Hurricanes sale formally closed, Tom Dundon now majority owner

[Rob]

You think a Billionaire bought an NHL team as a hobby to see it toil in mediocrity as Cap Floor team?

Occam's Razor. Karmanos was a total hands-off dud living on a legacy and old, illiquid money. The new Billionaire will spend the money to take the team to the next level. Literally one of Dundon's first quote on the team was "I'm ready to get to work".

Usually a Billionaire buying a team wouldn't lead to so much delusion. Because it is in a market marked as a struggling franchise, all of a sudden people try to draw meaning from the void. Pretty transparent.

It depends on his view of losing tens of millions of dollars a season.

 

[Rob]

This obsessive nature and bitterness that some have towards certain NHL teams and where they should be relocated to is amazing. It's got to be unhealthy.

I don't see this kind of mindset from most NBA/MLB/NFL fans.

The reason is simple. Those other leagues do not have better markets without teams. Those league also have no problem moving teams from failing markets. That is why there is some much bitterness from other fans.

 

[GoldiFox]

It depends on his view of losing tens of millions of dollars a season.

Peanuts to an elephant.

Olympic-level mental gymnastics going on with this viewpoint. What is more likely:
1) Billionaire spends hundreds of millions of dollars on a major sports franchise and lays out the money to make it competitive
2) Billionaire spends hundreds of millions of dollars on a major sports franchise and keeps it at the Cap Floor because he wants to minimize potential losses

There is an impressive amount of bitterness, ignorance, and raw jealousy in this thread.

 

[WaW]

Some in the Canadian media do, absolutely, and its disgusting.... But dont paint fans with the same broad brush Gnash. Yes, some do, a small minority, they buy that crap but on the whole, no. Canadian media, some, particularly in Toronto where its highly competitive, they "say stuff", Neanderthal stuff, idiocy, purely click bait. Your wildly generalizing... Its like assuming everyone in Nashville wears cowboy boots, drives a pickup & all you'll hear down there is C&W when in fact... one of the most radical things you can do in Nashville is play C&W & if you wanna buy cowboy boots, be prepared to shell out some serious coin for high-end designer. People listen to all kinds of music, generally dont wear ####kickers or nosepickers, drive cars just like everybody else.

Fair re: southern teams, but there is merit to the Bettman = supervillain part though. I mean when you spend 15 years defending the situation in Arizona refusing to even entertain relocation, but then there's 6 months of ownership/arena unrest in Calgary and you immediately proceed go publicly threaten relocation out of Calgary, you fully deserve the anti-Canadian label you get as well as the scrutiny from Canadian fans. Plain and simple.

 

[Svechhammer]

Fair re: southern teams, but there is merit to the Bettman = supervillain part though. I mean when you spend 15 years defending the situation in Arizona refusing to even entertain relocation, but then there's 6 months of ownership/arena unrest in Calgary and you immediately proceed go publicly threaten relocation out of Calgary, you fully deserve the anti-Canadian label you get as well as the scrutiny from Canadian fans. Plain and simple.

Its almost like the NHL has done the number crunching and has come to the conclusion that the revenue from having teams in areas that aren't your typical hockey market helps bring in more revenue from TV deals than sticking them in what are already saturated markets. Its the same reason that conference expansion in the US collegiate scene was focused more on teams in regional holes rather than teams with natural fits. More TV screens = more money. QC doesn't add TV screens. Phoenix/Tempe, Raleigh, Ft Lauderdale, Nashville, Dallas, Tampa/St. Pete, Seattle, Houston.... Those do, and those drive TV and advertising contracts higher.

 

[Svechhammer]

It depends on his view of losing tens of millions of dollars a season.

The Carolina Hurricanes made money last year despite being last in attendance and missing the playoffs for an NHL-long 8th straight year.... So, I'm not sure there's much to worry about in regards to this not being a good financial decision.

 

[LeHab]

Doesn't the purchase of a portion of this team include some portion of its debt as well?

Would like to know this as well.

 

[Gnashville]

Fair re: southern teams, but there is merit to the Bettman = supervillain part though. I mean when you spend 15 years defending the situation in Arizona refusing to even entertain relocation, but then there's 6 months of ownership/arena unrest in Calgary and you immediately proceed go publicly threaten relocation out of Calgary, you fully deserve the anti-Canadian label you get as well as the scrutiny from Canadian fans. Plain and simple.

Teams are owned by individuals not the league. Arizona had to be taken over by the league to prevent a rouge element from gaining ownership. Plus Bettman has more than entertained relocation. The Coyotes were 15 minutes away from becoming the Winnipeg Jets again at one time, and did bless the Thrashers move to Canada. Calgary ownership is using him to get an arena started. Teams constantly threaten relocation to get arenas in all sports.

 

[VikingAv]

The reason is simple. Those other leagues do not have better markets without teams. Those league also have no problem moving teams from failing markets. That is why there is some much bitterness from other fans.

Yeah, they do. Every single one of those leagues have better markets without teams.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Call me paranoid, but something about this smells like haphazard arrangement to me. Time to take out my crazy jump to conclusion mat:

Observation #1 - With an expansion team having been purchased for $500 million in the recent past, in all likelihood the NHL was under pressure to not allow any franchise to be sold for under that amount, a value likely exceeding what some of the lower earners would've reasonably expected to sell for on the open marked previously. See the sales price for the Thrashers six and a half years ago, a comparatively scant $170 million.

Observation #2 - With the proposed split in ownership potential, one could make the argument that the prospective sales prices might've been closer to $250 million as the most that they could expect from local buyers given the financial realities of the team. We saw this drag out significantly in Carolina possibly as a result as well, with potential buyers hoping to haggle and Karmanos on a strict floor he couldn't go below

Observation #3 - The NHL has already announced that an expansion team would be worth $650 million for Seattle, making a likely new minimum sales price $150 million higher down the road.

Paranoid conclusion - It could be said that with these points in mind, the current and future owner(s) of the Canes could view this as a short term arrangement with the knowledge that they'd have half of a split for a $150 million bump in franchise value when Seattle joins the league, creating an almost guaranteed profit if they choose to sell the team down the line.

So yeah, I found a way to turn what should be universally viewed as good news for the longevity as Carolina in a stupidly insidious light. You're welcome?

Well, no shit.

I mean, billionaires don't buy depreciating assets. That's not what makes them billionaires. They buy assets with the belief that they'll appreciate, and at some point they, or their estate, will cash out.

Sports teams are unique entertainment properties because they're the only content out there that can't really be time-shifted. Which means they get live eyeballs. That's going to continue to increase the value of sports franchises. And that value is *independent* of ticket sales. Teams can average 15k attendance or less and still make gobs of money.

Both these things can be true:

1. Tom Dundon bought the team to keep it in Raleigh.
2. Tom Dundon bought the team low just in time to make an assload of profit.

 

[Rob]

Peanuts to an elephant.

Olympic-level mental gymnastics going on with this viewpoint. What is more likely:
1) Billionaire spends hundreds of millions of dollars on a major sports franchise and lays out the money to make it competitive
2) Billionaire spends hundreds of millions of dollars on a major sports franchise and keeps it at the Cap Floor because he wants to minimize potential losses

There is an impressive amount of bitterness, ignorance, and raw jealousy in this thread.

Neither of us have any idea what is future plans are for the team. We will see what their payroll at the start of next season. I'm willing to be they are still a cap floor team. Also, we will see what happens when the lease is up in 7 years.

 

[Svechhammer]

Neither of us have any idea what is future plans are for the team. We will see what their payroll at the start of next season. I'm willing to be they are still a cap floor team. Also, we will see what happens when the lease is up in 7 years.

Youre right, the young billionaire just bought a sports franchise without the intention of making it successful.

And if the BOG didn't allow the team to move now when it's at the lowest point in the league, they're not moving it in 7 years when things will be better (because they can't get worse)

 

[Rob]

Yeah, they do. Every single one of those leagues have better markets without teams.

Which ones?

 

[the halleJOKEL]

Neither of us have any idea what is future plans are for the team. We will see what their payroll at the start of next season. I'm willing to be they are still a cap floor team. Also, we will see what happens when the lease is up in 7 years.

there are two logical paths we can take to figure out how it will play out:

1) what is actually happening in reality
2) the deluded crazy stuff you want to believe is true

 

[powerstuck]

It is media driven from what I have seen. The media plays up Bettman as some supervillan and the Southern US markets as a bunch of fan less teams in cities that never even wanted them, stealing Revenue from Canadian fans that have to pay outrageous prices to support those empty arenas.
For some reason People in Toronto celebrated Winnipeg getting a team as if it's some national holiday. A freaking business moving was celebrated because one of Bettman's teams was moved "home". (MOD)

Look man everything is going to clear up soon.
Calgary needs a new arena.
Ottawa wants to move closer to downtown.
Coyotes wants a new arena.

Just give it a few months/years and you will see how the things Gary Bettman says differ if he is speaking about Coyotes or Senators or Flames.
City of Calgary should help build an arena or bad things may happen to the team. Someone in Arizona should step up to build a new arena for Coyotes but they are DEFINITIVELY NOT RELOCATING.

 

[MinJaBen]

Would like to know this as well.

It does include the assumption of some of the debt. I don't believe the exact makeup of cash to debt assumptions has been published.

 

[MinJaBen]

Neither of us have any idea what is future plans are for the team. We will see what their payroll at the start of next season. I'm willing to be they are still a cap floor team. Also, we will see what happens when the lease is up in 7 years.

Well, yeah, none of us read minds. Astute observation there. That logic, however, applies to all teams. In seven years, the Habs owner may decide he is moving the team to New Orleans because he likes the food. It's not like we can say he won't because of history, track record, what he says they are going to do or anything...none of us have any idea what his future plans are for the team.

 

[Gnashville]

Which ones?

Baseball: Montreal > Oakland
Basketball: Louisville > half their locations
Football: London > Jacksonville
just a few examples

But it's still an owner's decision to move NOT the league's prerogative to force team's to move. No matter how much you can't stand Nashville, Carolina, Florida and others having teams the league can't force them out if their owners do not want to relocate.

 

[Svechhammer]

Baseball: Montreal > Oakland
Basketball: Louisville > half their locations
Football: London > Jacksonville
just a few examples

But it's still an owner's decision to move NOT the league's prerogative to force team's to move. No matter how much you can't stand Nashville, Carolina, Florida and others having teams the league can't force them out if their owners do not want to relocate.

And even then, even if the owner wants to move, the league still has to agree, and the owners as a whole aren't interested in moving teams around anymore. So even if an owner wanted to move, it's still an uphill battle.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Fair re: southern teams, but there is merit to the Bettman = supervillain part though. I mean when you spend 15 years defending the situation in Arizona refusing to even entertain relocation, but then there's 6 months of ownership/arena unrest in Calgary and you immediately proceed go publicly threaten relocation out of Calgary, you fully deserve the anti-Canadian label you get as well as the scrutiny from Canadian fans. Plain and simple.

Well the city of calgary doesn't want to pay for a new arena.

Baseball: Montreal > Oakland
Basketball: Louisville > half their locations
Football: London > Jacksonville
just a few examples

But it's still an owner's decision to move NOT the league's prerogative to force team's to move. No matter how much you can't stand Nashville, Carolina, Florida and others having teams the league can't force them out if their owners do not want to relocate.

I would add Toronto for the NFL. And it's looking like Montreal will get the expos back before the NHL comes back.

 

[VikingAv]

Which ones?

NFL: St Louis >>> Jacksonville. San Antonio is, imo, also a better market for the NFL than Jacksonville.

NBA: Seattle > Memphis, OKC. And here's a prime example of the NBA being just like the NHL. An asshole owner moved a team when they couldn't get the money for a new arena paid for by the public.

MLB: Tampa Bay Rays have been an atrocity for years and virtually any city of a decent size like for instance Portland would do better. Oh, and the commissioner of the MLB is threatening relocation if they can't get a new arena of course....

All of these four leagues are the same when it comes to markets, arenas, owners, commissioners etc.

 

[SunDancer]

Its almost like the NHL has done the number crunching and has come to the conclusion that the revenue from having teams in areas that aren't your typical hockey market helps bring in more revenue from TV deals than sticking them in what are already saturated markets. Its the same reason that conference expansion in the US collegiate scene was focused more on teams in regional holes rather than teams with natural fits. More TV screens = more money. QC doesn't add TV screens. Phoenix/Tempe, Raleigh, Ft Lauderdale, Nashville, Dallas, Tampa/St. Pete, Seattle, Houston.... Those do, and those drive TV and advertising contracts higher.

It's a very reasonable argument ... just don't be surprised that as a result the NHL has a large number of bitter and cynical Canadian fans looking for a team to fail.

 

[MinJaBen]

It's a very reasonable argument ... just don't be surprised that as a result the NHL has a large number of bitter and cynical Canadian fans looking for a team to fail.

I don't think many Americans not located in the city that loses a team would begrudge Toronto getting an NFL team if they wanted one. It doesn't move the needle for most of us.

 

[Svechhammer]

I don't think many Americans not located in the city that loses a team would begrudge Toronto getting an NFL team if they wanted one. It doesn't move the needle for most of us.

Toronto, London, and Mexico City are the most likely next destinations for the NFL, because those introduce massive markets to a league that has already fully saturated the US. Even if the arenas are half full, the ability to sell the TV deal to those international markets would be a windfall for the NFL.

 

[MinJaBen]

Toronto, London, and Mexico City are the most likely next destinations for the NFL, because those introduce massive markets to a league that has already fully saturated the US. Even if the arenas are half full, the ability to sell the TV deal to those international markets would be a boondoggle for the NFL.

Boondoggle? I may be misunderstanding your sentiment based on the first part of your post, but a boondoggle doesn't seem to fit here.