Raptors Discussion: v30: Chuckers Gonna Chuck V: ...Rudy Gay traded to Sacramento Kings!

[The Nemesis]

Also Doug Smith of the Star sums up much of what I think about the idea of trading Amir:

http://www.thestar.com/sports/doug_...r_a_lot_of_reasons_and_the_muppets_rule_.html

He has a valuable skillset, fills a useful role, is still fairly young (26), has shown that he will probably be the kind of player who is useful for a long time due to being able to adapt his game, and he seems to absolutely love Toronto. That last one is important. He may not be big name-recognition guy, but if you want players on the team who can sell Toronto to other prospective acquisitions/FAs, Amir seems like a great candidate.

 

[The Nemesis]

Is there a Christmas trade freeze in the NBA like there is in hockey? I can't seem to find the answer

There isn't a trade freeze in hockey. That was just something that Brian Burke did.

 

[Giuseppe Sallo]

^^ Drake is In charge of selling Toronto. He's got the connections. I agree with Amir. He is a useful role player.

 

[Cor]

There isn't a trade freeze in hockey. That was just something that Brian Burke did.

Wrong, the NHL does have a Trade Freeze. It starts tonight at midnight until 12:01am on the 28th

 

[socratic]

Also Doug Smith of the Star sums up much of what I think about the idea of trading Amir:

http://www.thestar.com/sports/doug_...r_a_lot_of_reasons_and_the_muppets_rule_.html

He has a valuable skillset, fills a useful role, is still fairly young (26), has shown that he will probably be the kind of player who is useful for a long time due to being able to adapt his game, and he seems to absolutely love Toronto. That last one is important. He may not be big name-recognition guy, but if you want players on the team who can sell Toronto to other prospective acquisitions/FAs, Amir seems like a great candidate.

I read this as well, and agree.

I know a lot of people are on board with the "no-trading" JV, Amir, DD.

If both of Amir and DD did get traded, it would almost be like someone asking me to cheer for a completely new team.

Those two guys really are the torchbearers in my mind right now, and if they go, it's kind of like someone saying "here's a bunch of good basketball players who are wearing the same jersey as that team you used to cheer for, you should cheer for these guys now".

I mean, those are the only 2 guys left over from the 2011-12 season (And dwayne casey, who also may not be around next year).

I know there's a desire for a "fresh start", but in my eyes, getting rid of those two is severing a big tie to our history, and I'd much rather keep them around.

 

[Erndog]

There isn't a trade freeze in hockey. That was just something that Brian Burke did.

Incorrect, there is a trade freeze of about a week or so.

You don't remember Burke always saying "I start my trade freeze earlier"?

 

[The Nemesis]

DeRozan wouldn't bother me a whole lot. He's improving this year, but he's still a volume scorer and those are not that hard to find. But for Amir, how many starter-quality 4s are there that are high-motor, hard-working, capable defenders, good efficient offensive players and have rounded out their game to include 3-point range.

 

[Puckstuff]

had box seats last night watched the whole game then when it was all tied up with 1 second left i went to the washroom came back and somehow the cats got a game winning shot with a second left? whatever i'm happy #tanknation

 

[McDeepika]

Is Lowry completely against signing an extension at this time?

I would rather keep Lowry for the future and trade Derozan if we could. Trading either helps the tank, and I think Lowry is a better player moving forward.

 

[DD03]

Kobe out 6 weeks..

 

[Kamal007]

There isn't a trade freeze in hockey. That was just something that Brian Burke did.

 

[Cor]

For the record, there is no Trade Freeze in the NBA

 

[Animal]

Kobe out 6 weeks..

And Nash out 4. The smart thing to do would be to bottom-out this season, imagine them with Exum.

Then sign a max free agent like Melo. Exum-Kobe-Melo would be deadly

 

[Eyedea]

Amir is the anti-Antonio Davis. I respect the guy for embracing everything about Toronto and actually investing his time here. Antonio Davis wanted nothing to do with this city and hated the thought of his children going to school here.

 

[Nasty Nazem]

Raps should only trade Amir for an overwhelming good offer and not for the sake of just trading him. Even if you're tanking, you want guys like Amir to instill some good habits and help the young guys out. If you can get a good offer for DeMar too, I think they should consider trading him.

People need to keep in mind than even on a really bad roster, there are still some good players and Raptors will be completely awful if and when they trade Lowry. They don't have to trade everybody.

 

[wulfio*]

I read this as well, and agree.

I know a lot of people are on board with the "no-trading" JV, Amir, DD.

If both of Amir and DD did get traded, it would almost be like someone asking me to cheer for a completely new team.

Those two guys really are the torchbearers in my mind right now, and if they go, it's kind of like someone saying "here's a bunch of good basketball players who are wearing the same jersey as that team you used to cheer for, you should cheer for these guys now".

I mean, those are the only 2 guys left over from the 2011-12 season (And dwayne casey, who also may not be around next year).

I know there's a desire for a "fresh start", but in my eyes, getting rid of those two is severing a big tie to our history, and I'd much rather keep them around.

So you're hung up on the torchbearers of a losing team...

I think people fail to realize, and it might come from not having played much sports, is that putting up big numbers on a losing team, is much much different than putting up big numbers on a winning team. You can either keep building around these leaders who are leading us to a bubble playoff team, or you can pave the way for someone who can maybe take us further. The fact we can't even crack the playoffs in the eastern conference should be enough evidence for us to want a complete turnover.

 

[wulfio*]

And Nash out 4. The smart thing to do would be to bottom-out this season, imagine them with Exum.

Then sign a max free agent like Melo. Exum-Kobe-Melo would be deadly

So you have kobe and melo that will be jacking up 40 shots a game running nothing but iso's, and a superstar PG who will never get to handle the ball. Ya that's a real recipe for a winner.

 

[The Nemesis]

So you're hung up on the torchbearers of a losing team...

I think people fail to realize, and it might come from not having played much sports, is that putting up big numbers on a losing team, is much much different than putting up big numbers on a winning team. You can either keep building around these leaders who are leading us to a bubble playoff team, or you can pave the way for someone who can maybe take us further. The fact we can't even crack the playoffs in the eastern conference should be enough evidence for us to want a complete turnover.

Who are you referring to? DeRozan, or Amir, or both? Because in Amir's case, just because he's putting up better numbers now doesn't diminish his usefulness to a team even in a reduced role. Because it's not just about the scoring with him. It's also the rebounding, the range he has on offence, the defence, the energy, everything.

and "complete" turnover would mean trading Valanciunas. I mean, what has he done here to make the team better? He wouldn't be getting the numbers he has if he were in a reduced role on a stronger team.


Yes, I'm being hyperbolic and ridiculous on the 2nd paragraph for the sake of illustrating the point.

 

[Joey24]

So you're hung up on the torchbearers of a losing team...

I think people fail to realize, and it might come from not having played much sports, is that putting up big numbers on a losing team, is much much different than putting up big numbers on a winning team. You can either keep building around these leaders who are leading us to a bubble playoff team, or you can pave the way for someone who can maybe take us further. The fact we can't even crack the playoffs in the eastern conference should be enough evidence for us to want a complete turnover.

Sports fans weather or not they played sports growing up for the most part know it's harder for players to put up big numbers on winning team compared to doing it on a losing one. Like anything it's always harder when the pressure to win is on, and to do it on a consistent basis takes more the just an individual effort.

 

[Joey24]

Who are you referring to? DeRozan, or Amir, or both? Because in Amir's case, just because he's putting up better numbers now doesn't diminish his usefulness to a team even in a reduced role. Because it's not just about the scoring with him. It's also the rebounding, the range he has on offence, the defence, the energy, everything.

and "complete" turnover would mean trading Valanciunas. I mean, what has he done here to make the team better? He wouldn't be getting the numbers he has if he were in a reduced role on a stronger team.


Yes, I'm being hyperbolic and ridiculous on the 2nd paragraph for the sake of illustrating the point.

Yup

 

[Animal]

So you have kobe and melo that will be jacking up 40 shots a game running nothing but iso's, and a superstar PG who will never get to handle the ball. Ya that's a real recipe for a winner.

Thats a bit of an exaggeration. Kobe and Melo combined take fewer than 40 shots per game. But i do see your point obviously

 

[Hyperglide]

Pasta gonna Primo...

lol what a dumbass. Not only does he have no heart but he's missing half his brain too..

 

[socratic]

So you're hung up on the torchbearers of a losing team...

I think people fail to realize, and it might come from not having played much sports, is that putting up big numbers on a losing team, is much much different than putting up big numbers on a winning team. You can either keep building around these leaders who are leading us to a bubble playoff team, or you can pave the way for someone who can maybe take us further. The fact we can't even crack the playoffs in the eastern conference should be enough evidence for us to want a complete turnover.

I agree (and I've played a sport or two), that especially in basketball - someone is going to be taking your shots. You could get anyone in the league to drop 20 points a night if you didn't care about anything else and let them fire up 60 shots.

I don't have an issue with someone coming in and taking a starting spot away from Amir or Demar. I am not saying they have to be the poster-children for the new-look Raptors.


What I am saying is that if I spent this season travelling out of country, and came home for the start of the raptors 2014-15 season, and Amir and DD weren't on the roster - there's really nothing I care about within the franchise. I'd have no familiarity with the players. The only reason I'd have a clue it was the same team is because of the jersey and the arena they play in.

Ultimately it's the people that make up an organization, and if DD and Amir were traded, I'd be more inclined to follow the teams where some of these former raps end up, rather than the raptors themselves.

 

[Kamal007]

I don't think trading both Derozan and Johnson is necessary for the tank, as long as Lowry is moved. I think moving one of those two plus Lowry would do the trick. Personally, I would prefer Derozan gone along with Lowry. Derozan to me is just mediocre at pretty much everything other than scoring. At least Amir can sort of be a swiss army knife and has those intangibles we all love.

 

[Animal]

I don't think trading both Derozan and Johnson is necessary for the tank, as long as Lowry is moved. I think moving one of those two plus Lowry would do the trick. Personally, I would prefer Derozan gone along with Lowry. Derozan to me is just mediocre at pretty much everything other than scoring. At least Amir can sort of be a swiss army knife and has those intangibles we all love.

Demar is only 24 though. He'll be in the prime of his career when the team takes off. Personally i think demar is a type of player you want when you're rebuilding.

I think people also need to remember that although this team is doing well, they have had basically no injuries. Hansbrough missed a couple games, thats it. So they've been really fortunate to this point. Probably unlikely that it continues that way, and a couple injuries can really kill this team