Rumor: Vegas: Local Rumblings About Marchessault Going On The Block

[VivaLasVegas]

they screwed over Fleury in such a way

That is very revisionist. Fluery and his agent made themselves a distraction because Fleury didn't want to split time with Lehner, and the Vegas organization thus dumped Fleury on Chicago, who thought so highly of him that they more-or-less immediately dumped Fleury on Minnesota ... to the chagrin of some of the Wild fans.

Vegas Golden Knights goalie Marc-Andre Fleury gets agent Allan Walsh to remove tweet criticizing coach Peter DeBoer

Photoshopped image showed Vegas Golden Knights goalie Marc-Andre Fleury being impaled by a sword with the name of coach Peter DeBoer on blade.

www.usatoday.com

Vegas has a reputation for treating players very well while they are here: So well, in fact that it actually generated a complaint.

Pacioretty slams teammates and coaches in Vegas over “country club atmosphere”

“It was weird... there was no accountability,” says the star forward.

www.hockeyfeed.com

 

[WhataKnight]

This is a fun thread……

Perhaps the reason why this story has legs would be due to Schmidt, Pacioretty and Fleury? Since the Knights seem to wear the villain tag so well, it’s an easy conclusion to jump to.

There’s some sense in such a trade, and they’d made such harsh moves in the past. My thinking after digesting this more is that it begins and ends there.

(Anyone still mad about Fleury should go back and watch the Montréal series. The team just flat out played better when Lehner was in net, since they didn’t have to worry about Josh Anderson teleporting behind Fleury in an upper bowl-level, distracting flash of light for what, like a third time?

This isn’t said to talk shit on MAF and it’s a shame how he found out about the trade. Just saying that from a Vegas on-ice-product perspective, they saw they could win with Lehner. Probably influenced a little decision making with Adin Hill, another big-bodied goalie.)

 

[hangman005]

Congratulations to Vegas, they won the Stanley Cup this past season. That doesn't mean they're going to win every year. Very unlikely they'll repeat. I can't believe a team that wins one cup displays this level and degree of arrogance. There are plenty of teams out there capable of winning the Stanley Cup this upcoming season. To act as if the National Hockey League world revolves around Vegas is absurd.

Well that sucks.

But seriously even as a Vegas fan that'd get boring, winning all the time. If we could lose every couple of years to Carolina.

 

[WhataKnight]

And let's remember one other thing, the team was set up to succeed from the get-go. They had the most favorable expansion draft ever. They were given every advantage to succeed.

Not Vegas’ fault.

MIN/CBJ/ATL/NSH: $320M total expansion fee

VGK/SEA: $1.15B total expansion fee

Besides the fact that everyone shat all over that roster (including me), they paid the fee for those rules, drafted a team that 9 in 10 called underwhelming it held its own against the upper echelon of the league.

 

[Ryder71]

Not Vegas’ fault.

MIN/CBJ/ATL/NSH: $320M total expansion fee

VGK/SEA: $1.15B total expansion fee

Besides the fact that everyone shat all over that roster (including me), they paid the fee for those rules, drafted a team that 9 in 10 called underwhelming it held its own against the upper echelon of the league.

I'm merely stating facts, if you don't like those facts that's your issue. They did not come into the league with the same onerous circumstances as the teams before them.

 

[WhataKnight]

I'm merely stating facts, if you don't like those facts that's your issue. They did not come into the league with the same onerous circumstances as the teams before them.

Did I not also state facts?

Ignoring the parameters of the Vegas/Seattle expansion may be an issue you have; it’s comparing apples and oranges.

 

[Fig]

That's why a basis of Marchessault for one of Pesce or Skjei makes sense:

Both sides are wondering about committing to the players long-term after this season.
Carolina has been looking for a scoring wing.
Vegas could use another D (RD if they want to move Theodore back, LD if not.) Carolina can provide either in this scenario.

The trade retools on both sides rather than rebuild and won't require significant prospects or picks either way, leaving both teams open to make additional moves later.

I was actually wondering if a similar basis could work with Calgary via Hanifin (Eichel buddy) or Tanev (similar contract situation as Marchessault).

Flames could badly use a top 6 RW... but we just moved Toffoli out... so I wasn't completely convinced due to Marchessault's age.

But combining that, I wonder if a 3 way could work, but I have no clue what extra pieces would be required to balance the value. I'm just thinking of a basis that...

Flames don't mind slightly older players and take Pesce (28) or Skjei (29) and commit longer term. VGK gets the younger player in Hanifin (26) who VGK might be more open to committing longer term due to age. Carolina gets Marchessault (32) for their current needs.

 

[Ryder71]

Did I not also state facts?

Ignoring the parameters of the Vegas/Seattle expansion may be an issue you have; it’s comparing apples and oranges.

lol I'm not ignoring them, I'm sighting them as one of the main reasons they could win a cup so soon.

 

[VivaLasVegas]

I'm merely stating facts, if you don't like those facts that's your issue. They did not come into the league with the same onerous circumstances as the teams before them.

That is true -- but that was also six years ago. Vegas could have made any one of a thousand missteps in the meantime which could have tanked them. Folks who said that Vegas was "gifted" a championship are talking out of their crease. Vegas bought the chance to have a competitive team in Year 1, and everything after that was their own doing. They could have very easily screwed it up in Year 1 (like a lot of folks thought they did at the time), or any year thereafter.

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

Vegas to Marchessault: do you think you're going to win the comn Smythe again? Don't waste my time.

 

[TheBeard]

That is true -- but that was also six years ago. Vegas could have made any one of a thousand missteps in the meantime which could have tanked them. Folks who said that Vegas was "gifted" a championship are talking out of their crease. Vegas bought the chance to have a competitive team in Year 1, and everything after that was their own doing. They could have very easily screwed it up in Year 1 (like a lot of folks thought they did at the time), or any year thereafter.

I mean they did make a whole bunch of mistakes, from dumping Suzuki over Glass in the Max trade to the Lehner signing, which shows just how much of a head start they were given. They just had a LOT of ammo meaning they could just start shooting wildly and not worry about running out.

 

[Ryder71]

That is true -- but that was also six years ago. Vegas could have made any one of a thousand missteps in the meantime which could have tanked them. Folks who said that Vegas was "gifted" a championship are talking out of their crease. Vegas bought the chance to have a competitive team in Year 1, and everything after that was their own doing. They could have very easily screwed it up in Year 1 (like a lot of folks thought they did at the time), or any year thereafter.

I myself never suggested they were gifted anything. But the assets they accrued through their initial expansion draft were substantial. Just very Vegas friendly. I remember seeing the boatload of extra picks they garnered for making side deals in not taking this player or that player. And to their credit they used those picks to acquire more assets like Stone as an example. They are a well run franchise. I would never dispute that. But they did have a circumstance that no other team had previously. I guess my point is that for a typical expansion team winning a title in six years is an unbelievable feat. In this scenario I don't see it that way. It's a great accomplishment but they had a nice head start.

 

[WhataKnight]

lol I'm not ignoring them, I'm sighting them as one of the main reasons they could win a cup so soon.

I’m really not certain what the issue is then…..all I see are hockey moves ranging from shrewd to desperate gambles, such as the few tougher ones which came about as either cap casualties against future transactions, redundancy, or someone expecting to still be “the guy” after being outlying deficiency in a Cup semi-final. These are all things other teams have had to do.

Regarding Marchessault, I’m buying it less and less - of the mindset that the rumor is as loud as it is because the combo of trades, returns and recent success makes it easy for fans of other teams to hate on the Knights and for people to see a bunch of freaking ads online as they jump online to either allege that Bill Foley signs contracts with the blood of children or defend their favourite team.

 

[Ryder71]

I mean they did make a whole bunch of mistakes, from dumping Suzuki over Glass in the Max trade to the Lehner signing, which shows just how much of a head start they were given. They just had a LOT of ammo meaning they could just start shooting wildly and not worry about running out.

Exactly right! They were afforded plenty of latitude to make mistakes and still come out rosy. But to their credit they did.

 

[The Hockey Tonk Man]

Well, that would be hilarious.
Feel like everyone signing in Vegas should be asking for a NTC

 

[VivaLasVegas]

I myself never suggested they were gifted anything. But the assets they accrued through their initial expansion draft were substantial. Just very Vegas friendly. I remember seeing the boatload of extra picks they garnered for making side deals in not taking this player or that player. And to their credit they used those picks to acquire more assets like Stone as an example. They are a well run franchise. I would never dispute that. But they did have a circumstance that no other team had previously. I guess my point is that for a typical expansion team winning a title in six years is an unbelievable feat. In this scenario I don't see it that way. It's a great accomplishment but they had a nice head start.

Agreed, but merely adding that Vegas negotiated with the other owners via the League for that right, and ended up paying an expansion fee that was many multiples of what had been paid before (as did Seattle). The League may have treated these prior expansion teams shoddily, but at the same time they basically got in on the very cheap.

If an existing team could basically buy a "totally clean start", completely getting rid of all their existing contracts and with a Vegas/Seattle-like draft, for $500 million paid to the other owners, would any team do it?

 

[TheBeard]

Agreed, but merely adding that Vegas negotiated with the other owners via the League for that right, and ended up paying an expansion fee that was many multiples of what had been paid before (as did Seattle). The League may have treated these prior expansion teams shoddily, but at the same time they basically got in on the very cheap.

If an existing team could basically buy a "totally clean start", completely getting rid of all their existing contracts and with a Vegas/Seattle-like draft, for $500 million paid to the other owners, would any team do it?

If true it’s just a bad look for the league.

 

[Mr Positive]

And let's remember one other thing, the team was set up to succeed from the get-go. They had the most favorable expansion draft ever. They were given every advantage to succeed.

That isn't saying a lot. Other expansion drafts were the worst. "Welcome to the league now take this trash".

 

[Detroit Knights]

That is very revisionist. Fluery and his agent made themselves a distraction because Fleury didn't want to split time with Lehner, and the Vegas organization thus dumped Fleury on Chicago, who thought so highly of him that they more-or-less immediately dumped Fleury on Minnesota ... to the chagrin of some of the Wild fans.

Vegas Golden Knights goalie Marc-Andre Fleury gets agent Allan Walsh to remove tweet criticizing coach Peter DeBoer

Photoshopped image showed Vegas Golden Knights goalie Marc-Andre Fleury being impaled by a sword with the name of coach Peter DeBoer on blade.

www.usatoday.com

Vegas has a reputation for treating players very well while they are here: So well, in fact that it actually generated a complaint.

Pacioretty slams teammates and coaches in Vegas over “country club atmosphere”

“It was weird... there was no accountability,” says the star forward.

www.hockeyfeed.com

Amazing how all knights fans adored fleury up until 2 days after he's traded.........interesting. Sounds a lot like fair-weather fans, but hey, that's just my opinion.

After being traded to chicago, he was contemplating retirement because he didn't want to go to chicago or play anywhere else really, most likely due to age and already accomplishing the cup multiple times. Then, chicago at some point assured him of being traded to a contender for another chance, ala Wild.

The only team that "dumped" fleury was the knights. Oh and I like that you glossed over the fact that he found out through twitter and the knights didn't even tell them...pretty good management strategy of treating players so well like it is a country club.

Golden Knights trade Marc-Andre Fleury to Blackhawks

The Marc-Andre Fleury era in Las Vegas has come to an end. The Golden Knights traded this year’s Vezina Trophy winner to the Chicago Blackhawks for the contract of 23-year-old prospect forward Mikael…

www.knightsonice.com

It also doesn't make sense that you bring up splitting time up with Lehner was the problem...

Fleury traded to Blackhawks by Golden Knights | NHL.com

Goalie third in NHL wins will evaluate hockey future, agent says

www.nhl.com

Golden Knights owner Bill Foley told the Las Vegas Review-Journal the trade was strictly a financial transaction. The NHL salary cap will remain at $81.5 million next season. "I'm disappointed that this was the outcome," Foley said. "I really feel terrible about it.

Hilarious that is was "strictly a financial transaction" when they decided to give him a contract that was so absurd it made no sense when it was provided to the public at the time, given his age at start time of contract.

So who has the revisionist history now?

 

[JKG33]

Look at other teams and how they did their expansion years. They largely finished last or next to last. In other words they had to pay their dues. Vegas had no such scenario. And it's not because they were World beaters in the front off. That's not to say they don't have a good front office, they were gifted very good players and plenty of high draft picks. And they basically had plenty of Leverage on teams through the expansion process. So look at the history of how expansion drafts go and how those teams normally did in their first seasons. Vegas definitely exceeded expectation, but again they were placed in a very good position to do so.

Dude, the entire NHL community thought they'd be dogshit. Just because they're smarter and better run than 90% of the league doesn't mean they were "gifted" success. SMH

 

[JKG33]

I mean they did make a whole bunch of mistakes, from dumping Suzuki over Glass in the Max trade to the Lehner signing, which shows just how much of a head start they were given. They just had a LOT of ammo meaning they could just start shooting wildly and not worry about running out.

They weren't "given" anything. They made intelligent moves, taking advantage of other teams stupidity. It's not like Bettman held a gun to teams heads (I'm looking at you Anaheim, Florida, and I don't even remember who else at this point) forcing them to bend over for Vegas.

 

[Ryder71]

They weren't "given" anything. They made intelligent moves, taking advantage of other teams stupidity. It's not like Bettman held a gun to teams heads (I'm looking at you Anaheim, Florida, and I don't even remember who else at this point) forcing them to bend over for Vegas.

Oh yes they were, you're being intellectually dishonest here or just don't understand the history of expansion in the NHL. They were afforded the most advantagious scenario over the last 50 years regarding expansion.

Heck even when Seattle came in they were the only team who didn't lose a good player. Yes other teams pocketed money, but on the ice they lost key guys to their respective teams.

They weren't gifted a cup! But they were given a head start. Vegas won the cup, that's a great achievement, very hard to accomplish. But lets not act as if they were a typical expansion team that wasn't afforded a great scenario by which to succeed.

 

[TheBeard]

They weren't "given" anything. They made intelligent moves, taking advantage of other teams stupidity. It's not like Bettman held a gun to teams heads (I'm looking at you Anaheim, Florida, and I don't even remember who else at this point) forcing them to bend over for Vegas.

Yes of course. I forgot. The Vegas front office is the smartest, most shrewd in the league and every other team just has no idea what they’re doing.

What else was Anaheim supposed to do? They were coming off one of their best seasons and didn’t want to lose up-and-comer Sami Vatanen. They already had Brandon Montour in their system and frankly it’s just the unfortunate nature of the beast for teams that did the losing and put in the work to assemble a strong, deep team only to watch some team come in pay for the right to just pluck someone. Again, it’s what it is and, as others have mentioned, it’s the benefit of paying such an exorbitant expansion fee.

They were given an advantageous head start and took advantage of it. Why is it such a hard concept to accept?

 

[VivaLasVegas]

But lets not act as if they were a typical expansion team

Well, actually, they are a "typical expansion team" now since Seattle got the same deal. The Knights and Kraken are what expansion will be going forward in the NHL. Yeah, measured against other expansion teams going back in history it is very different, but the amount of the buy-in fee is also very different as well. Those previous teams got very little because they paid very little. The next expansion will be north of $750 million, and nobody paying that is going to want to be placed at the basement because some fans want them to "pay their dues" by suffering through many bad years. Very simply, those "dues" are now included in the purchase price. Sucks for the fans of long-suffering teams, but it is what their own owner agreed to and their own owner will gleefully cash the expansion check for his cut.

Very importantly, the prior expansions were also pre-Cap.

 

[Ryder71]

Well, actually, they are a "typical expansion team" now since Seattle got the same deal. The Knights and Kraken are what expansion will be going forward in the NHL. Yeah, measured against other expansion teams going back in history it is very different, but the amount of the buy-in fee is also very different as well. Those previous teams got very little because they paid very little.

Very importantly, the prior expansions were also pre-Cap.

You're touting the money aspect of the deal, and that's ok if want to do that. I'm talking about the hockey aspect of the deal. What an owner gives or makes isn't my concern. And no Vegas was not a typical expansion team relative to 30 teams that came before them.

Nonetheless Vegas was set up to succeed as it pertains to the on ice product by the bountiful assets they accrued through the process. Far better circumstances than any team before them over the past 50 years.