Confirmed with Link: [VAN/CAR] Canucks acquire 2015 3rd (66TH OA), 2016 7th for G Eddie Lack | Pt 2

[NoShowWilly]

Because Markstrom's two years younger and more athletic than Eddie. At the age of 24/25 Lack played 13 games in an injured season (hips) for Chicago in the AHL and put up a .899 sv% while playing 706 minutes 338 shots, at the age of 23/24 he played 46 games again for Chicago in the AHL putting up a .925 sv% 2703 minutes played 1283 shots.

At the age of 24/25 Markstrom put up a .934 sv% while playing 1880 minutes 836 shots. At the age of 23/24 Markstrom again played in the American league putting up a .918 sv% 1688 minutes 803 shots.

They're essentially the same goaltender with Markstrom being more athletic, even Lack admits to that, and you get more RFA seasons out of him. If he's brought along properly, instead of being thrown to the wolves like he was in Florida, he should gain confidence and be really good at the NHL level.

Guys from ingoal magazine have Eddie Lack as the highest upside of the three. i guess all we can do si wait and see.

 

[FroshaugFan2]

Because Markstrom's two years younger and more athletic than Eddie. At the age of 24/25 Lack played 13 games in an injured season (hips) for Chicago in the AHL and put up a .899 sv% while playing 706 minutes 338 shots, at the age of 23/24 he played 46 games again for Chicago in the AHL putting up a .925 sv% 2703 minutes played 1283 shots.

At the age of 24/25 Markstrom put up a .934 sv% while playing 1880 minutes 836 shots. At the age of 23/24 Markstrom again played in the American league putting up a .918 sv% 1688 minutes 803 shots.

They're essentially the same goaltender with Markstrom being more athletic, even Lack admits to that, and you get more RFA seasons out of him. If he's brought along properly, instead of being thrown to the wolves like he was in Florida, he should gain confidence and be really good at the NHL level.

If they are the same goaltender, with Markstrom being the better athlete, then how come Lack is soooo much better in the NHL? Like not even close to being remotely comparable in the NHL, where Lack is a decent starter and Markstrom hasn't shown to be a capable backup.

And even with Lack's injury troubles in 2012-13 and Markstrom's dominant 2014-15 season, Lack still has the better career AHL SV%. Shouldn't the higher upside more athletic goalie at least be better in the AHL?

I value Lack's ability to save pucks over Markstrom's athletic ability. YMMV

 

[Freakshow]

If they are the same goaltender, with Markstrom being the better athlete, then how come Lack is soooo much better in the NHL? Like not even close to being remotely comparable in the NHL, where Lack is a decent starter and Markstrom hasn't shown to be a capable backup.

And even with Lack's injury troubles in 2012-13 and Markstrom's dominant 2014-15 season, Lack still has the better career AHL SV%. Shouldn't the higher upside more athletic goalie at least be better in the AHL?

I value Lack's ability to save pucks over Markstrom's athletic ability. YMMV

Well it's quite obvious, to me anyways, in that Markstrom played his first NHL game at the age of 21, on a poor Florida team, where as Lack was 25 before he ever got an NHL start. Being developed properly goes a long ways in your performance.

And I don't think Lack has a better career AHL sv%, might wanna check that. Adjusted save percentage is a more accurate way of looking at their ability to save the puck as well.

 

[thedean]

Your first mistake is actually believing the Canucks will remain competitive, they can't, Bennning may outwardly say that, but he knows as well as you and I after last season's playoffs that this team can't compete as is. To which he's also outwardly stated the team needs to get younger, faster and more physical.

you have got to be kidding me.

First I have no dillusions about this team, I've wanted a rebuild for 2 years. In that regard I don't mind trading Lack because it makes the team worse.

Having said that if we've gotten to the point that Benning is so bad we're now pretending it's some sort of secret tank that's pretty scary.

Benning is absolutely trying to make this team stronger, and he's doing this. My issue isn't with what has happened, it's the intention behind it. This buffoon actually believes keeping Miller over Lack makes the team more competitive, that's horrifying.

The competence of this current management group just got exposed for what it really is.

 

[FroshaugFan2]

Well it's quite obvious, to me anyways, in that Markstrom played his first NHL game at the age of 21, on a poor Florida team, where as Lack was 25 before he ever got an NHL start. Being developed properly goes a long ways in your performance.

And I don't think Lack has a better career AHL sv%, might wanna check that. Adjusted save percentage is a more accurate way of looking at their ability to save the puck as well.

Lack AHL SV% - 0.923
Markstrom - 0.920

http://www.quanthockey.com/hockey-stats/en/profile.php?player=9842

http://www.quanthockey.com/hockey-stats/en/profile.php?player=7986

 

[y2kcanucks]

Disappointing return.

Not as upset as others here tho...

If Lack outplays Ward and becomes something better than average/mediocre... then i'll ramp it up.

At least it's settled now... Markstrom-Miller for the next 2 seasons.

Here's hoping Markstrom puts it together..
I think for the first time.. Markstrom has a roster spot locked... hopefully that helps settle him in nicely here...

Don't you mean when? Cam Ward sucks.

 

[biturbo19]

If they are the same goaltender, with Markstrom being the better athlete, then how come Lack is soooo much better in the NHL? Like not even close to being remotely comparable in the NHL, where Lack is a decent starter and Markstrom hasn't shown to be a capable backup.

And even with Lack's injury troubles in 2012-13 and Markstrom's dominant 2014-15 season, Lack still has the better career AHL SV%. Shouldn't the higher upside more athletic goalie at least be better in the AHL?

I value Lack's ability to save pucks over Markstrom's athletic ability. YMMV

I'm certainly not a huge unwavering believer in Markstrom's magical "upside" by any means...but this is a really unfair line of reasoning.

At the age Markstrom is right now, Eddie Lack had not had a single sniff of NHL action.

And as to the AHL play, it's quite evident that goaltenders do not develop along a linear curve, and the AHL is clearly a developmental league. What the "overall AHL SV%" number is, isn't nearly as important as the trajectory and end result as far as predicting where these two are headed. Overall AHL SV% over the course of their development isn't something you can really use to project out "who is going to be better" at the next level, any more than you can really use their comparable SHL SV% when they played tandem in Brynas. Development is a process, the ultimate measure is where a guy ends up...not where he started.

To say Lack is definitively the better NHL puckstopper because he's had the better results there so far, just isn't particularly fair or cognizant of situation.

I think the certainty either way, is kind of foolish, personally. There's plenty of evidence to suggest either may end up the better NHL puckstopper.

 

[Freakshow]

Lack AHL SV% - 0.923
Markstrom - 0.920

http://www.quanthockey.com/hockey-stats/en/profile.php?player=9842

http://www.quanthockey.com/hockey-stats/en/profile.php?player=7986

ok I didn't look it up but you're splitting hairs over 0.03 of a percentage? That's a reach.

 

[cometshockey]

Markstroms game has changed this past season. the canucks goaltending coach has worked with both Marky and Canatta and you can see the difference. both have calmed down and let the game come to them now. its obvious they staff really believes in markys game, after all they traded Lack, let eriksson go, and marky did carry the comets all the way to the calder cup finals. i was how ever shocked that the canucks could not get a 2nd rounder out of lack. but its a buyers market on goalies right now. and in any event, no matter how badly you feel about the canucks draft day moves, they certainly had a better day than the Boston fans..........

 

[Scurr]

Markstroms game has changed this past season. the canucks goaltending coach has worked with both Marky and Canatta and you can see the difference. both have calmed down and let the game come to them now. its obvious they staff really believes in markys game, after all they traded Lack, let eriksson go, and marky did carry the comets all the way to the calder cup finals. i was how ever shocked that the canucks could not get a 2nd rounder out of lack. but its a buyers market on goalies right now. and in any event, no matter how badly you feel about the canucks draft day moves, they certainly had a better day than the Boston fans..........

It's certainly a bold move by management. There is a pretty good chance he can be a good (.920+) backup, though, even if he's not destined for greatness. A lot of guys do it.

 

[FroshaugFan2]

I'm certainly not a huge unwavering believer in Markstrom's magical "upside" by any means...but this is a really unfair line of reasoning.

At the age Markstrom is right now, Eddie Lack had not had a single sniff of NHL action.

And as to the AHL play, it's quite evident that goaltenders do not develop along a linear curve, and the AHL is clearly a developmental league. What the "overall AHL SV%" number is, isn't nearly as important as the trajectory and end result as far as predicting where these two are headed. Overall AHL SV% over the course of their development isn't something you can really use to project out "who is going to be better" at the next level, any more than you can really use their comparable SHL SV% when they played tandem in Brynas. Development is a process, the ultimate measure is where a guy ends up...not where he started.

To say Lack is definitively the better NHL puckstopper because he's had the better results there so far, just isn't particularly fair or cognizant of situation.

I think the certainty either way, is kind of foolish, personally. There's plenty of evidence to suggest either may end up the better NHL puckstopper.

You're right. At Markstrom's age Eddie Lack had to sit out almost the whole season due to an injury. I think it's pretty safe to say if 2011-12 was Lack's 5th season in the AHL and if he was healthy then he would have had a pretty damn good season too, maybe not though. Even with that missed development season he came into the Canucks as a rookie and chased Luongo out of town. Let's hope Markstrom can do the same with Miller.

 

[mossey3535]

Guys from ingoal magazine have Eddie Lack as the highest upside of the three. i guess all we can do si wait and see.

This is one of the few times I disagree with Kevin Woodley on a goaltending matter.

Even Kevin admits he is biased because he was worked with Lack directly and of course it's no surprise Eddie's character and work ethic has won him over.

Having said that, Markstrom simply has more tools. Let's put it this way - Eddie's ceiling IMO is slightly below Corey Crawford but above Ben Bishop. Both of those are pretty fundamentally flawed goaltenders who benefit a lot from the system of their team.

TBH even Crawford is more mobile (albeit just as awkward looking, see his season two years ago oh him trying to be 'athletic' when what he was doing was just diving all over the place). Eddie will always be missing that 'X-factor'. No matter how much skating stuff he does, he will never have that extra gear of lateral mobility. And because he is such a systems goalie, battling and unorthodox saves do not come naturally to him. And despite his size he's hasn't improved a lot at overcoming screens.

So that is why Markstrom has a bigger upside. It's the tools. Now whether he can put it all together mentally is another question. But Eddie has shown signs of strain and mental fatigue himself, especially under the demands of this market (which he handles very well overall). I'm predicting he's lights out in Carolina if they can just improve their overall team defence a little.

 

[opendoor]

You could count with your elbows how many goalies in the last 20 years have had anything close to Markstrom's type of numbers before the age of 25 and actually turned into a competent starting goalie. He can have all the tools in the world, but they don't meant much if he can't put it together and stop the puck at the NHL level.

And the Florida excuse doesn't make a ton of sense. Lots of goalies come into the league on bad teams and still play well, and Florida's team sv% has been about average over the last 5 years. There's no excuse for a career .896 sv% no matter how bad your teams are.

Hopefully he turns it around but there's a reason he cleared waivers at the start of the season.

 

[Drop the Sopel]

And the Florida excuse doesn't make a ton of sense. Lots of goalies come into the league on bad teams and still play well, and Florida's team sv% has been about average over the last 5 years.

Okay, who are the guys that came into the NHL on bad teams at the age of 21-23 and played well over the last decade?

It's very rare for guys that age to succeed in the NHL, regardless of the quality of their team.

When Markstrom had high level coaching in Sweden, he was a superstar prospect. He went of the rails with poor coaching in Florida, now is once again considered one of, if not the best goalie not in the NHL with good coaching again.

I see a pretty clear pattern here. And no position relies more on coaching than goaltending IMO. I'm expecting Markstrom to exceed expectations in Vancouver. Will be interesting to see how he does.

 

[Verviticus]

I wanted to make the thread so it could be "benning trades lack for magic beans" but I fell asleep

 

[Verviticus]

ok I didn't look it up but you're splitting hairs over 0.03 of a percentage? That's a reach.

you said something that was wrong. why are you surprised to be called out

 

[Classless AINEC*]

Don't you mean when? Cam Ward sucks.

No Cam Ward, the gutless Oilers win the cup in 2006. Have some respect, kid.

 

[GPNuck]

no cam ward, the gutless oilers win the cup in 2006. Have some respect, kid.

.......2006.......

 

[Classless AINEC*]

.......2006.......

Our parents also are not the people they used to be. Still respect them, yes?

 

[GPNuck]

Our parents also are not the people they used to be. Still respect them, yes?

How was he disrespecting him? He's a professional hockey player making 7 million dollars a year he's paid to perform he is not performing.. He sucks thats what comes with the job of being a professional heavy criticism.. If you can't handle it get a real job and enter the real world

 

[Verviticus]

No Cam Ward, the gutless Oilers win the cup in 2006. Have some respect, kid.

no. go away

 

[mavstar]

Wow, this return is abysmal. I knew it would be disappointing, but I thought we'd at least get a couple 2nd round picks for Lack.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Läck will be the starter by December. I think even ward can see the writing on the wall.

 

[alternate]

Uhh, he already is better than average. He only got better with more consistent starts as well (as opposed to playing once every two to three weeks).

And yet no one was willing to give up more than a 3rd for him. Hmmmmm. Sounding like how Santorelli should have been signed to term, despite the entire league disagreeing.

Here's to hoping Markstrom gets more easy schedule (again percentage-wise in terms of playoff vs non-playoff teams) than Miller. Like what normally a backup goalie would get.

Have to build-up his confidence (I might be wrong but this seems to be the biggest issue holding him back).

It will mean a noticeably tougher schedule for Miller this upcoming season (if for no other reason, the Oilers actually at look like they're heading in the right direction; Flames got better). But tough ****; that's what he get's $6 million. I assume he should be able to handle it (I hope.....)

It was pretty consistent that Lack got the 2nd game of back to backs. This "easy schedule" narrative would be more convincing if Lack sometimes played the first game, sometimes the second. Other than the infamous "Lack should play" game, without checking I'm pretty sure it was simply "2nd game goes to the back up" which isn't an unheard of strategy.

I do agree though that this coming season, Willie will need to be a bit more selective. Ease Marky in, let him have some good starts early, and go from there.

 

[Derp Kassian]

Eddie Lack doesn't look like an amateur the second he steps on the ice in the NHL like Markstrom has. Rollie better be right about this one.