Proposal: Trading Tyler Myers

[GNP]

Lots of time to hunt and fish in the off season. Careers are short and few players don't try to stretch them for as long as they can.

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Well said by the very "astute" poster- King Bogo --and I totally agree !!! He has lot's of time to hunt and fish in the offseason, but a very small window of time to make the big bucs $$$ .

I think we'll see Buff playing well in the NHL for another 4-5 years !!! -- he has the body type to do it, and loves the rough going. He's playing at a very high level right now, and skates great for a 250 lb man. I don't think he will decline that fast at all, if he keeps up his physical conditioning. I feel confident in getting more good years out of Buff, if we keep him.

 

[surixon]

I've been all for this. With that said Buff is putting together his best defensive season in the NHL this year.

Other than his exploits in OT, I've very pleased with the big man this season.

Yup he's been excellent. You don't trade impact players like Buff when you are trying to win a cup unless they want out which isn't the case here. He makes a lot but he has been worth every penny this season.

Buff is only signed for another three seasons after this one anyhow so it doesn't look like we are going to be stuck with a bad contract here.

I like Myers but he doesn't hold a candle to Buff in terms of ability and effectiveness. We live in a cap world and there will be casualties. Imo we can't afford a 5 million cap hit third pair dmen past this season with all the other raises we will have to dish out this summer.

 

[KingBogo]

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Well said by the very "astute" poster- King Bogo --and I totally agree !!! He has lot's of time to hunt and fish in the offseason, but a very small window of time to make the big bucs $$$ .

I think we'll see Buff playing well in the NHL for another 4-5 years !!! -- he has the body type to do it, and loves the rough going. He's playing at a very high level right now, and skates great for a 250 lb man. I don't think he will decline that fast at all, if he keeps up his physical conditioning. I feel confident in getting more good years out of Buff, if we keep him.

At this point I'm very comfortable with Buff's contract length. 3 more years is just about right. If he is able to age as well as you believe then he can ride out his career on short term deals matching what he brings to the lineup.

 

[KingBogo]

Yup he's been excellent. You don't trade impact players like Buff when you are trying to win a cup unless they want out which isn't the case here. He makes a lot but he has been worth every penny this season.

Buff is only signed for another three seasons after this one anyhow so it doesn't look like we are going to be stuck with a bad contract here.

I like Myers but he doesn't hold a candle to Buff in terms of ability and effectiveness. We live in a cap world and there will be casualties. Imo we can't afford a 5 million cap hit third pair dmen past this season with all the other raises we will have to dish out this summer.

But if Myers is willing to sign for a lower cap hit he just might be a good fit. With us in contention mode I think decisions on supporting vets will be made season by season. As long as we lock up the young core Chevy will then need to wiggle around the edges every summer to squeeze us under the cap.

 

[truck]

I'm all for a Myers trade.

He's been a good #5, but he's struggled some when asked to do moreI don't think we'd see a massive step back giving Poolman his minutes.

I also like the timing because:
His counting stats are large due to a PP boost - despite relatively slow per minute production at 5 on 5.
I'd like to see someone like Trouba or Morrissey take on those PP minutes.

I suspect he could garner a very nice piece from a team that needs D.

 

[surixon]

But if Myers is willing to sign for a lower cap hit he just might be a good fit. With us in contention mode I think decisions on supporting vets will be made season by season. As long as we lock up the young core Chevy will then need to wiggle around the edges every summer to squeeze us under the cap.

He would likely have to sign for half his current hit for it to be workable. I personally don't see him doing it, his counting stats are still good enough to secure another +5 million a year deal on the open market.

I also believe his impact will decline moving forward as I believe the plan as alluded to by Moe is to have Morrissey assume a larger role on the PP moving forward. That means less of an opportunity for Myers to contribute.

You also have to factor in his past injury history. This is his first healthy year since his second year in the league. When you combine that with him having his best offensive year since his rookie season you have a situation where his value has likely spiked. Scoring right D fetch a premium on the market and imo we should capitalize on it.

I get not wanting to move players out when you are trying to win, but I would reserve that notion only for your impact players and imo Myers while an ok one dimensional number 4 is not a true impact player that needs to be retained. I would rather not follow Chicago and paint myself into a corner when it comes to being forced to move out players. I would like to stay ahead of the situation and move players on my terms.

We also need to keep in mind that the org is going to need to continually replenish the pipeline with good prospects in order to sustain this window when our true impact players are making a lot of money (Something Chicago didn't do all that well by the end). One good way of doing it is moving out expendable high value assets like Myers for good future packages.

I also think that Poolman can effectively eat his third pair minutes for a fraction of the cost.

 

[GNP]

He would likely have to sign for half his current hit for it to be workable. I personally don't see him doing it, his counting stats are still good enough to secure another +5 million a year deal on the open market.

I also believe his impact will decline moving forward as I believe the plan as alluded to by Moe is to have Morrissey assume a larger role on the PP moving forward. That means less of an opportunity for Myers to contribute.

You also have to factor in his past injury history. This is his first healthy year since his second year in the league. When you combine that with him having his best offensive year since his rookie season you have a situation where his value has likely spiked. Scoring right D fetch a premium on the market and imo we should capitalize on it.

I get not wanting to move players out when you are trying to win, but I would reserve that notion only for your impact players and imo Myers while an ok one dimensional number 4 is not a true impact player that needs to be retained. I would rather not follow Chicago and paint myself into a corner when it comes to being forced to move out players. I would like to stay ahead of the situation and move players on my terms.

We also need to keep in mind that the org is going to need to continually replenish the pipeline with good prospects in order to sustain this window when our true impact players are making a lot of money (Something Chicago didn't do all that well by the end). One good way of doing it is moving out expendable high value assets like Myers for good future packages.

I also think that Poolman can effectively eat his third pair minutes for a fraction of the cost.

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Good post here Surixon--and a lot of good points you make here !!! not only do you have to consider players talent levels, but you also have to consider how they fit into the financial structure of the team.

So a lot of times - your trading a financial situation away, moreso than the player, in order to comply with the cap. You do have to consider "both" though.

It will be interesting to see what Chevy does here ?? but I have faith he will make a competent decision, like he's always done in the past.

I do think one of these 3 guys will be traded though--which one ?? I don't know ???

 

[KingBogo]

He would likely have to sign for half his current hit for it to be workable. I personally don't see him doing it, his counting stats are still good enough to secure another +5 million a year deal on the open market.

I also believe his impact will decline moving forward as I believe the plan as alluded to by Moe is to have Morrissey assume a larger role on the PP moving forward. That means less of an opportunity for Myers to contribute.

You also have to factor in his past injury history. This is his first healthy year since his second year in the league. When you combine that with him having his best offensive year since his rookie season you have a situation where his value has likely spiked. Scoring right D fetch a premium on the market and imo we should capitalize on it.

I get not wanting to move players out when you are trying to win, but I would reserve that notion only for your impact players and imo Myers while an ok one dimensional number 4 is not a true impact player that needs to be retained. I would rather not follow Chicago and paint myself into a corner when it comes to being forced to move out players. I would like to stay ahead of the situation and move players on my terms.

We also need to keep in mind that the org is going to need to continually replenish the pipeline with good prospects in order to sustain this window when our true impact players are making a lot of money (Something Chicago didn't do all that well by the end). One good way of doing it is moving out expendable high value assets like Myers for good future packages.

I also think that Poolman can effectively eat his third pair minutes for a fraction of the cost.

You make a very solid argument, but I still think we hold onto him next season and ride him to UFA status and make a pitch at a cap hit that we can squeeze in and if he takes something better we wish him well and move on. We lose out on a potential return but get a real good bottom pair guy who can move up the lineup for another cup chance next season. We still avoid painting ourselves into a salary corner.

 

[Duke749]

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I'd resign him for about $ 1 mil per season, and use him as a fill in when the regulars get hurt, and with D-men that's quite often. Would not include a NMC or NTC -- and would look to make a trade deal if a good one came up -- but be just as happy to keep him, as when he's healthy --he's really quite good.

He just can't take the pounding anymore, nor can he go the distance. I don't think it's rrealistic for Chevy to go much more than $ 1 mil-- but Toby could probably get around $ 2.5 to 3 mil, on the open market. I guess he'll pursue this avenue.

So not only do you want to severely low ball him, you want to play worse players above him?

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

I think Myers is expendable regardless of Trouba.

There's a few too many variables to say with certainty Myers is expendable.

If Trouba goes too the Jets have to recoup a top 4 D in that deal and/or add a top 4 D elsewhere. They have trade chips and some flexibility given the depth up front.

If Trouba plays hardball again, Myers is hardly expendable. Of course they'll be a return, but in what form? A prospect? A forward? A lateral deal for a RD of Trouba's age, skill level & cap space is next to a impossibility.

I don't think the Jets can pay a player of his (Myers) ability what he will command on the open market (because there are still lots of people around who view Myers through a lens of potential), with or without Trouba. I would deal him for what I could get this off-season and slot in Poolman for 3rd pairing or sign a cheaper veteran option. The other option is letting Myers play out his deal and letting him walk, which I'm also fine with, just wastes cap/money on a 3rd pairing D that could be taken by a ELC or $1-$2 mil a year type guy.

Myers at only 28 years of age has made $41 million in salary since 2009 & has been one of the leagues highest paid defensemen. Thankfully it wasn't the Jets paying him $10 million for his 2012-2013 season. In return he's been injured with the Jets for portions of all 3 seasons, missing 2 games his first year, 9 games in his second & 71 games last season. The Jets knowingly bought damaged goods with Chevy well aware surgery was needed.

Yes Myers could get more on the open market, but I think he gets his extension the moment Trouba is either resigned or traded & should that occur Myers is still extended as a result of Byfuglien being moved.

In either case I believe he resigns & gives the Jets a true home team discount for all the reasons discussed elsewhere in this thread.

Trouba and Myers situation have nothing to do with each other.

Every Jets contract has something to do with the next. Every player is competing for their slice of cap space.

To suggest two defensemen, let alone two right shooting defensemen's situations have nothing to do with one another runs false in my mind, particularly with their potential extensions a year apart from one another.

If after reading a few pages of conversations on the matter, you still think otherwise I'm not sure what else can be said other than "we'll know soon enough".

 

[csk]

I'm' surprised the poll is this split. I would have thought trading a UFA(2019) that can't be resigned when you have a replacement ready would be a no-brainer.

 

[truck]

You make a very solid argument, but I still think we hold onto him next season and ride him to UFA status and make a pitch at a cap hit that we can squeeze in and if he takes something better we wish him well and move on. We lose out on a potential return but get a real good bottom pair guy who can move up the lineup for another cup chance next season. We still avoid painting ourselves into a salary corner.

His counting stats from this season could garner a very good prospect and a pick.

I'll take that all day over a bottom pairing D man - especially with Poolman waiting on the wings.

The Jets won't be able to afford a 10 million dollar third pair long term.

 

[GNP]

So not only do you want to severely low ball him, you want to play worse players above him?

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Well Duke- you may look at it that way -- but in my mind Toby's body just can't take the beating anymore -"he's to small". Because of that, in my mind, his value diminishes considerably -- and you may disagree with this-- but that's my opinion.

He may even retire the next season--he's close to the end of the line--out half the season over the last 2 years --so what's the guy worth ??

 

[truck]

I'm' surprised the poll is this split. I would have thought trading a UFA(2019) that can't be resigned when you have a replacement ready would be a no-brainer.

Same.

Meh player.
Inflated value.
Nearing UFA.
Can't afford to keep - especially with Kuli on the roster.
Replacement is ready.

 

[Tommigun]

I'm' surprised the poll is this split. I would have thought trading a UFA(2019) that can't be resigned when you have a replacement ready would be a no-brainer.

What surprises me more is that people seem willing to move Buff instead, who’s a true leader on this team playing absolutely fantastic hockey at not that much higher cap. I have a very hard time believing Buff will be moved.

Why would management pick Myers and try to resign him at an impossibly low contract, instead of keeping Buff whose contract length is perfect?

 

[Duke749]

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Well Duke- you may look at it that way -- but in my mind Toby's body just can't take the beating anymore -"he's to small". Because of that, in my mind, his value diminishes considerably -- and you may disagree with this-- but that's my opinion.

He may even retire the next season--he's close to the end of the line--out half the season over the last 2 years --so what's the guy worth ??

One million is still a major low ball offer when the guy is essentially out #4.

Also it’s unfair to blame him for missing all that time last year from that extremely dirty hit and the leave he took. But sure, hold THAT against him too. Some sound logic there.

 

[surixon]

I would love to have Toby back at 2.5 to 2.75 million for one season. He still moves the puck really well and has very good suppression numbers. I wonder if he does intend to come back, given his injury situation the last few seasons it might be really taking its toll on him given where he is in his career.

 

[KingBogo]

His counting stats from this season could garner a very good prospect and a pick.

I'll take that all day over a bottom pairing D man - especially with Poolman waiting on the wings.

The Jets won't be able to afford a 10 million dollar third pair long term.

Just saying what I think happens. He plays out another season at his $5.5 M cap hit and is part of another playoff team and the Jets then offer him as a UFA what they can fit into the cap. If this doesn't get it done they wish him well. Not saying it is good or bad just what I think happens. Maybe over loyal, which is a fair criticism, but I also think it works the other way with players taking team friendly deals because of how they have been treated by the organization.

 

[bumblebeeman]

But if Myers is willing to sign for a lower cap hit he just might be a good fit. With us in contention mode I think decisions on supporting vets will be made season by season. As long as we lock up the young core Chevy will then need to wiggle around the edges every summer to squeeze us under the cap.

This is what I think too. The priority goes to re-signing Trouba, Helle, Morissey, then Laine and Connor long term (or if they bridge somebody, having a plan to get the cap space needed to sign them long term in the future). If there is still room for him then Myers is a good guy to keep around. I think there will be room for him still next year, but the following year he will definitely have to take a pay cut to stick around.

Or if the Jets want to move him in the offseason and use that cap space somewhere else would be fine (but not for somebody longterm unless Chevy has figured out the numbers), but as said I really hope they re-sign Enstrom in that case or someone like that or the Jets defensive depth would be a weakness (again).

 

[GNP]

One million is still a major low ball offer when the guy is essentially out #4.

Also it’s unfair to blame him for missing all that time last year from that extremely dirty hit and the leave he took. But sure, hold THAT against him too. Some sound logic there.

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If I was GM- I'd see more value in Chiarot right now than Toby. He's not as good a skater and puch handler- but he's tough, durable, and has a great shot that Toby does not have, and he's young.

So--I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this subject Duke !!! I see trouble with Enstrom, and cost we don't have to swallow.

 

[csk]

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If I was GM- I'd see more value in Chiarot right now than Toby. He's not as good a skater and puch handler- but he's tough, durable, and has a great shot that Toby does not have, and he's young.

So--I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this subject Duke !!! I see trouble with Enstrom, and cost we don't have to swallow.

He's almost 27. It's not like players get much better at that age.

 

[surixon]

He's almost 27. It's not like players get much better at that age.

I'm surprised their aren't more people hesitant of Chariots play. He has had some nice hot stretches before but then will then cool off and his effectiveness goes back down to a replacement level player.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

He's almost 27. It's not like players get much better at that age.

I'm surprised their aren't more people hesitant of Chariots play. He has had some nice hot stretches before but then will then cool off and his effectiveness goes back down to a replacement level player.

Jets have divested themselves of every prospect to ever come thru Atlanta since the team moved here. The only players still with the organization contractually that were prospects when the team arrived are 2010 picks Melchiori (3R) & Chiarot (4R).

Just based off of this alone I could see Morrow given Chiarot's roster spot next season.

Melchiori becomes a UFA this off season & may only be offered an AHL contract next season, if not released outright. Ben Chiarot is the only prospect to have been provided the slightest opportunity to play for this team & even that was as 7th defensemen.

It's amazing this team has gotten to where it is in such a short window of time considering the lack of talent we inherited.

In terms of total Atlanta draft picks the only others are Bryan Little & Toby Enstrom that remain with the organization. As early as 2019 the only drafted Thrasher left could be Little.

 

[10Ducky10]

Love Myers all you guys want and hate Little...Myers never gives up the puck or makes rookie mistakes...

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

Tough to trade Enstrom with his contract expiring once the playoffs are over.

For us to trade him we'd have to resign him. How do you feel about that?

You are right - slipped my mind that this was the year we got out of the contract that looked good early, but was very expensive the last three years. Sign him cheap or lose him (I don't know what that is, maybe +/-$1.25m) taking into account that he only will play about 1/2 the games, and that he isn't suited to playoff hockey.

So trade isnt the right word. Maybe better to say lose fragile Toby, keep Myers.