Confirmed with Link: [VAN/NJD] Canucks trade G Cory Schneider to Devils for 9th Overall Pick - Part III
- Thread starter PG Canuck
- Start date
Lecavalier is still good for 0.84 ppg, so it's pretty asinine to insist calling him a top centre is a "delusion." Grabovski, too, was a great two way talent before getting buried by Carlyle. Kesler-like in a lot of ways. Still is, probably. Not sure what the hold up on him is.
I don't know what sort of numbers Luongo is going to post next year but he's been ridiculously consistent over his career and is coming off a light work load. I wouldn't want to bet against him.
BrandonL
Registered User
- Jun 18, 2012
- 2,496
- 11
Looks like we won't have to wait long for Cory to come back, the Devils play in Vancouver on October 8th.
Should easily be one of the warmest receptions for an ex-Canuck in recent memory. Well, minus the celebration / jersey ceremony when Mason Raymond returns.
Should easily be one of the warmest receptions for an ex-Canuck in recent memory. Well, minus the celebration / jersey ceremony when Mason Raymond returns.
Looks like we won't have to wait long for Cory to come back, the Devils play in Vancouver on October 8th.
Should easily be one of the warmest receptions for an ex-Canuck in recent memory. Well, minus the celebration / jersey ceremony when Mason Raymond returns.
I can't wait for Gum Night at Roger's Arena.
We better win that game against Cory. CDC will explode if Lu plays bad and Cory shuts us out. SHUTOUT
rune74
Registered User
- Oct 10, 2008
- 9,228
- 552
It is embarrassing how bad some of you have changed Schneider it to some messiah and Luongo some bum...
The stats I quoted weren't cherry picked as much as the other poster cherry picked stats against goalies with 10+ games where he as a starter was being compared to goalies with smaller sample size to make his argument hold some merit.
Face it, we had two good goalies, not just one. Don't turn the other into some slug because you are crying in the spilt milk.
The stats I quoted weren't cherry picked as much as the other poster cherry picked stats against goalies with 10+ games where he as a starter was being compared to goalies with smaller sample size to make his argument hold some merit.
Face it, we had two good goalies, not just one. Don't turn the other into some slug because you are crying in the spilt milk.
Two things:
1) We can only assume that no GM was willing to give anything up for Luongo. GMMG may have had lowball offers on the table and was unable to pull the trigger in order to save face, or he may have had offers from teams that Luongo likely would have vetoed.
2) Assuming that there were not in fact any offers for Luongo, not even a 7th round pick with Vancouver retaining some salary, we still cannot infer how the fraternity of GMs gauge Luongo's value as a player.
What we could conclude is that any value Luongo does have is outweighed by the toxicity of his contract. For Luongo fanboys who still consider Luongo a top-5 goalie, this brings up something interesting - if he is so good still, then his contract must be that much worse.
People like to bandy about the "asset management" argument when they say that they'd much rather have Luongo + the 9th overall than Schneider. But they're only considering half the equation, which is actually:
9th overall + Luongo vs Schneider + the value of being rid of Luongo's contract
If the liability of Luongo's contract outweighs Luongo's asset value (and this must be so if it is true that no GM would take Luongo for essentially free) then holding on to Luongo is a net negative. If you want to be optimistic, then say that Luongo's value and the suckiness of his contract are a wash. Then the deal is simply:
9th overall for Schneider
In a vacuum, do you do still do that?
And even if you do like the keeping Luongo route, there should only be one measure to judge Gillis by here, and it is a very simple one: did he get enough in return for Schneider?
ProstheticConscience
Check dein Limit
Yes and yes. We've seen some red flags with Schneider's game this year too. He had some stinkers, Ducks home opener, Oilers game, a fairly mediocre stretch to start the season where he admitted that he felt he was playing just average and allowing too many 3 goal games. He just got more games down the stretch to rebound his stats.
His performance in the playoffs was worrying, and it's not the first time we've seen some wonky play in high pressure playoff games. (nervous cramping in game 6 of Chicago series). Was it really a groin injury, or just the return of the infamous nervous cramping issue? Sure seems odd that he would be fine to practice before game 1 and then pull out last minute. If his groin was hurting, would he practice?
Schneider fans like to argue that he's a proven commodity and a future star. While he may become that, he isn't there yet. MG sold high on him in a down goalie market. He certainly got a better return than LA did for Bernier, who put up a .922 last season. To put the 'proven' argument in perspective, Luongo has more career SO's than Schneider has wins.
As for the bad trade value argument, I think teams would be more willing to take him on if we weren't going into a $64.3M artificial cap shrink year. Ryan Miller made it clear he wanted out of Buffalo, but they still haven't moved him even though he has only one season left @$6.25M. Does that mean his trade value is nil? What's Quick's trade value right now, seeing as he's subject to recapture too?
MG ran out the clock, and needed to get under the cap for the free agency period, and maximized his return on a promising netminder that wasn't without some question marks.
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You ask me, Luongo is the better goalie. Schneider has shown lots, he's shown himself to be a classy guy with a ton of potential, but he has done absolutely nothing in his career next to Luongo. Not to disparage the guy, but he does not have four playoff wins in his career much less a single series win. He hasn't shown he can play a full season at a high level. I think he can do those things, he has the talent and the mindset but Luongo has done all those things repeatedly for many years.
I know a lot of people in this area smoke a lot of dope, and even if you don't smoke lots of dope there's a lot of dope in the air, people can't remember a damn thing around here, it is known. Luongo was fantastic as a starter here and it was a blunder to appoint Schneider starter.
With hindsight, we can say he ought to have been traded before the Kings series. With an extra piece or two we could have won that series and trounced a weak field, with Boston, Pittsburgh, and Chicago all out in Round One. But we never have the benefit of hindsight in real time; who could have foreseen how that decision would play out? The important thing is that it's all over now.
Some things people don't want to think about when they're bashing Gillis over this trade: Schneider's deal would have been up in two years. If he played the way everyone seemingly expects, he would have been earning a million or two more against the cap than Lu will be. And another: only one goalie can start at a time. It's not whether Schneider is better than Horvat straight-up right now. It's whether Schneider is a Bo Horvat better than Luongo, taking into account age, contract status and all that...anybody has to realize that ain't the case.
From my perspective, and I have to say it is not the majority around here, my perspective is we were in a real tough spot and Gillis masterfully extricated us from it and got an excellent return. People bashing this deal, you don't get it. Trading one of our goalies for a decent return was imperative, you can only start one, it is known, and we got better than decent in Horvat, he is a Grade A prospect, OHL playoffs MVP, clutch, well-rounded guy who is ready for the pros.
Sure, we all liked Schneider, but if you're speaking executive decision-making at a high level, think with your head, not your heart. Bashing Gillis over this trade is stupid. It is arguably the best thing he's done since he got the job.
I know a lot of people in this area smoke a lot of dope, and even if you don't smoke lots of dope there's a lot of dope in the air, people can't remember a damn thing around here, it is known. Luongo was fantastic as a starter here and it was a blunder to appoint Schneider starter.
With hindsight, we can say he ought to have been traded before the Kings series. With an extra piece or two we could have won that series and trounced a weak field, with Boston, Pittsburgh, and Chicago all out in Round One. But we never have the benefit of hindsight in real time; who could have foreseen how that decision would play out? The important thing is that it's all over now.
Some things people don't want to think about when they're bashing Gillis over this trade: Schneider's deal would have been up in two years. If he played the way everyone seemingly expects, he would have been earning a million or two more against the cap than Lu will be. And another: only one goalie can start at a time. It's not whether Schneider is better than Horvat straight-up right now. It's whether Schneider is a Bo Horvat better than Luongo, taking into account age, contract status and all that...anybody has to realize that ain't the case.
From my perspective, and I have to say it is not the majority around here, my perspective is we were in a real tough spot and Gillis masterfully extricated us from it and got an excellent return. People bashing this deal, you don't get it. Trading one of our goalies for a decent return was imperative, you can only start one, it is known, and we got better than decent in Horvat, he is a Grade A prospect, OHL playoffs MVP, clutch, well-rounded guy who is ready for the pros.
Sure, we all liked Schneider, but if you're speaking executive decision-making at a high level, think with your head, not your heart. Bashing Gillis over this trade is stupid. It is arguably the best thing he's done since he got the job.
Addison Rae
Registered User
Same. Again I hate the way the situation was handled and also thought we could have gotten more for Schneider, but the net gain from the trade was far from the worst part.
Diamonddog01
Diamond in the rough
Not me. I'd much rather have Schneids than Luongo and Horvat. Better goalie vs a worse one a prospect who won't make an impact for at least 2 years.
Luongos Knob
PDO Kings
- Jan 20, 2009
- 4,279
- 543
What was the offer from edmonton? was it their 1st+2nd+top prospect? or was that the asking price for schnieder to go to edmonton?
I believe it was revealed that their 1st++ was what Gillis was asking for, Edmonton never offered that.
Royal Canuck
Taco Enthusiast
Damn it, I saw the trade confirmed with link and thought a trade went down only to find it was a new Schneider thread. 
Pip
Registered User
Something interesting to note, most NJ fans expect Brodeur to get more starts than Schneids this year which is not what I expect at all. Perhaps that will change once Devils' fans see him play more, but if Cory doesn't get the starting job that means he only gets one year before he's a UFA.
I know if I'm Cory, I don't want to go through this ordeal with the Canucks only to be traded to team where I am the backup again.
I know if I'm Cory, I don't want to go through this ordeal with the Canucks only to be traded to team where I am the backup again.
Barney Gumble
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- Jan 2, 2007
- 22,711
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Reverend Mayhem
Lowly Serf/Reluctant Cuckold
Allegedly the package was 7th overall, 2nd round pick + "top prospect". I don't really consider Paajarvi/Klefbom/whoever a top prospect though.
And there is just something too shady about that rumour.
Reverend Mayhem
Lowly Serf/Reluctant Cuckold
I suspect the Oilers weren't even up for giving their 7th overall for Schneider, but I can't prove that.
Reverend Mayhem
Lowly Serf/Reluctant Cuckold
Barney Gumble
Registered User
- Jan 2, 2007
- 22,711
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I frankly don't buy that rumor. Sounds too good (re: trade value we'd be getting) to be true.
