (not old enough to have seen the previous ones).

But the NHL has certainly given the critics more ammo by going insane on this latest one.

All the NHL had to do was copy the format of 2004 and they'd be good to go. But no, Kopitar just had to be there.
 

1Gold Standard

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Jun 13, 2012
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There's a presser at noon EST. hopefully it is to announce that this pre-season exhibition is cancelled.
 

Gary Nylund

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The defending of the NHL of the basis of "it's a business" is off base. No one is saying that the NHL can't organize this tournament in an idiotic way - they are saying that the NHL shouldn't. As far as expectations you outline, it's very reasonable to expect that the "World Cup of Hockey" that is being presented by the NHL as an international tournament would actually be, at the very least, an international tournament. Unfortunately it isn't.

I don't think it's off base at all, the NHL is a business and expecting them not to behave like one is crazy. I will again say that the IOC is the main culprit here and it should be easy to understand why the NHL will forego the Olympics (if that's what happens). The World Cup will make money for the NHL, the Olympics would cost them money. It's not complicated.

As far as the NHL presenting the World Cup as an international tournament, that should surprise no-one. As you've pointed out, it's not technically an international tournament but to the average fan, the distinction is moot. There will be players there from many different countries, there will be teams that sure look an awful lot like national teams, they will be wearing their national colours etc. and the NHL isn't going to come out and say "yes it's not an international tournament", they're not completely stupid - calling this tournament "international" is elementary marketing.

I don't agree here. People are fully entitled to share their opinion about it. In fact its NHLs intention to do it for people. Ad absurdum, if NHL shouldn't care about it, then some of the federations can do the same and simply say "we are not participating". There must be some mutual respect even to fans on int. stage. I can not support the view that some league can do whatever they want on int. stage. It just twists the enviroment.

Of course people can share their opinion, that's also what I'm doing. In my opinion, some people seem to think that the NHL owes them something, that the NHL has some kind of responsibility to do this or that and those people are off base - the NHL is a business and they are free to do what they feel is in their best interest, period. In my opinion, the NHL made a mistake with these gimmick teams but there's no reason for people to take it personally as some seem to be doing. As I've said before, I think they made a mistake, they will learn from it and next time around, there will be no gimmick teams. And if people really want to see NHL players at the Olympics, they should be boycotting the Olympics because the IOC is refusing to cover costs instead of boycotting the World Cup.

Also - the World Cup is not "the international stage" and as far as I can tell, the NHL is well within their rights to hold this tournament if they like, if other federations say they don't want to participate, that's fine too, of course they can do what they like.

"JMHO. :)

Your opinion probably comes from the fact that you respect NHL as a body of int. hockey. I respect that this tourney is held but, just based on principles, I dont agree with that NHL position and I dont think it's healthy.

My opinion on what specifically? No matter what you're referring to, my opinion "comes from" many different things. One factor is for sure that I have watched all of these tournaments in the past beginning with the 1976 Canada Cup and it has been the very best hockey I've ever seen. As a hockey fan, I appreciate that and am willing to forgive the NHL for making a mistake here and I fully expect them to get it right next time. Everyone makes mistakes no? And I will tell you right now, if the NHL does hold another World Cup and again has gimmick teams, I will be among the critics. I don't see this happening though.

Btw. I dont know about any people who didn't respect last WC/CCs. Sure, if I should evaluate it, I would put OGs higher, but just because WC is little bit too much NA thing. The sport result is +- same....

Well Jack Slater has earlier said the these tournaments have been largely ignored by Europeans, maybe he can give details as I haven't done any research on that. Perhaps that's not a lack of respect but it does make it seem odd if those same people are complaining about the format of something they have been ignoring in the past. And there was one poster who made a great many posts in another thread about how these tournaments are 100% meaningless and insisted the level of play was the same as the level of play in the All-Star games. This was all the more bizarre as he admitted he never watched the games, yes such people do exist. I'm sure he's in a very small minority, you know how it is, the people who don't have a clue are usually the loudest ...

As far as you preferring the OG over the WC, that's fine, they're both obviously fantastic and it's not worth arguing about. Jack Slater earlier listed some reasons the previous WC's might be considered better, I agree with those points but like I said, the OG is fine too.

I agree that only the more unreasonable would regard the only best-on-best event for 20 years as being "meaningless." I loved watching the World Cup in 1996 and 2004 (not old enough to have seen the previous ones).

But the NHL has certainly given the critics more ammo by going insane on this latest one.

All the NHL had to do was copy the format of 2004 and they'd be good to go. But no, Kopitar just had to be there.

I've seen them all and they have been amazing. Yes the NHL screwed up here IMO, I just think some are over-reacting. On a scale of 1-10, the gimmick teams maybe lower this from a 9 to a 7 or 8 or whatever but some people are acting as if it's gone from a 9 to somewhere below zero and international hockey is being ruined and hockey fans in some nations are being insulted and this tournament is the reason we will never again see NHL players in the OG and other hysterics and all this stuff makes me :laugh: and I just can't take these people seriously. Me, I'm going to wait and see how it all plays out, maybe the gimmick teams are out by the semis and we'll see some brilliant hockey in the end. Then again, maybe the NA team goes deep and then who knows how it plays out. Like I said, I'm going to wait and see, radical I know but that's just the way I am. ;)
 
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