VIII. General Stars Talk Can't Stop, Won't Stop

[Klockis]

Well no doubt there's the necessity factor. If we want to make the playoffs then he's gotta play that much.

I was just wondering though if they have it in their heads to really push him to find out once and for all if he can do it. Saying, "This is what we want out of our starter. Either he can do it or....."

Sink or swim time Kari.

If they don't want or need that out of him, then it only reinforces my previous want for a different goalie (not gonna name him) to be his partner. Again, no knock on Ellis but either Kari can stand up to 65-70, we get a guy who can, or we get a backup who can play 25 to 30 games.

I think a defense in front of him would help everyone's cause though.

Dunno why we would want Voldemort in goal...

 

[TrillMike]

Nill on The Ticket. Missed the first part.

 

[tjcurrie]

Dunno why we would want Voldemort in goal...

Ha

 

[Brand New Stars]

Based on Bishop's year, it's time to let that idea go.

 

[tjcurrie]

Based on Bishop's year, it's time to let that idea go.

Oh that ship has sailed.

I still cry myself to sleep at night though.

 

[Brand New Stars]

Well that's perfectly acceptable.

 

[Klockis]

Ha

But seriously. We all know it's Khudobin.

 

[aloonda*]

link to nill on the ticket?

 

[piqued]

Well no doubt there's the necessity factor. If we want to make the playoffs then he's gotta play that much.

I was just wondering though if they have it in their heads to really push him to find out once and for all if he can do it. Saying, "This is what we want out of our starter. Either he can do it or....."

Sink or swim time Kari.

If they don't want or need that out of him, then it only reinforces my previous want for a different goalie (not gonna name him) to be his partner. Again, no knock on Ellis but either Kari can stand up to 65-70, we get a guy who can, or we get a backup who can play 25 to 30 games.

I think a defense in front of him would help everyone's cause though.

Personally I don't think your goalie should be playing more than 65 games no matter who he is. Closer to 60, really.

It has nothing to do with toughness or whatever, it's just the reality of the modern goaltending position. The target with Kari should be playing him every 3 out of 4 games. Keep him sharp, keep Ellis sharp. The team will benefit in the long run from higher quality play in goal from whoever is in there.

 

[tjcurrie]

Well that's perfectly acceptable.

I lack coping skills.

But seriously. We all know it's Khudobin.

You spelled Raycroft wrong. Cant believe we ever let him go.

Personally I don't think your goalie should be playing more than 65 games no matter who he is. Closer to 60, really.

It has nothing to do with toughness or whatever, it's just the reality of the modern goaltending position. The target with Kari should be playing him every 3 out of 4 games. Keep him sharp, keep Ellis sharp. The team will benefit in the long run from higher quality play in goal from whoever is in there.

Yeah no matter who your goalie is, you ideally have him at about 60-65. Nice to have a backup who could go above that 20 games or so. Even string together a chunk of games in succession if need be. Especially us.

Ive hust seen some be critical of them playing Lehtonen until he wears thin. Obviously at least part of that is out of necessity but Im wondering if theyre doing that partially to truly test him.

 

[aloonda*]

I lack coping skills.



You spelled Raycroft wrong. Cant believe we ever let him go.



Yeah no matter who your goalie is, you ideally have him at about 60-65. Nice to have a backup who could go above that 20 games or so. Even string together a chunk of games in succession if need be. Especially us.

Ive hust seen some be critical of them playing Lehtonen until he wears thin. Obviously at least part of that is out of necessity but Im wondering if theyre doing that partially to truly test him.

tj, assuming that they are testing kari for the future? and knowing how little goalies garner in trade----what if they decide he isn't the guy to move forward with? could you even get anything worthwhile from him in a trade?

 

[tjcurrie]

tj, assuming that they are testing kari for the future? and knowing how little goalies garner in trade----what if they decide he isn't the guy to move forward with? could you even get anything worthwhile from him in a trade?

I think so, yeah.

Bigger question would be, who the heck would replace him?

Not that they couldn't find anyone but that's something they would have to have an answer for.

I don't think replacing him is on their minds at this point though. They likely have more aspirations of building a better D in front of him.

 

[glovesave_35]

I know lots of people don't put much into plus/minus but in certain contexts I think it has some merit. So, on this Stars team, what (if anything) do we make of Nichushkin being a team leading +13 compared to Chiasson's team worst -15? Is it indicative of zone starts, role, opposition?

The main reason I'm curious is that these two players are the outliers. The entire rest of the team is somewhere between-9 (Cole) and +7 (Seguin, Jo Benn, Robidas).

 

[Phil Connors*]

I know lots of people don't put much into plus/minus but in certain contexts I think it has some merit. So, on this Stars team, what (if anything) do we make of Nichushkin being a team leading +13 compared to Chiasson's team worst -15? Is it indicative of zone starts, role, opposition?

The main reason I'm curious is that these two players are the outliers. The entire rest of the team is somewhere between-9 (Cole) and +7 (Seguin, Jo Benn, Robidas).

For Nichushkin I would say it's kind of a fluke. As someone on this board mentioned not too long ago,which I agree with, is that every time Nuke has a turnover or some sort of bad defensive play, the other team never scores. I do think he has been getting a little fortunate to not have his mistakes turn into goals against.

As for Chiasson it seems as if it's just indicative of his play in the second quarter of the season. Through the first 20 games he was a -3, and in the past 20 he is a -12. Only time will tell with him I guess.

 

[Elysian]

For Nichushkin I would say it's kind of a fluke. As someone on this board mentioned not too long ago,which I agree with, is that every time Nuke has a turnover or some sort of bad defensive play, the other team never scores. I do think he has been getting a little fortunate to not have his mistakes turn into goals against.

As for Chiasson it seems as if it's just indicative of his play in the second quarter of the season. Through the first 20 games he was a -3, and in the past 20 he is a -12. Only time will tell with him I guess.

He seems to get back if he does turn it over, or he just plain finds a way to get the puck back.

 

[Bluesoma]

Gaunce back with Texas. Guess that means Daley and Gonchar are back with Rome close to back.

 

[BigG44]

Gaunce back with Texas. Guess that means Daley and Gonchar are back with Rome close to back.

Daley and Gonchar were back last game ... of course who could blame if you blocked that gem out of your memory.

Also, Heika did mention that Rome was ready and joining Dallas in NY. This was a move that had to be made because Gaunce's next game would have made him require waivers to return to the AHL.

 

[Bluesoma]

Daley and Gonchar were back last game ... of course who could blame if you blocked that gem out of your memory.

Also, Heika did mention that Rome was ready and joining Dallas in NY. This was a move that had to be made because Gaunce's next game would have made him require waivers to return to the AHL.

Yeah, I....remember..that..game....*sob*

I'm biased in the regards of happy to see Gaunce come back though I thought he looked just as steady in the NHL as he does here in CPC. A few mistakes here and there but not an incredible liability though I may be doing selective memory here again.

 

[BigG44]

Yeah, I....remember..that..game....*sob*

I'm biased in the regards of happy to see Gaunce come back though I thought he looked just as steady in the NHL as he does here in CPC. A few mistakes here and there but not an incredible liability though I may be doing selective memory here again.

No ... I'm with you. I really though he was decent up here. I saw you thought he might be a 2nd pair guy, and IDK ... probably don't see that, but I agree he could be a decent NHLer.

Probably not in Dallas though. He'll be a Group VI free agent soon .. either this year or next because I doubt he gets the games he needs to stay a RFA.

It's a fair rule, but it's going to continue to hurt Dallas. They have so many young, decent guys that could play a 5/6 D or Bottom 6 role that we'll see more than a few in the coming years get lost on waivers and Group VI free agency.

The log jam at D is coming too for waivers. Connauton and Gaunce were this year. Nemeth, Klingberg, and Oleksiak ... maybe Jokipakka should all require waivers at the start of 2015

 

[glovesave_35]

Put this in the trade thread but probably belongs here.

I don't think I see what others see in Gaunce. I know his style isn't to be flashy but I was unimpressed. He looked like an AHL call-up during his time in Dallas. The game seemed to be faster than he could think it and he appeared to be physically outmatched fairly often. To me, if he's anything more than your 7th defensemen in the NHL then you're probably not going to have much success.

 

[Bluesoma]

Maybe I should have worded it like such "I can see Gaunce's potential high end as a second pairing."

Especially as I thought about it more especially, I wouldn't be surprised if Gaunce is gone at the trade deadline as part of a package.

 

[BigG44]

Put this in the trade thread but probably belongs here.

I don't think I see what others see in Gaunce. I know his style isn't to be flashy but I was unimpressed. He looked like an AHL call-up during his time in Dallas. The game seemed to be faster than he could think it and he appeared to be physically outmatched fairly often. To me, if he's anything more than your 7th defensemen in the NHL then you're probably not going to have much success.

I saw that in there, but I guess I'll comment in here.

I don't recall anyone going too over the top on him. I think the line between AHL top pair/7th, depth NHL D to a 5 or 6 on an NHL team isn't all that much. I imagine that small niche also is where most would put him.

I just didn't get that your take on him is that much different than anyone else. He probably is in the AHL or in the pressbox on a top NHL D core ... but I think he could play in the league for most teams. It's similar to the Jeffrey discussion to me. I'm not going to question someone calling him an AHLer if I think Jeffrey is an OK 13th forward.

 

[Jokipakka]

I know lots of people don't put much into plus/minus but in certain contexts I think it has some merit. So, on this Stars team, what (if anything) do we make of Nichushkin being a team leading +13 compared to Chiasson's team worst -15? Is it indicative of zone starts, role, opposition?

The main reason I'm curious is that these two players are the outliers. The entire rest of the team is somewhere between-9 (Cole) and +7 (Seguin, Jo Benn, Robidas).

I gathered some stats from Behind the net and Chiasson is really bad in some categories. The biggest reason why those two are the outliers is their GA stat (5 vs 5). Benn has the best GF with 40 so Nuke is not even close to the top offensively with 27 goals.

5 vs 5 Goals scored

              GF    GA
Nuke       27     16  =+11
Chiasson  20     32  =-12

So, Chiasson has been scored against twice as much as Nuke, and only Dillon is worse in that category with 34 GA.

GA/60 minutes

Nuke           1.87  
Chiasson      4.37

Chiasson is currently the third worst player in the league after Stempniak and Joensuu in GA/60 minutes.
Meanwhile, Nuke is the second best player in Dallas after Jordie.

Offensive zone starts

        Off Zone start% Off Zone Finish%
Nuke            53.0               52.6
Chiasson       55.9               50.5
Gonchar        61.2               53.5
Fiddler          41.5               49.8

Added Gonchar and Fiddler so that you can compare Nuke and Chiasson against the best&worst of Dallas. Chiasson is more likely to finish in the own zone than Nuke, despite slightly favorable starts.

On-ice save%

Nuke        .939
Chiasson   .857

This is where it gets interesting. Chiasson had the worst on-ice save% in the league, before Calgary lost 5-0 to the blues. Now Stempniak is the worst. This stat indicates that our goalies are playing at Vezina level when Nuke is on the ice, but suddenly couldn't catch a basketball with a nearby Chiasson.

Is this just hockey gods getting back at Chiasson, because he used to be the one with godlike shooting%? Or does Chiassons bad defensive play lead to better quality scoring chances? I think it's a bit of both.

Is it indicative of zone starts, role, opposition?

I also looked at corsi and quality of competition and Chiasson seemed mediocre in my eye, but I am not that familiar with those stats. IMO we can rule out zone starts, role and bad linemates. These stats show the same things that we can see on ice. Chiasson is just having a bad stretch and we can't blame anyone else for his bad +/-.

It would be a huge mistake to trade Chiasson right now. Other teams are going to look at these stats resulting in all time low value.

Nuke must be doing something good defensively and seems like a selke candidate right now

Edit: I only looked at players with 20+ games played

 

[oconnor9sean]

Brad Richards in on the ticket right now. Man I would like to have him back.

 

[piqued]

Jokipakka:
Nice post, but one part I want to take issue with -- players (especially forwards) generally are not able to control their on ice SV%. That will normalize. Chiasson having such a low on ice SV% points toward his high GA/60 being partly a fluke.

I'm not saying he's some kind of defensive stalwart at this stage, because he isn't. He's not that bad though. We see Nichushkin make defensive mistakes perhaps more often than Chiasson yet the team tends to survive them for whatever reason.