Oh yes they can. That all came out in the Baissle debacle. The league says where franchises go, he cannot unilaterlly move it.
UPDATE 12/15 - Ottawa owner talks moving Senators: ‘If it becomes a disaster, yes’
- Thread starter Fenway
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Oh yes they can. That all came out in the Baissle debacle. The league says where franchises go, he cannot unilaterlly move it.
The fact that government employees cannot accept virtually any gift (and certainly not hockey tickets) from suppliers.
That is why Ottawa has the worst corporate sponsorship in the league (I suspect, I know it is very very low). 1 out of 6 people in the NCR work for the government (which likely represents 90+% of procurement in the Ottawa region), and they are forbidden from accepting tickets to go to a game. And most of the big companies work directly and quite exclusively with the government. That is not the case in other cities where companies routinely buy tickets, especially boxes, to entertain clients.
Even at my job, if I am working with a certain technology, and a company is giving a free workshop on their product that I am using, I can go, but it is against the rules for me to even accept a bottle of water. The rules for employees really are that tight.
Its the problem with moving downtown. The vast majority of good earners downtown are government. Hence the additional corporate support would be minimal.
This is one of the reasons they built where they did in the first place. Kanata is referred to often as silicon valley north. There is substantial private high tech which ash been a good corporate buyer for many years, and has higher paid employees than downtown who have been a staple of the season ticket holders. Even when Ottawa had a downtown arena, 2/3 of their tickets were sold to west and south end companies and people. Quebec and east end did not the support the sens,, hence why they could not sell even arizona level tickets downtown (crappy arena and team mind you, but in year two in the honeymoon phases thats not acceptable). Moving downtown, which for the next 10 years will be a nightmare to get to from the west end (you will have to take a car, then a bus, then a train), will likely see corporate support heavily dry up.
The bigger issue, by far, has been the meager government pay raises in relation to the increase in ticket prices. The current location supported toronto level crowds for over a decade, and only once the public service salary raises started taking on a big drag, did attendance sag. This is a major key for the downtown arena. If it costs so much that ticket prices have to be boosted 25%, then it could be a disaster in the making. If he gets solid government support and can keep price rises minimal, its a boon I'd think.
Or if they lifted the moratorium on suppliers providing tickets ......
Hamilton will never get a team. Aside from the economy having tanked in the last 25 years they would have to pay compensation to Buffalo and Toronto, which would likely drive the price to over a billion dollars.
In any event the NHL would not be heartbroken to lose Ottawa if it solves the Quebec City problem. Menelik seems to love creating PR disasters such as firing the beloved anthem singer who is a retired OPP officer. He knows exactly what he is doing and is betting Don Cherry will agree with him. Cherry said this a month ago.
In any event the future of the team becomes the lead topic on HNIC tonight.Menelik now saying he isn't sure downtown is the answer throws another wrinkle into this.
Tonight should be a glorious night in Ottawa hockey history but now Sens fans have to worry as he finally said the dreaded word relocation.
Fandlauer
Registered User
There's no way the league let's Melnyk relocate. As Bob MacKenzie said "one things for sure, the Senators aren't leaving Ottawa." Ottawa just signed a brand new 400 million dollar TV contract for God's sake. A few empty seats, which are caused by the asshole owner in the first place, are meaningless.
This is an angry lash out by a man being forced out of the league, and he can't be pushed out soon enough.
This is an angry lash out by a man being forced out of the league, and he can't be pushed out soon enough.
madhi19
Just the tip!
This is all sort of messed up. A outdoor weekend is supposed to be a fun event for the hosting fans. This genius could not keep his mouth shut for 72 hours.
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mouser
Business of Hockey
Wonder how much he makes off non-NHL events in Kanata. Browsing the event schedule, looks like he gets 1-2 non-NHL events per month booked.
Wouldn't any move have to be approved by BOG? I don't think moving a team is as easy at some think.
madhi19
Just the tip!
Bixby Snyder
IBTFAD
bert
Registered User
Quebec isnt close to as good a market as Ottawa, Half the population and a way lower average dual home income. People need to start doing some research. Melnyk is an absolute moron and the biggest reason attendance is down. I know hundreds of people personally that refuse to support the team because of him and him alone. He is not a good person, his treatment of former employees, and everyone around him is disgracefull.
The reason the negotiations are going to poorly is all his partners want nothing to do with him as he is impossible to deal with. Thats why his bid has no chance of happening, he has no money and has leveraged his other failing business's off the sens.
The reason the negotiations are going to poorly is all his partners want nothing to do with him as he is impossible to deal with. Thats why his bid has no chance of happening, he has no money and has leveraged his other failing business's off the sens.
bert
Registered User
There are buyers with deeper pockets that want to keep the team in Ottawa than the ownership group in Quebec. All of Melnyks debt is currently being bought up by the local buying group.
I'm not at all sure of how Canadian law affects this, but in the US, an owner can move without needing BOG permission. That's from the Raiders cases.
However, the BOG would have right to charge a relocation fee, which supposedly would be akin to the difference in the markets.
I suppose that the owner could contest the AMOUNT of that fee in court.
The right to move, and the right to charge a relo fee are well established in US law. As an example, when Norm Green moved the North Stars to Dallas, there was no league permission needed (see article on the prior page, I believe).
CanadianHockey
Smith - Alfie
Here is video of what exactly Melnyk told reporters
Eugene Melnyk says Senators could move if team becomes a “disaster” - Sportsnet.ca
Eugene Melnyk says Senators could move if team becomes a “disaster” - Sportsnet.ca
Killion
Registered User
- Feb 19, 2010
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Ya, duly noted & cant blame em'. Melnyk is one Hell of a piece of work, never trusted the guy, not since day one (and I mean even long before he bought the Sens). Nothing he's done or said over the years (and ya Ive been paying attention) changed my mind, merely provided further evidence that he's a total opportunist.... and I'm ok with that, he's done extremely well for himself, but as the Steward of a smallish market NHL franchise a disaster waiting to happen.
He not only wants a new building he wants the Feds to rescind their policies on sports & entertainment purchasing, sponsorships, gifting etc. Loosen up on the ethics concerns, get rid of them "or else". And while he himself is shall we say "ethically challenged" I do in fact have some sympathy for his position, dont actually have a problem with governmental agencies purchasing ST's, leasing suites etc provided its monitored.... To demand immediate total surrender as he is... well, typical Eugene. Bull in a China Shoppe. Zero patience.
Have you been living under rock for the past 25 years Hamilton economy is booming right now with billions of dollars in building permits being issued just in the past 5 years alone not mention the population of the city has ballooned to 767.000 & if you include the rest of the GHA. the population is around 1.4 million do to influx of people moving to Hamilton from Toronto for cheap housing & as for the price tag of an NHL. franchise in Hamilton you are looking at about $550 million - $650 million not a billion
then where's the ownership there, and please Andlauer isn't the answer..... I'm surprised the Bulldogs should've ceased operations once the Canadiens bolted, not been awarded an OHL Franchise, SIMPLY PUT Hamilton will never, ever, see pro hockey and is barely supporting the Junior team it has now, so STOP advocating for a Hamilton franchise, it's NEVER happening no matter what factual claims are made.
Brick City
Ignore me!
The Balsillie situation, if I recall, was approval of ownership, not approval of relocation. The league has the absolute right to approve or reject owners and to subject new owners to a set period not to relocate (I believe currently 7 years). Balsillie tried to circumvent the BoG by buying the Coyotes directly from Jerry Moyes out of bankruptcy. That was ultimately overturned and the league took over the Coyotes.
In the US, a team owner absolutely can relocate a team without league approval. The Raiders court decisions make this clear. I don't agree with that necessarily but it is what it is. I am not sure if this is the case in Canada of course since US court decisions don't apply there. However, the league is based out of NYC - if it is considered a US entity, it might be subject to our case law on relocation issues.
So if someone wants to relocate US team X to US city Y outside the 7 year period, there is nothing the league can do about it. Vet potential owners to ensure loyalty to a certain market - it's the best the league can do.
molsonmuscle360
Registered User
Quebec might have a lower income level than Ottawa, but as stated before, with the fact that most people in Ottawa are government employees it makes the whole season ticket/box thing a lot less lucrative. A team in QC would have a much easier time selling boxes and corporate seats. And trust me, I don't want Ottawa to move. One of my favorite parts of the year is a trip to Edmonton me and a friend from Ottawa make to watch the Oilers vs Sens each time they play.
Gil Gunderson
Registered User
The league doesn't seem to like relocating teams unless it absolutely has to. Atlanta got kicked out of their arena.
Unless the team is sold on its own and Melnyk doesn't allow them to play at CTC, I doubt the team leaves Ottawa. If they can find a local owner and there is an arena to play in, they stay.
It's probably just Melnyk trying to get public funding, but doing it in embarrassing fashion.
Unless the team is sold on its own and Melnyk doesn't allow them to play at CTC, I doubt the team leaves Ottawa. If they can find a local owner and there is an arena to play in, they stay.
It's probably just Melnyk trying to get public funding, but doing it in embarrassing fashion.
Killion
Registered User
- Feb 19, 2010
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Even if the NHL did stick to their principals in seriously considering Hamilton & charging them the same fixed price of $500M or $650M as everywhere else be it Las Vegas or Seattle, which I really dont think they would, they'd tack a "premium - high end market = higher price tag" on such a process.... you'd thereafter be looking at having to pay outrageous amounts of "indemnification fee's" to Buffalo & Toronto for geographic & broadcast territorial intrusions which could well all in cost the Hamilton owners a billion $'s or more JM.
But lets just hold the horses on all of that & get back on topic with Melnyk, Ottawa & the Senators.... Eugene is a Toronto Boy.... He tried to buy Maple Leaf Gardens from MLSE at one point claiming he planned to install the St Mikes Majors Jr.A Club which he then owned as tenants however MLSE included a clause that "no professional hockey teams allowed" and Eugene, he closed his checkbook up & walked.... Rather like Karmanos who had avaricious intent at one time in wanting to own his NHL club in Michigan, Detroit area, but obviously not happening though he did try it on, I wouldnt put it past Melnyk to try something similar....
Hamilton or a Toronto2 club would be his ideal. Return of the Prodigal Son, Conquering Hero, slaking the thirsts for NHL hockey of the millions shut out by the Leafs. I could see him trying to pull that off, absolutely. Move the Senators to the GTA or the Hammer. At what cost I know not, but he is an NHL insider & could work the system. He's done the NHL a lot of favors over the years, done some dirty work & heavy lifting for them so they might feel they owe him provided he's willing to satisfy Toronto & Buffalo, get a building going, reno the arena in Hamilton as a temporary stopgap. Let him move in there for services rendered to the League over the past decade plus..... Chances of it happening however I think slim to negative zero. We'll see. When it comes to Melnyk as others have said, all bets are off. Complete Wild Card.
bert
Registered User
Well no Ottawa has a bigger private sector than Quebec. Quebec is also a government town, if the sens are downtown with an owner that isnt despised by the city they are selling out every game.
The higher paying manufacturing job have been leaking for years, the population is maple leaf fans, and most of the job growth is in lower wage sectors. And the city is roughly half the size of Ottawa with lower wages. Economics do not look good.
With expansion franchises going for 650M, the cost will be a billion as Hamilton has to pay off Toronto and Buffalo and that will not be cheap, likely 500M alone. In 2014 the cost was estimated at 1.2B for a second Toronto franchise, and this is likely just as expensive due to paying off two teams, not one.
Balsillie wasn't an owner at the time, that's why they were able to block him. Melnyk is a current owner. This is looking like the same situation as the North Stars to Dallas.
Technically yes, but they can't actually block him I believe.
