Unofficial 230+ Pages of the CBA [You're Welcome]

[Captain Ron]

It is nice to have the answers to those nagging questions finally available.

Thanks skk_82

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Other things I've gleamed so far (explanations to come later by me or someone else):

-- How long teams have to sign players once drafted (not the 2 years we all were led to believe UNLESS you're a player not in college or the Major Juniors - then it really is 2 years)
-- Group 5 Free Agents still exist (I think these definitions are largely unchanged)
-- The thresholds that define the compensation for signing Group 2 Free Agents (RFA's) increase as the average league salary increases (or decreases, whichever may be the case)
-- Players on conditioning assignments are still part of the team's active roster (and thus would presumably still count in the salary cap calculations - I haven't gotten that far ... yet)
-- How waivers work (the order is by point percentage from worst to first; if you make a claim and get the player, you do not go to the bottom of the list). I'm still working on some details here.
-- The NHLPA granted to the NHL the option to have a preliminary round before the playoffs in either '05-06 or '06-07. This would be the 7-10 scenario mentioned earlier in the season by Bob McKenzie, the series would be no more than best-of-3.
-- A lot of examples
-- If a player gets into trouble but avoids trouble for the next 18 months before getting into trouble again, he is treated as a first-time offender for that 2nd incident (meaning the discipline part of the CBA still appears to be *very* lax)

I'm now digging into Articles 49 and 50, where the good stuff is.

 

[Sam]

First off, thank you, skk_82.


If I'm reading this right, it looks like the four accrued seasons requirement doesn't apply for this offseason or the next one.

For (A) the 2005-06 League Year, any Player who is 31 years of age or older and has four (4) Accrued Seasons as of June 30 of the end of the 2004-05 League Year, (B) the 2006-07 League Year, any Player who either has eight (8) Accrued Seasons or is 29 years of age or older as of June 30 of the end of the 2005-06 League Year, (C) the 2007-08 League Year, any Player who either has seven (7) Accrued Seasons or is 28 Years of age or older as of June 30 of the end of the 2006-07 League Year, and (D) the 2008-09, 2009-10, 2010-11 League Years, any Player who either has seven (7) Accrued Seasons or is 27 years of age or older as of June 30 of the end of the 2007-08, 2008-09, 2009-10 League Year, as the case may be, and in either case has four (4) Accrued Seasons or more on June 30 of the end of the applicable League Year, shall, if his most recent SPC has expired, with such expiry occurring either as of June 30 of the applicable League Year or June 30 of any prior League Year, become an Unrestricted Free Agent.

 

[Flukeshot]

13.11 No Loans to East Coast Hockey League. A Player who is not in the Entry Level System may not be Loaned to the East Coast Hockey League without his consent.

Did this exist in the last CBA? An interesting bit if not.

 

[Captain Ron]

First off, thank you, skk_82.


If I'm reading this right, it looks like the four accrued seasons requirement doesn't apply for this offseason or the next one.

You aren't reading it correctly.

Originally Posted by 10.1(a)(i)
For (A) the 2005-06 League Year, any Player who is 31 years of age or older and has four (4) Accrued Seasons as of June 30 of the end of the 2004-05 League Year, (B) the 2006-07 League Year, any Player who either has eight (8) Accrued Seasons or is 29 years of age or older as of June 30 of the end of the 2005-06 League Year, (C) the 2007-08 League Year, any Player who either has seven (7) Accrued Seasons or is 28 Years of age or older as of June 30 of the end of the 2006-07 League Year, and (D) the 2008-09, 2009-10, 2010-11 League Years, any Player who either has seven (7) Accrued Seasons or is 27 years of age or older as of June 30 of the end of the 2007-08, 2008-09, 2009-10 League Year, as the case may be, and in either case has four (4) Accrued Seasons or more on June 30 of the end of the applicable League Year, shall, if his most recent SPC has expired, with such expiry occurring either as of June 30 of the applicable League Year or June 30 of any prior League Year, become an Unrestricted Free Agent.

 

[Captain Ron]

I am sure alot of us here already knew this...but it confirms what we have already thought and answers some of the questions about if a player can sign a contract for the 20% limit and have that amount adjust each year.

50.6 Maximum Player Salary and Bonuses; Fixed Dollar Amount of Player Salary.
(a) No SPC may provide for a total aggregate Player Salary and Bonuses that is in excess of twenty (20) percent of the Upper Limit for any League Year (the "Maximum Player Salary and Bonuses"). For a Player signing a multi-year SPC pursuant to which he receives the Maximum Player Salary and Bonuses in any League Year during the term of such SPC, the Maximum Player Salary and Bonuses for every League Year covered by the multi-year SPC shall be based upon the Upper Limit at the time the SPC was signed.

Illustration: Assume the Upper Limit is $40 million. A Player may sign an SPC for up to $8 million a year in aggregate Player Salary and Bonuses (twenty (20) percent of the Upper Limit), but his SPC must state the Player Salary and Bonuses to be provided as a dollar amount, not as "20 percent of the Upper Limit."

 

[Sam]

You aren't reading it correctly.

Originally Posted by 10.1(a)(i)
For (A) the 2005-06 League Year, any Player who is 31 years of age or older and has four (4) Accrued Seasons as of June 30 of the end of the 2004-05 League Year, (B) the 2006-07 League Year, any Player who either has eight (8) Accrued Seasons or is 29 years of age or older as of June 30 of the end of the 2005-06 League Year, (C) the 2007-08 League Year, any Player who either has seven (7) Accrued Seasons or is 28 Years of age or older as of June 30 of the end of the 2006-07 League Year, and (D) the 2008-09, 2009-10, 2010-11 League Years, any Player who either has seven (7) Accrued Seasons or is 27 years of age or older as of June 30 of the end of the 2007-08, 2008-09, 2009-10 League Year, as the case may be, and in either case has four (4) Accrued Seasons or more on June 30 of the end of the applicable League Year, shall, if his most recent SPC has expired, with such expiry occurring either as of June 30 of the applicable League Year or June 30 of any prior League Year, become an Unrestricted Free Agent.

I read the "in either case" as referring to the 2007-08, 2008-09, or 2009-10 League Year referred to in (D), as they mention the four accrued seasons in (A) and (D) but not in (B) and (C). It would also explain why Toskala was set to be a UFA in the upcoming offseason (even though he would only have three years of accrued service) before he was extended this season. But I could be wrong.

 

[Captain Ron]

I read it as the "in either case" refers to the 2007-08, 2008-09, and 2009-10 League Year referred to in (D), as they mention the four accrued seasons in (A) and (D) but not in (B) and (C). It would also explain why Toskala was set to be a UFA before he was extended this season. But I could be wrong.

I think they just wrote it that way so they didn't have to write the "4 accrued season" part verbatim 6 times

It would not make sense for the 4 season accrued rule to be in affect for....

The 1st season
the 4th season
the 5th season and
the 6th season

but not in....

the 2nd season or
the 3rd season

 

[Sam]

I think they just wrote it that way so they didn't have to write the "4 accrued season" part verbatim 6 times

That's what I thought at first as well. But following the same line of thinking, why not mention it just once instead of twice (not that I would think it makes sense to have the four accrued seasons rule in effect for only four out of six seasons)?

 

[Captain Ron]

That's what I thought at first as well. But following the same line of thinking, why not mention it just once instead of twice (not that I would think it makes sense to have the four accrued seasons rule in effect for only four out of six seasons)?

Well since the NHL states this in the CBA.FAQ section I am still assuming the 4 accrued seasons is for all 6 years....

Unrestricted Free Agency - For the 2005-06 season, a player age 31 with four accrued seasons will be an unrestricted free agent; in 2006-07, a player age 29 with four accrued seasons or with eight accrued seasons; in 2007-08, a player age 28 with four accrued seasons or with seven accrued seasons; beginning in 2008-09 and for the duration of the agreement, a player age 27 with four accrued seasons or with seven accrued seasons will be an unrestricted free agent. For purposes of qualifying for unrestricted free agency, the 2004-05 cancelled season will be counted as a year of accrued service.

 

[Timmy]

from what i understand, this is not the complete document, but is indeed part of the final CBA.

it's quite a lot to look at.

take out the underscore]

Would you be at all offended if I called a secretary at the NHL to confirm or deny each clause?

 

[kdb209]

I read the "in either case" as referring to the 2007-08, 2008-09, or 2009-10 League Year referred to in (D), as they mention the four accrued seasons in (A) and (D) but not in (B) and (C). It would also explain why Toskala was set to be a UFA in the upcoming offseason (even though he would only have three years of accrued service) before he was extended this season. But I could be wrong.

That's how I parse it too, and I agree about the Toskala example - it has been pretty much confirmed that Vesa will only have 3 accrued seasons after this year but would have been by all reports a UFA if he hadn't signed th extension, and email from the Sharks beat writer mentioned that the 4 accrued season rule was not in effect. That is all consistent with my (and your) reading that the 4 accrued season criteria is only in effect this past year (A) and in the 2007-08, 2008-09, or 2009-10 League Years (D). Why? - I have no idea.

 

[DaveG]

Did this exist in the last CBA? An interesting bit if not.

Irbe was loaned to the Johnstown Chiefs in the 2003-04 season.

 

[jwhouk]

I still don't understand how they could start the season without much of the CBA finalized and in writing? I understand how the general concepts of the cap, arbitration, ufa ages, etc., could be understood, but how could they feasibly enforce certain minor clauses which weren't finalized or necessarily understood by the start of say, free agency or the season?

The words that come to mind are, "They did it last time."

Kudos to you, SSK.

 

[AdmiralPred]

I still don't understand how they could start the season without much of the CBA finalized and in writing? I understand how the general concepts of the cap, arbitration, ufa ages, etc., could be understood, but how could they feasibly enforce certain minor clauses which weren't finalized or necessarily understood by the start of say, free agency or the season?

Without going into detail, simply put, the two sides agreed to play while the fine tuning is being hammered out. Interpreting the minor clauses are bridges that sometimes don't get crossed until a situation arises that tests one of them. At which time interpretation of the clause may determine the ruling and the need to close any loopholes that may turn up.

 

[PecaFan]

Something else:
(i) A Club may exercise four Recalls from a club or clubs of any league affiliated with the NHL, of Player(s) listed on its own Reserve List.

We knew that a few weeks ago, at least here in Canucks land. GM was on the radio and was asked about making some moves, and he said he'd used up his four moves already.

Nice work to get this.

 

[19nazzy]

I must be a nerd, but I am enjoying reading this thing.

I'll call you a nerd if you understand it all....

 

[Felonious Python]

I must be a nerd, but I am enjoying reading this thing.

I concur.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

I'll call you a nerd if you understand it all....

I'm safe then - I'm skipping Article 49.









What? I majored in math? On purpose? And I'm an actuary? On purpose? So I'm still a nerd even if I skip Article 49?

 

[GSC2k2*]

Would you be at all offended if I called a secretary at the NHL to confirm or deny each clause?

A blast from the past!!!! I guess this is "greatest hits" week at HF.

 

[Oilers Ent]

this is awesome!!!

 

[The Fuhr*]

Thanks

 

[clay]

That is a lot of lawyer talk right there.

 

[sk84fun_dc]

Regarding the four accrued seasons, the wording is very convoluted in that clause, but I think the players do need the four accrued seasons along with the age requirement; as someone else noted, the NHL CBA faq's have stated this all season and I think they would have modified it if the information was not accurate; also, reading the draft CBA in the link, not clear to me where the (D) clause ends and the information pertaining to all four (A-D) starts (I think it starts with the clause about the four accrued seasons)

source: nhl.com "Unrestricted Free Agency - For the 2005-06 season, a player age 31 with four accrued seasons will be an unrestricted free agent; in 2006-07, a player age 29 with four accrued seasons or with eight accrued seasons; in 2007-08, a player age 28 with four accrued seasons or with seven accrued seasons; beginning in 2008-09 and for the duration of the agreement, a player age 27 with four accrued seasons or with seven accrued seasons will be an unrestricted free agent. For purposes of qualifying for unrestricted free agency, the 2004-05 cancelled season will be counted as a year of accrued service."

Regarding Toskala, does anybody know how long he was on the active roster in 2002-2003 and serving as a back-up? Seems very difficult to know whether he has 4 accrued seasons, IMO; he definitely has 3 so the issue is 02-03. Reading this, it relates to days on the active roster not games played. He played in 11 games that season so the question is, was he on the roster as the backup or a third goalie for another 19 games that season?

per the linked document, "Accrued Season" means any League Year during which a Player was on a Club's Active Roster for 40 (30 if the Player is a goalie) or more Regular Season Games, provided that, for the purposes of calculating an Accrued Season under this Agreement, games missed due to a hockey-related injury incurred while on a Club's Active Roster shall count as games played for purposes of calculating an Accrued Season but only during the League Year in which the injury was incurred and a maximum of one additional season."

Irish Blues - this is what I was told a few weeks ago about the European player draft pick rights and when they need to be signed by (source: Capitals Report podcast):

Drafted in or prior to June 2002: June 1, 2006; Drafted 2003: June 1, 2007; Drafted 2004: June 1, 2008; Drafted 2005: June 1, 2007 ; Drafted 2006: June 1, 2008 (I still think it is weird that teams have longer to sign guys drafted in 04 than 05, but has something to do with pre lockout for 04s)

College Players: August 15 year they graduate or August 15 of what would have been their graduating year

 

[kdb209]

Regarding the four accrued seasons, the wording is very convoluted in that clause, but I think the players do need the four accrued seasons along with the age requirement; as someone else noted, the NHL CBA faq's have stated this all season and I think they would have modified it if the information was not accurate; also, reading the draft CBA in the link, not clear to me where the (D) clause ends and the information pertaining to all four (A-D) starts (I think it starts with the clause about the four accrued seasons)

No, I think the clause reads pretty clearly:

For (A) the 2005-06 League Year, any Player who is 31 years of age or older and has four (4) Accrued Seasons as of June 30 of the end of the 2004-05 League Year, (B) the 2006-07 League Year, any Player who either has eight (8) Accrued Seasons or is 29 years of age or older as of June 30 of the end of the 2005-06 League Year, (C) the 2007-08 League Year, any Player who either has seven (7) Accrued Seasons or is 28 Years of age or older as of June 30 of the end of the 2006-07 League Year, and (D) the 2008-09, 2009-10, 2010-11 League Years, any Player who either has seven (7) Accrued Seasons or is 27 years of age or older as of June 30 of the end of the 2007-08, 2008-09, 2009-10 League Year, as the case may be, and in either case has four (4) Accrued Seasons or more on June 30 of the end of the applicable League Year, shall, if his most recent SPC has expired, with such expiry occurring either as of June 30 of the applicable League Year or June 30 of any prior League Year, become an Unrestricted Free Agent.

If that last either really was meant to apply to all 4 clauses, (A) thru (D), rather than be included in clause (D), then they would have said "in all cases", rather than "in either case", which implies two cases. Clause (D) by itself has two cases ("seven (7) Accrued Seasons" or "is 27 years of age or older ... "), so the use of either is correct in that context.

It would be interesting to see gscarpenter (or some other lawyer) pipe in with their opinon on parsing that clause from a legal/contracts POV.

source: nhl.com "Unrestricted Free Agency - For the 2005-06 season, a player age 31 with four accrued seasons will be an unrestricted free agent; in 2006-07, a player age 29 with four accrued seasons or with eight accrued seasons; in 2007-08, a player age 28 with four accrued seasons or with seven accrued seasons; beginning in 2008-09 and for the duration of the agreement, a player age 27 with four accrued seasons or with seven accrued seasons will be an unrestricted free agent. For purposes of qualifying for unrestricted free agency, the 2004-05 cancelled season will be counted as a year of accrued service."

I would give more credence to the text of the CBA than the interpretation that some unknown person put up on a FAQ.

Regarding Toskala, does anybody know how long he was on the active roster in 2002-2003 and serving as a back-up? Seems very difficult to know whether he has 4 accrued seasons, IMO; he definitely has 3 so the issue is 02-03. Reading this, it relates to days on the active roster not games played. He played in 11 games that season so the question is, was he on the roster as the backup or a third goalie for another 19 games that season?

This was discussed in detail on the Sharks Board, and no he was not on the roster for 30 games, even as a backup.

A listing of all Sharks Transactions ('97-'03):

http://www.hockeynut.com/0304/santrans19972003.html

Exerpts from the '02-'03 Season:

March 12 - Recalled goaltender Vesa Toskala from Cleveland of the American Hockey League.

October 24 - Assigned goaltender Vesa Toskala to Cleveland of the American Hockey League.

October 22 - Re-signed goaltender Evgeni Nabokov.

He was sent down on Oct 24 after Nabby was signed - that is a max of 6 games, including a game on the 24th.

He was recalled on March 12 - there were 14 games remaining in the season.

That gives a max of 20 possible games on the roster in '02-'03.

Playoff games don't count for Accrued Seasons, but that's a moot point since the Sharks sucked in '03 and missed the playoffs.