TSN 690 & Other Montreal sports media Thread V

[mitchmagic]

How does Molson or anyone else in the organization listen to that interview and say to themselves "yeah, we're fine with this guy."

 

[mtl_felix]

How does Molson or anyone else in the organization listen to that interview and say to themselves "yeah, we're fine with this guy."

Probably the same reason there are flat earthers and holocaust deniers. It's hard to comprehend really.

 

[groovejuice]

I understand your point...but Molson made the mistake of extending this GM without any real reason to do that - a good President wouldn't have done that imo and would have likely fired the GM by now.

But yes, if the President isn't doing a good job then it's no different I agree...but that's where hockey acumen comes in...if you put the right people in charge then success will come. We put a rookie in charge of the most difficult market in the league.

I see your point though...maybe we don't need a president, but having that layer of hockey knowledge is valuable imo..the KEY is to find the right guy. Right now it's hard to see the silver lining in anything MB does because he is running on the spot each and every year. A good hockey man would see this. Molson doesn't.

The idea with a PHO is to have a creative, collaborative relationship between 2 not necessarily identical thinkers. Having a PHO to deal with ownership and often negotiating and looking after contracts, frees up some responsibilities so the GM has more time to spend specifically on the on-ice product.

This paradigm also ensures a level of expert oversight, which is often missing in a GM only hierarchy.

 

[Runner77]

Because Molson isn't part of hockey Ops. And if we're not hair splitting, the majority of the GMs in the NHL answer directly to ownership.

And if people don't trust Molson, I'm not sure why they'd trust him to hire an intermediary between himself and the GM.

Molson is not part of hockey ops in terms of a title, but he is acting as a de facto hockey ops individual, in terms of Bergevin's reporting responsibilities and as the ownership group's designated rep. in terms of approving or disapproving hockey decisions. Bernard Brisset, who has worked within the Habs' organization, qualifies Geoff Molson as part of hockey ops.

As to your second point, it wouldn't be ideal but it would be better than what we have now. Who counsels Geoff Molson on Bergevin's decisions, especially now that he appears to have a shorter leash?

 

[Runner77]

I'd rather it not happen but it wouldn't surprise me to see Galchneyuk headed Buffalo's way in a package for ROR. The Habs need to add to their already pathetic pop gun offense and IMO trading a Galchenyuk with other assets for ROR wouldn't improve the offense very much.

If you're going to pay for a no. 2C, let's first find out how the UFA market shakes out.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Molson is not part of hockey ops in terms of a title, but he is acting as a de facto hockey ops individual, in terms of Bergevin's reporting responsibilities. Bernard Brisset, who has worked within the Habs' organization, qualifies Geoff Molson as part of hockey ops.

As to your second point, it wouldn't be ideal but it would be better than what we have now. Who counsels Geoff Molson on Bergevin's decisions, especially now that he appears to have a shorter leash?

My point is, if you don't trust Molson's decision making then you aren't going to trust him to hire a President.

The vast majority of the NHL has a system whereby GMs answer to ownership on hockey related matters. And it hasn't hurt teams in that situation.

And lets not pretend that their aren't people that like the way Bergevin thinks. There are many people around hockey that prefer Weber to Subban even with age and contracts. There are people that heavily value guys like Alzner and Shaw. And so on. Molson either thinks that way about hockey or listens to other people who think about hockey that way (because I doubt he exclusively listens to Bergevin on hockey matters). And in either case, him hiring a President isn't going to fix things.

 

[Captain Mountain]

I'd rather it not happen but it wouldn't surprise me to see Galchneyuk headed Buffalo's way in a package for ROR. The Habs need to add to their already pathetic pop gun offense and IMO trading a Galchenyuk with other assets for ROR wouldn't improve the offense very much.

If Galchenyuk isn't a center in Montreal, it absolutely would. ROR is really good at playing tough minutes and as a center he's better suited to make plays in scoring positions. No team in the NHL made fewer passes to the slot or behind the net in the O-zone than Montreal this year. Everyone was basically forced to do their own thing. If the Drouin at center experiment continues (which I think it will) ROR would take tough minutes from him. He'd be a great fit with someone like Gallagher/Pacioretty and Hudon/Lehkonen. Those guys would make a poor man's version of Boston's first line (aka the best line in the NHL) and let Drouin face easier competition. Drouin would need a finisher and puck carrier, but it can be a kind of do-over on how they wasted Galchenyuk. And ROR would help the defence as well.

Depending on what else is in the package, you do a Galchenyuk+ for ROR trade all day every day. Galchenyuk isn't going to want to stay when his contract is up in a couple of years. The age difference is only 3 years. And unlike the Subban vs. Weber trade, ROR is actually better than Galchenyuk.

Find a way to add a good PMD or two and with some luck you can make something.

A more concrete rebuild would be better, but at least in this case you're putting yourself in a good position if you uncover a real hidden gem in the draft.

 

[Runner77]

The idea with a PHO is to have a creative, collaborative relationship between 2 not necessarily identical thinkers. Having a PHO to deal with ownership and often negotiating and looking after contracts, frees up some responsibilities so the GM has more time to spend specifically on the on-ice product.

This paradigm also ensures a level of expert oversight, which is often missing in a GM only hierarchy.

The only issue with the appointment is the very close relationship between Bergevin and Geoff -- I remember a quip from a hockey pundit last year where he said how you'd have to be nuts to want to take a job sandwiched between those two. While it has worked in other organisations, we have a different dynamic here that is perpetuated by Geoff's abject incompetence in terms of his handling of the hockey ops side. Which is why we're not likely to see a lot of high level personnel changes next year. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Captain Mountain]

The idea with a PHO is to have a creative, collaborative relationship between 2 not necessarily identical thinkers. Having a PHO to deal with ownership and often negotiating and looking after contracts, frees up some responsibilities so the GM has more time to spend specifically on the on-ice product.

This paradigm also ensures a level of expert oversight, which is often missing in a GM only hierarchy.

The bolded is the reason Dudley is around. He's the other VP of hockey Ops. The senior hockey guy that's been around the league for years and doesn't necessarily think the way Bergevin does.

And there isn't a president of hockey Ops in the NHL that negotiates contracts or looks after them.

 

[L4br3cqu3]

I'm sorry if this was shared already.

And it's from TVA Spanre, so in french, so sorry again.

But, essentially, Renaud (an 'insider', he told us himself) getting destroyed after his reply to Mario Dumont (someone who shouldn't know a whole lot about hockey)

Débat enflammé à «La joute des séries»! - TVA Sports

 

[Runner77]

I'm sorry if this was shared already.

And it's from TVA Spanre, so in french, so sorry again.

But, essentially, Renaud (an 'insider', he told us himself) getting destroyed after his reply to Mario Dumont (someone who shouldn't know a whole lot about hockey)

Débat enflammé à «La joute des séries»! - TVA Sports

I don't think anyone posted the follow-up to the debate that had begun with Mario Dumont's comment.

Renaud Lavoie not only has zero class (he's unable to accept a different point of view than his) but is incredibly insecure for someone who has spent so much time before a camera. He clearly feels intimidated and belittled by Dumont who conducted himself as an absolute gentleman. If anything, this segment exposes Lavoie even more as a petty self-designated "expert" who is clearly very afraid of losing the job he's so damn lucky to be able to keep having.

Someone like Dumont who doesn't even work in the hockey world, was able to get to the crux of the issues and had his finger on the pulse of exactly what has been ailing the Habs and their fans. Dumont appeared honest and did not resort to childish grimaces like Lavoie did throughout the segment while others were taking turns offering their opinions. Lavoie is basically a pouting child if he's confronted with facts or arguments he doesn't like or which direct criticism towards the Habs.

Lavoie is a Habs shill through and through, he merely regurgitated what Geoff Molson has been saying, he's incapable of critical thought. Lavoie should try and find a job within the Habs' PR Dept, he's been sadly exposed, even if he was a well-established turnip before this segment. Credit to Bossy who could have destroyed Lavoie when the latter was trying to school everyone about how you can't win the Stanley Cup every year or on how hockey organisations are run. One of the users at the bottom of the link, noted as much.

Speaking of user comments, the ones contained in this link, provide hilarious takes. That's where the gold usually is. Gold, Jerry.

 

[L4br3cqu3]

I don't think anyone posted the follow-up to the debate that had begun with Mario Dumont's comment.

Renaud Lavoie not only has zero class (he's unable to accept a different point of view than his) but is incredibly insecure for someone who has spent so much time before a camera. He clearly feels intimidated and belittled by Dumont who conducted himself as an absolute gentleman. If anything, this segment exposes Lavoie even more as a petty self-designated "expert" who is clearly very afraid of losing the job he's so damn lucky to be able to keep having.

Someone like Dumont who doesn't even work in the hockey world, was able to get to the crux of the issues and had his finger on the pulse of exactly what has been ailing the Habs and their fans. Dumont appeared honest and did not resort to childish grimaces like Lavoie did throughout the segment while others were taking turns offering their opinions. Lavoie is basically a pouting child if he's confronted with facts or arguments he doesn't like or which direct criticism towards the Habs.

Lavoie is a Habs shill through and through, he merely regurgitated what Geoff Molson has been saying, he's incapable of critical thought. Lavoie should try and find a job within the Habs' PR Dept, he's been sadly exposed, even if he was a well-established turnip before this segment. Credit to Bossy who could have destroyed Lavoie when the latter was trying to school everyone about how you can't win the Stanley Cup every year or on how hockey organisations are run. One of the users at the bottom of the link, noted as much.

Speaking of user comments, the ones contained in this link, provide hilarious takes. That's where the gold usually is. Gold, Jerry.

His antics were cringeworthy, like you said, he really looked like a spoiled kid not having what he's used to, at some point I was wondering if he was going to throw a tantrum. And yeah, you saw that Bossy was holding shots, probably cause, well, they're co-workers.

But damn I loved watching him getting spanked like that, and the sound he made when Dumont was appointed as winner of the debate, and himself at the bottom...

Let's just say his arguments were mirroring those of MB, empty and lacking.

 

[groovejuice]

The bolded is the reason Dudley is around. He's the other VP of hockey Ops. The senior hockey guy that's been around the league for years and doesn't necessarily think the way Bergevin does.

And there isn't a president of hockey Ops in the NHL that negotiates contracts or looks after them.

PHO is a position that isn't necessarily the same from team to team. It's a relatively new position and the job responsibilities as well as the qualifications vary from franchise to franchise.

I was reading an article about it recently which talked about it at length and it was clearly stated some franchises do indeed leave the negotiation of contracts to the Pres. Hockey Ops.

I looked for the link but didn't find it, but will be happy to post it when I
do.

The Habs are in deep trouble indeed if Dudley's input is supposed to prevent Bergevin from making idiotic moves. It's pretty clear most of the management team stuck around for the opposite reason.

 

[Adam Michaels]

I don't think anyone posted the follow-up to the debate that had begun with Mario Dumont's comment.

Renaud Lavoie not only has zero class (he's unable to accept a different point of view than his) but is incredibly insecure for someone who has spent so much time before a camera. He clearly feels intimidated and belittled by Dumont who conducted himself as an absolute gentleman. If anything, this segment exposes Lavoie even more as a petty self-designated "expert" who is clearly very afraid of losing the job he's so damn lucky to be able to keep having.

Someone like Dumont who doesn't even work in the hockey world, was able to get to the crux of the issues and had his finger on the pulse of exactly what has been ailing the Habs and their fans. Dumont appeared honest and did not resort to childish grimaces like Lavoie did throughout the segment while others were taking turns offering their opinions. Lavoie is basically a pouting child if he's confronted with facts or arguments he doesn't like or which direct criticism towards the Habs.

Lavoie is a Habs shill through and through, he merely regurgitated what Geoff Molson has been saying, he's incapable of critical thought. Lavoie should try and find a job within the Habs' PR Dept, he's been sadly exposed, even if he was a well-established turnip before this segment. Credit to Bossy who could have destroyed Lavoie when the latter was trying to school everyone about how you can't win the Stanley Cup every year or on how hockey organisations are run. One of the users at the bottom of the link, noted as much.

Speaking of user comments, the ones contained in this link, provide hilarious takes. That's where the gold usually is. Gold, Jerry.

Don't let Lavoie catch you criticizing the Habs. My favorite morning sports show is Langevin and Ciccone. When they have Lavoie, he usually gets fired up when they talk about something the hosts think the Habs did wrong. They're smart enough to have Pierre Houde on right after Lavoie so we can quickly get back to sane debates/conversations.

 

[Cobra Commander]

Why did no one ask the real tough question, it was a very obvious one.

Mark, you talk a lot about a bad attitude surrounding this team, could it be that the players are mad that you didn't do everything possible to re-sign Radulov who obviously drove the offense last season? (Marinaro voice) I mean common Mark.. Everyone and their mother knew that Radulov was the key piece to our offense.. You couldn't give him an extra million if that's what it would have taken?? It was a better idea to give it to Hemski??

MB: That's second guessing Tony...
It's not Radulov it's our attitude..

 

[mariolemieux66]

I don't think anyone posted the follow-up to the debate that had begun with Mario Dumont's comment.

Renaud Lavoie not only has zero class (he's unable to accept a different point of view than his) but is incredibly insecure for someone who has spent so much time before a camera. He clearly feels intimidated and belittled by Dumont who conducted himself as an absolute gentleman. If anything, this segment exposes Lavoie even more as a petty self-designated "expert" who is clearly very afraid of losing the job he's so damn lucky to be able to keep having.

Someone like Dumont who doesn't even work in the hockey world, was able to get to the crux of the issues and had his finger on the pulse of exactly what has been ailing the Habs and their fans. Dumont appeared honest and did not resort to childish grimaces like Lavoie did throughout the segment while others were taking turns offering their opinions. Lavoie is basically a pouting child if he's confronted with facts or arguments he doesn't like or which direct criticism towards the Habs.

Lavoie is a Habs shill through and through, he merely regurgitated what Geoff Molson has been saying, he's incapable of critical thought. Lavoie should try and find a job within the Habs' PR Dept, he's been sadly exposed, even if he was a well-established turnip before this segment. Credit to Bossy who could have destroyed Lavoie when the latter was trying to school everyone about how you can't win the Stanley Cup every year or on how hockey organisations are run. One of the users at the bottom of the link, noted as much.

Speaking of user comments, the ones contained in this link, provide hilarious takes. That's where the gold usually is. Gold, Jerry.

TVA again had to close the comment section after only 13 comments all disagreeing with Lavoie.

 

[Cobra Commander]

TVA again had to close the comment section after only 13 comments all disagreeing with Lavoie.

Lavoie need to put on a lil more makeup, his cheeks aren't rouge enough...

 

[durojean]

If Galchenyuk isn't a center in Montreal, it absolutely would. ROR is really good at playing tough minutes and as a center he's better suited to make plays in scoring positions. No team in the NHL made fewer passes to the slot or behind the net in the O-zone than Montreal this year. Everyone was basically forced to do their own thing. If the Drouin at center experiment continues (which I think it will) ROR would take tough minutes from him. He'd be a great fit with someone like Gallagher/Pacioretty and Hudon/Lehkonen. Those guys would make a poor man's version of Boston's first line (aka the best line in the NHL) and let Drouin face easier competition. Drouin would need a finisher and puck carrier, but it can be a kind of do-over on how they wasted Galchenyuk. And ROR would help the defence as well.

Depending on what else is in the package, you do a Galchenyuk+ for ROR trade all day every day. Galchenyuk isn't going to want to stay when his contract is up in a couple of years. The age difference is only 3 years. And unlike the Subban vs. Weber trade, ROR is actually better than Galchenyuk.

Find a way to add a good PMD or two and with some luck you can make something.

A more concrete rebuild would be better, but at least in this case you're putting yourself in a good position if you uncover a real hidden gem in the draft.

I'd hate a Galchenyuk for O'Reilly. 28 vs 24 is a lot of years in hockey. And O'Reilly is not a better player than Galchenyuk even this year.

I'd see a Pacioretty for O'Reilly making more sense than a Galchenyuk for O'Reilly, but the Sabres would have to add a little in my view for the deal to make sense.

I do think that it does look like the kind of trade Bergevin would make and I actually think it would go down as the GM's second biggest mistake.

A 1/2 puch of Eichel / Galchenyuk would set Buffalo at center for 10 years and would give them a lot of power offensively.

 

[lo striver]

that's the PHO Geoff Mol$on is planning to get

 

[Runner77]

His antics were cringeworthy, like you said, he really looked like a spoiled kid not having what he's used to, at some point I was wondering if he was going to throw a tantrum. And yeah, you saw that Bossy was holding shots, probably cause, well, they're co-workers.

But damn I loved watching him getting spanked like that, and the sound he made when Dumont was appointed as winner of the debate, and himself at the bottom...

Let's just say his arguments were mirroring those of MB, empty and lacking.

Kudos to you for posting that. Loved the escalating tension reflected in Lavoie's dumb facial expressions.

Just goes to show you how low the bar is for some of these sports "personalities", seriously Renaud Lavoie is as dumb as a brick. That's why I enjoy cerebral contributors who are respectful and quick on their feet, like a Marc Denis. Time for the Renaud Lavoies of the sports business to be shown the door.

 

[Runner77]

that's the PHO Geoff Mol$on is planning to get

If Geoff is involved, it's probably spelled "FAUX".

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Damn, Lavoie came off looking like a bitch.

 

[Runner77]

Damn, Lavoie came off looking like a *****.

So owned, it's not even funny.

 

[dinodebino]

To Renaud's defence, Mario Dumont is an experienced debater.

 

[mariolemieux66]

To Renaud's defence, Mario Dumont is an experienced debater.

He shouldn't have replied to Dumont's article saying he should stick to politics.