Training Camp II - "And now for the easiest part of a coaches' job: the cuts"

[King85Kong]

I thought one of the reasons Clarkson was brought in was to improve team toughness while adding some offense to go along with it. Damn, he failed on both accounts. Guess we have to resort to having Orr. Can't catch a break.

 

[one77]

I thought one of the reasons Clarkson was brought in was to improve team toughness while adding some offense to go along with it. Damn, he failed on both accounts. Guess we have to resort to having Orr. Can't catch a break.

I actually would not mind him on the 4th line. Obviously he's overpaid but if we're stuck with him we might as well stop crying and play him on an energy gritty line. Especially if we plan on giving our 4th line 10+ minutes.

JVR - Bozak - Kessel
Lupul - Kadri - Leivo
Nylander - Holland - Komarov
Winnik - Santorelli - Clarkson
Kozun

 

[King85Kong]

I actually would not mind him on the 4th line. Obviously he's overpaid but if we're stuck with him we might as well stop crying and play him on an energy gritty line. Especially if we plan on giving our 4th line 10+ minutes.

JVR - Bozak - Kessel
Lupul - Kadri - Leivo
Nylander - Holland - Komarov
Winnik - Santorelli - Clarkson
Kozun

I agree. Third/fourth line is were he should be. Hopefully he improves on his play.

 

[Jacquestrapless]

I actually would not mind him on the 4th line. Obviously he's overpaid but if we're stuck with him we might as well stop crying and play him on an energy gritty line. Especially if we plan on giving our 4th line 10+ minutes.

JVR - Bozak - Kessel
Lupul - Kadri - Leivo
Nylander - Holland - Komarov
Winnik - Santorelli - Clarkson
Kozun

That forward core is worthy of a top-10 draft pick.

 

[janesy12]

Heck, Pat Quinn figured that out ages ago and its one of the reasons why Domi rounded out his game (though he never lost his inner goon). This team regressed back a good decade with Burke and Carlyle.

At least Domi could play and wasn't a liability. Orr/McLaren are no where close to what Domi was.

 

[HockeyNightInBelfast]

I actually would not mind him on the 4th line. Obviously he's overpaid but if we're stuck with him we might as well stop crying and play him on an energy gritty line. Especially if we plan on giving our 4th line 10+ minutes.

JVR - Bozak - Kessel
Lupul - Kadri - Leivo
Nylander - Holland - Komarov
Winnik - Santorelli - Clarkson
Kozun

Nylander isn't gonna make the team to play on the 3rd line.

 

[MJ65]

I don't see Frattin on these lineups any more - a lot of our posters were listing as a 2nd line winger

 

[SprDaVE]

Nylander to me is all but cut. No shame in it... I just don't think he's been good enough to outset any of the top 9 players. Showed a lot great glimpses and promise but not enough.

 

[MJ65]

Nylander isn't gonna make the team to play on the 3rd line.

I don't think so

 

[WestCoastLeafs]

Nylander isn't gonna make the team to play on the 3rd line.

Leafs have already said they want a top nine team with 3 scoring lines - I expect him or Leivo to start the season on the third line, even though they would typically be seen as "top sixers". It would also be better for Nylander to begin in a protected role.

 

[janesy12]

Nylander to me is all but cut. No shame in it... I just don't think he's been good enough to outset any of the top 9 players. Showed a lot great glimpses and promise but not enough.

He isn't ready based on size and maturity. There's nothing wrong with him playing in the minors or the more likely scenario of being courted by several SHL teams in Sweden. He'll have a much better shot next year. After all, he's just a kid. No point to rush him and break his confidence on a team that could have a rough, and very long season.

 

[MJ65]

I don't think if the leafs are done yet - at some point (trade deadline) they need some help at defense and also at goal (sorry Reimer fans) and I hope Lupul can prodeuce this year so that we can fetch a best return, mind you he is very productive when healthy but he is not getting younger (hopefully next year Nylander is ready to take his spot

We (my guess) are not going to see these players after trade deadline

- Franson
- Lupul
- Reimer

 

[080]

I agree. Third/fourth line is were he should be. Hopefully he improves on his play.

He shouldn't play with Kadri on the second line. I'm sure there's numbers somewhere to back-up the assertion that Clarkson severely hinders Kadri's production.

 

[Mess]

Nylander isn't gonna make the team to play on the 3rd line.

He might if the Leafs want to give him a 9 game trial to start the season.

We know Clarkson is coming back into the line-up and it all depends is he will supplant Kozun on the 4th line or take Nylander's spot on the 3rd line or bump Leivo out.

Tonight's game will be the final chance for the 3 youngsters to determine their fate.

 

[zeke]

That forward core is worthy of a top-10 draft pick.

Should be one of the higher scoring forwrd groups in the league, actually.

 

[MJ65]

Should be one of the higher scoring forwrd groups in the league, actually.

I don't think if scoring is a concern - it's the defensive support people are talking about

 

[zeke]

That bottom six looks like a big defensive upgrade over last year to me.

 

[Mess]

That bottom six looks like a big defensive upgrade over last year to me.

Only problem is that its the top 6 forwards that get scored against the most and give up the most ES goals against. Last years bottom 6 combined gave up a relatively low % of the teams even strength goals against.

The PK is perhaps where the new players and bottom 6 players will have the biggest impact if Komarov, Winnik and Santorelli can better the performance of Kulemin, McClement etc.

Last years PK gave up 85 goals against with the 28th ranked PK% if this years team could cut 10 goals against less they would move up ~ 10-12 spots and be middle of the pack and near NHL average while killing penalties.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Only problem is that its the top 6 forwards that get scored against the most and give up the most ES goals against. Last years bottom 6 combined gave up a relatively low % of the teams even strength goals against.

The PK is perhaps where the new players and bottom 6 players will have the biggest impact if Komarov, Winnik and Santorelli can better the performance of Kulemin, McClement etc.

Last years PK gave up 85 goals against with the 28th ranked PK% if this years team could cut 10 goals against less they would move up ~ 10-12 spots and be middle of the pack and near NHL average while killing penalties.

that could be countered with the fact that it was the bottom 6 forwards who barely scored at all. Therefore, the top six had to sacrifice being more defensive minded to concentrate on getting the goals, hence resulting on being scored against.

i think with the balance that we have, the top six should a bit more defensively sound

 

[Mess]

that could be countered with the fact that it was the bottom 6 forwards who barely scored at all. Therefore, the top six had to sacrifice being more defensive minded to concentrate on getting the goals, hence resulting on being scored against.

i think with the balance that we have, the top six should a bit more defensively sound

If the team wants to improve Daisy then that certainly is the hope, however playing defense takes effort and commitment also from the top 6 forwards to backcheck and support the defense also. They can't rely on players sitting on the bench while they're on the ice to play defense for them.

Leafs top line gets scored against as much as any line at ES in the NHL.. Leafs 2nd line were all double digit negative in +/- getting scored against far more then they produced themselves. Leafs top 6 forwards dig their own hole and then spend the rest of the game trying to outscore their own mistakes to bring the Leafs back.

Defense and goals against is this team greatest weakness finishing among the bottom 5 regularly in goals surrendered.

 

[ULF_55]

Only problem is that its the top 6 forwards that get scored against the most and give up the most ES goals against. Last years bottom 6 combined gave up a relatively low % of the teams even strength goals against.

The PK is perhaps where the new players and bottom 6 players will have the biggest impact if Komarov, Winnik and Santorelli can better the performance of Kulemin, McClement etc.

Last years PK gave up 85 goals against with the 28th ranked PK% if this years team could cut 10 goals against less they would move up ~ 10-12 spots and be middle of the pack and near NHL average while killing penalties.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...3+5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67#

If those top offensive players were near the bottom of the team for O-Zone starts there might be some defense for those poor stats, but when they're getting the best O-Zone starts it is on them.

Looks like the bottom 6 improved the starting position the most.

Name|Off Zone Start %|Off Zone Finish %
NAZEM KADRI|49.3|49.3
PETER HOLLAND|47.7|52.6
JAMES VAN RIEMSDYK|47|47.7
COLTON ORR|45.9|40.9
PHIL KESSEL|44.8|47.4
MASON RAYMOND|44.1|49.5
TROY BODIE|44|52.5
JOFFREY LUPUL|41.8|49.6
TYLER BOZAK|41|46
DAVID CLARKSON|36.4|44.5
NIKOLAI KULEMIN|34.9|46.2
JAY MCCLEMENT|28.6|41.7

 

[jmart21]

Loving the way our lineup seems to be shaping up.....

JVR - Bozak - Kessel
Lupul - Kadri - Leivo
Komarov - Holland - Clarkson
Winnik - Santorelli - Kozun
Orr/MacLaren

Phaneuf - Robidas
Gardiner - Polak
Rielly - Franson

 

[SprDaVE]

Loving the way our lineup seems to be shaping up.....

JVR - Bozak - Kessel
Lupul - Kadri - Leivo
Komarov - Holland - Clarkson
Winnik - Santorelli - Kozun
Orr/MacLaren

Phaneuf - Robidas
Gardiner - Polak
Rielly - Franson

Replace McLaren with Frattin, Holzer as the 7th D and you got yourself a lineup.

Frattin has struggled but McLaren is barely an AHL player. Get rid of him ASAP.

Re-evaluate in a months time when Booth is off the IR.

 

[zeke]

i just want to reiterate how happy i am about the way our bottom six is starting to look, and what a massive improvement it would be over last year's bottom six.

it looks so good that i might not even freak out if they cut nylander.

we could have a bottom six where every single guy is capable of being a 30pt guy (well, except maybe komarov), and half of them have 40pt potential.

and that's with most all of them being defensively responsible as well. and it even has a good amount of beef with clarkson, winnik, holland, komarov down there too. good speed for the most part as well.

what looks like our fourth line right now is better than our third line last year.

this is a bottom six that will legitimately be able to spend as much time in the offensive zone as it does in the defensive zone.

our bottom six last year was an utter disaster of two-way uselessness, and an upgrade to even average, and maybe even above average, would be a huge improvement for the team as a whole.


if randy sticks with this, there will be nights this year where our fourth line will literally be our best line, and not just "good for a fourth line". if he sticks with it, this bottom six could be good enough to carry the team in short stretches when the top six might be firing blanks.

i'm scratching my head tying to figure out the last time i was as happy aboit our bottom six. i still have nightmares about us starting a season by building a third line "checking line" of Sjostrom - Brent - Primeau. i.e. a mediocre ahl line. (while sticking kadri in the minors, no less).


please, please stick with this, randy.

 

[zeke]

Only problem is that its the top 6 forwards that get scored against the most and give up the most ES goals against. Last years bottom 6 combined gave up a relatively low % of the teams even strength goals against.

The PK is perhaps where the new players and bottom 6 players will have the biggest impact if Komarov, Winnik and Santorelli can better the performance of Kulemin, McClement etc.

Last years PK gave up 85 goals against with the 28th ranked PK% if this years team could cut 10 goals against less they would move up ~ 10-12 spots and be middle of the pack and near NHL average while killing penalties.

the top six were forced way out of their comfort zone last year due to the utter uselessness of our bottom six i think. the opposing coach didn't have to worry about our bottom six so could design his entire gameplan just around matching up with our scoring lines. a beter bottom six should keep the opposition more honest.

that being said, i'm not holding out hope of any vast defensive improvement from this team as long as randy is here. but a bottom six being able to earn their fair share of possession should help.

and if we're going to suck defensively again, let's at least be great offensively to make up for it, last year's bottom six was so abysmal offensively and defensively it was embarassing.

not sure what to think of the pk. lsst year they sucked, the year before they were great, and with mostly the same personnel. i think robidas should help, and hopefully rielly gets a chance at more pk duty, as i think he'll thrive there. winnik-komarov should be a great pk pair too, so there's hope for improvement here. that being said, who knows?