Prospect Info: Way Too Early Devils-Centric Mock Draft For February

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ninetyeight

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Hate to say it but after all is said and done the Taylor Hall trade sucks. It’s crazy that Coleman can get a first and top prospect, but Hall got this complicated mess of picks. I have nothing against the prospects in the trade, but Shero put himself in a bad spot trying to trade him early. Shero getting fired made sense to me.

What? Both got a first and a good prospect, Hall actually got two good prospects since Merkley has looked good and the first rounder will be higher than Vancouver’s. Hall is also upcoming UFA while Coleman has one extra year at a really cheap price. I couldn’t disagree with you any more.
 

BurntToast

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What? Both got a first and a good prospect, Hall actually got two good prospects since Merkley has looked good and the first rounder will be higher than Vancouver’s. Hall is also upcoming UFA while Coleman has one extra year at a really cheap price. I couldn’t disagree with you any more.

I love Coleman but let’s not pretend he is in the same ball park as Hall. A First and Foote for Coleman is insanity. Hall didn’t get a top tier prospect (even if you like Merkley) and everything else has strings attached. The situation as a whole was odd. You sit the player and he gets traded, done deal. You don’t sit a player and wait a week. At that point you lost all leverage.
 

Blackjack

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I love Coleman but let’s not pretend he is in the same ball park as Hall. A First and Foote for Coleman is insanity. Hall didn’t get a top tier prospect (even if you like Merkley) and everything else has strings attached. The situation as a whole was odd. You sit the player and he gets traded, done deal. You don’t sit a player and wait a week. At that point you lost all leverage.

Correct, the Coleman trade looks really bad right now, so you can't compare it to the Hall deal and say we did poorly. No one was giving up multiple 1sts for Hall, and no one was going to give up a top 40 prospect. With Bahl we got a good defensive prospect with upsdide, and we got a 1st rounder that is currently 10th overall. What do you think we should have gotten for Hall?

Edit: To be clear, when I say the Coleman trade looks bad, I mean it looks bad for Tampa.
 

Call Me Al

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yeah it’s looking amazing for us but it’s surprising because coleman just seems like the kind of guy who would be successful anywhere with his style and motor
 

Scooooooooooooot

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Tampa had to acquire middle 6 utility players that are cheap, goodrow and coleman provide them with a lot of flexibility and with some player types they havent had much of in their past runs. If Tampa wins the cup then its a great trade for them and for us. also Kevin Bahl, Merkeley, a first that could be top 10 and a 3rd with conditions is a great trade. Is Timmins and a 1st that could be 28-32 overall a better trade for us? I dont believe so.
 
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Billdo

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Instead of complaining about the return for Hall when comparing it to the Coleman deal why don't we just say we trade Hall, Coleman, and Speers for a two 1sts, a conditional 3rd, Nolan Foote, Bahl, Merkley, and Schnarr.
 
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ChicksDigTheTrap

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I love Coleman but let’s not pretend he is in the same ball park as Hall. A First and Foote for Coleman is insanity. Hall didn’t get a top tier prospect (even if you like Merkley) and everything else has strings attached. The situation as a whole was odd. You sit the player and he gets traded, done deal. You don’t sit a player and wait a week. At that point you lost all leverage.
You are right - there is no comparison between the two. Coleman is on one of the best value contracts in the league and has one more year remaining. Hall will be testing UFA after this season. Coleman should return more in a trade IMO.
 

ChicksDigTheTrap

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Instead of complaining about the return for Hall when comparing it to the Coleman deal why don't we just say we trade Hall, Coleman, and Speers for a two 1sts, a conditional 3rd, Nolan Foote, Bahl, Merkley, and Schnarr.
IMO the Devil got a great return for 4 months of Hall. The Devils record improved in the short run and got assets for the long term.
 
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Nubmer6

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Honestly outside of baseball, hockey has to be one of the hardest drafts to get right.
Aren't they the only 2 sports that pick players out of high school instead of college (with a few exceptions)? Those extra few years clarify a lot.
 
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Nubmer6

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An interesting question in my mind is this: let's say the Devils pick first in the #6-#8 range, and they take Holtz (who would be an incredible pick there). Then, the Devils draft at #11-#13 and Quinn is still on the board. Do you take them both, even though they're both goal-scoring RWs? I'm a big believer in Best Available Player, so I would probably take Quinn anyway. But if a top center like Zary or Mysak or LW like Amirov were also on the board, it would make it a tougher decision.
Looking at our RW depth, it's very possible both Palms and Gusev are gone by the time Holtz and Quinn are ready, and I'm not sure any of our other RW prospects are top 6 material, so yes, I'd take both.
 

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Hate to say it but after all is said and done the Taylor Hall trade sucks. It’s crazy that Coleman can get a first and top prospect, but Hall got this complicated mess of picks. I have nothing against the prospects in the trade, but Shero put himself in a bad spot trying to trade him early. Shero getting fired made sense to me.
I don’t understand what “complicated mess of picks” means. There’s one pick and it’s a 1st too.

edit: I forgot the 3rd but that’s a typical conditional throw in. The Arizona pick is going likely to be a remarkably early 2020 1st, I don’t see how getting that pick is somehow bad or worse than Van’s.
 
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BurntToast

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I don’t understand what “complicated mess of picks” means. There’s one pick and it’s a 1st too.

edit: I forgot the 3rd but that’s a typical conditional throw in. The Arizona pick is going likely to be a remarkably early 2020 1st, I don’t see how getting that pick is somehow bad or worse than Van’s.

The lower the pick is nice but it also increases their chances of winning the lottery. There is no guarantee they will be as bad next year, especially if they get 1OA.

I’ll just chalk it up as Hall being damaged goods.
 

Blackjack

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The lower the pick is nice but it also increases their chances of winning the lottery. There is no guarantee they will be as bad next year, especially if they get 1OA.

I’ll just chalk it up as Hall being damaged goods.

And there is no guarantee they will be as good either. The pick could easily be 5-10 next year even if they don't win the lottery.
 
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Guttersniped

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The lower the pick is nice but it also increases their chances of winning the lottery. There is no guarantee they will be as bad next year, especially if they get 1OA.

I’ll just chalk it up as Hall being damaged goods.
The only teams that don’t lottery protect their traded 1sts are teams like Tampa Bay and Boston at the TDL. The Jets last year and the NYI this year both lottery protected their 1sts in TDL day trades made while they had playoff spots. So the only unconditional 1st anyone ever gets are very late picks that have a real chance to be 30th or 31st overall. I’d rather take my chances with the Arizona pick.

I’m glad that Ray traded Hall early if only because we weren’t forced to be on injury watch for over two months. Hall was held out of two game (12/13-12/14) before being traded on 12/16, it was only four days that felt much longer.

I assume the rumor that Shero tried and failed to get a 1st & Timmons out of Colorado is probably true. Timmons would have been a great get but Sakic ended up only trading a 2021 4th in-season so it’s unlikely he even actually considered giving up a top prospect. One of Shero’s strength was trading, he got excellent returns by staying aware of what’s potentially available from other teams so I doubt he misread the market for Hall in any significant way.
 
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StevenToddIves

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What? Both got a first and a good prospect, Hall actually got two good prospects since Merkley has looked good and the first rounder will be higher than Vancouver’s. Hall is also upcoming UFA while Coleman has one extra year at a really cheap price. I couldn’t disagree with you any more.

I think it's possible that people are still under the flawed assumption that the Devils could have gotten Byram or Newhook from Colorado or something. Though I am still skeptical of all the conditions Shero allowed on the draft picks, I think overall he did a very good job in the Hall trade. If 5 years down the road we have Bahl/Smith as one of our top 2 defense pairings and Jack Quinn (taken with AZ pick) and Merkley as two of our top 3 RWs, Shero is going to look quite good in hindsight. This scenario is not a pipe dream -- it's actually a strong likelihood (except for Quinn, we have no idea who will be available with the Arizona pick).
 

StevenToddIves

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Tampa had to acquire middle 6 utility players that are cheap, goodrow and coleman provide them with a lot of flexibility and with some player types they havent had much of in their past runs. If Tampa wins the cup then its a great trade for them and for us. also Kevin Bahl, Merkeley, a first that could be top 10 and a 3rd with conditions is a great trade. Is Timmins and a 1st that could be 28-32 overall a better trade for us? I dont believe so.

Agreed 100%! Also, I would rank Bahl ahead of Timmins as a prospect -- no slight on Timmins, it's just the injury concerns.

I don't understand all the skepticism concerning Bahl -- when did the top criteria for a defenseman being good hinge on their ability to score 60 points? I'd rather have Jake Slavin than Keith Yandle, I'd rather have Brandon Carlo than Shayne Gostisbehere, and I think any GM who thought the opposite would be insane.
 
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StevenToddIves

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Looking at our RW depth, it's very possible both Palms and Gusev are gone by the time Holtz and Quinn are ready, and I'm not sure any of our other RW prospects are top 6 material, so yes, I'd take both.

I would love to extend both Palmieri and Gusev. With Palmieri I think it's going to come down to term, and with Gusev it's likely more contingent on $$.

However, I wouldn't make my draft selections with this as a foremost concern. If the Devils pick #7 or #8 and Holtz is on the board, I think it's a no-brainer. It's my conviction that Quinn is the #10 prospect overall -- if he's available anywhere after that spot, he's the smartest selection. It's also worth noting that Holtz has played both wings during the past two years. His right-shot is especially deadly from the left circle on the power play.
 
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StevenToddIves

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The lower the pick is nice but it also increases their chances of winning the lottery. There is no guarantee they will be as bad next year, especially if they get 1OA.

I’ll just chalk it up as Hall being damaged goods.

Respectfully, I will say that I do not see your logic. The Arizona pick is looking more and more like a top 12 pick this year. You raised the perfectly legitimate concern of whether Arizona wins the lottery, but I study all 31 NHL organizations and that is not exactly a team on the rise. The 2021 Arizona first-rounder is very likely also a lottery pick.

The Coyotes are essentially capped out, which will severely inhibit their ability to re-sign Taylor Hall. They will be left with a team which can boast a very capable coach in Rick Tocchet, a very good blueline and two solid netminders -- but that's where the good news ends. They are perhaps the thinnest team at center in the NHL; Dvorak and Stepan are good 3Cs and Schmaltz is a borderline 2C. They lack the cap space to make a big acquisition here. At both wings, the Coyotes are very problematic. They have some nice scorers in Kessel, Keller and Garland but all three lack other dimensions to their game. I would go so far to say that Arizona is the softest team at F in the league. On the bottom 6 they have Crouse, Fischer and Richardson, but they are losing Richardson to free agency and I would go so far to say that their top 2 lines are the softest in the league. Their blueline -- though talented -- is not particularly physical either. Quite frankly, they are not a difficult team to play against aside from a frustrating and well-executed defensive system, they lack dimension and they are unable to score much due to not only these factors but a severe lack of offensive capability up the middle and a team-wide inability to win battles in the dirty areas of the ice.

What I'm saying is this: Arizona is a likely lottery team this year and they're a likely lottery team next year. There's some help on the way with talented prospects like Barrett Hayton and Jan Jenik and Viktor Soderstrom -- but they are all two years away from making a significant impact at the NHL level. In my mind, the problem lies with GM John Chayka; until he learns to weigh actual factors which impact hockey games with the same emphasis as analytic data, he's never going to ice a winning team, it's just that simple.
 
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StevenToddIves

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Considering how decent-but-not-great Hall has been in AZ, we got a nice return for him.

Agreed. I don't know what the numbers are exactly, but a friend of mine mentioned that since the Hall trade the Devils have a record in the top half of the NHL and Arizona has one of the 5 worst records in the NHL. But I am certain that the Devils have outperformed the Coyotes in the standings since the deal.

I predicted on the day of the Hall deal -- and Arizona was in first place -- that the Coyotes would miss the 2020 playoffs completely. I'm sticking to it. Coyotes GM John Chayka made a mistake by going after a star scoring winger when what his team desperately needed was a top-6 center and a top-6 capable power forward.
 

ChicksDigTheTrap

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Agreed. I don't know what the numbers are exactly, but a friend of mine mentioned that since the Hall trade the Devils have a record in the top half of the NHL and Arizona has one of the 5 worst records in the NHL. But I am certain that the Devils have outperformed the Coyotes in the standings since the deal.

I predicted on the day of the Hall deal -- and Arizona was in first place -- that the Coyotes would miss the 2020 playoffs completely. I'm sticking to it. Coyotes GM John Chayka made a mistake by going after a star scoring winger when what his team desperately needed was a top-6 center and a top-6 capable power forward.
I posted this in the team thread today. I used December 11 (Hall last played on the 10th for the Devils). Devils are WC#1 since that time. You can switch the dates around. Hard to complain about the Hall trade since the team has a solid record since they made it.

NHL Standings 2019-2020
 
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longislanddevil

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@StevenToddIves I’m curious as to how you’d rank the “elite 8” prospects (sans Drysdale due to his position) in terms of the following attribute qualities:

- shot
- two-way acumen
- vision/creativity
- hockey IQ
- compete level/motor
- skating
- strength

Can you also rank them from 1-7 based on:
Highest ceiling
Highest floor
Lowest ceiling
Lowest floor

If there are players in tiers below the “elite 8” that you feel warrant consideration for a certain attribute, please feel free to include them as a side note.

I’m looking to establish some differentiation between these prospects as I have Stutzle/Rossi/Drysdale (and Holtz is close) ranked so evenly. Thank you very much in advance!!
 
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