Trading Places LEAFS HABS

[pspot]

You're overestimating the value of vets in the cap world. Players on long term expensive contracts will never return fair value in trades.

Look at Luongo if you want an example of what Price could fetch in a trade. Not that much. Same goes for Subban and Patch.

Younger cheaper players are worth far more in asset value.

what? luongo? Price is the best goalie in the NHL, literally just won the Hart, Lindsay and Vezina lol

PK was nominated for the Norris two years after winning it

 

[Anthrax442]

I like Price and PK, the rest of that team stinks.

 

[Paris in Flames]

Montreal is a bad team with a couple of amazing world class pieces. They're not going to win the Cup with that team. Toronto has a bad team building towards something better in the future.

As of right now, the Leafs have a better future situation but if Montreal did sell off pieces they'd be back in front again...easily. However I don't expect them to sell off said pieces so in 5+ years I think I'd be happier with what the Leafs have.

 

[Fogelhund]

You're overestimating the value of vets in the cap world. Players on long term expensive contracts will never return fair value in trades.

Look at Luongo if you want an example of what Price could fetch in a trade. Not that much. Same goes for Subban and Patch.

Younger cheaper players are worth far more in asset value.

Price and Subban in particular have huge value, and would fetch a nice ransom in a trade. These two pieces are far superior to what the Leafs have, and Gallagher and Chuck are good pieces as well. After that, things start to get thin.

I think I'd take the Leafs though, as a) I'm a homer, and b) I think the Montreal window to compete is pretty short, and I don't think they have the pieces to get it done, short of some Free Agent signings that come very good for them. c) I think both the Management and the Prospect quality depth is far superior in Toronto.

Montreal is a better team currently, and for the next few years, but by the time this management is done with the rebuild, I think Toronto will end up ahead in a few years.

 

[indigobuffalo]

Price > Leafs > Habs right now.

In maybe 2-3 years I think it will be Leafs > Price > Habs.

And 2-3 years after that it would be Leafs >> Habs > Price.

 

[zeke]

the Habs have a poor roster.


Price is legit, but come playoffs it's the hot goalie that matters, not the best.

and Subban is a legit #1, but he never deserved the Norris and he's not that kind of super elite player....as we see without Price behind him.

after that it gets real ugly. not much in the way of top line talent, and poor depth to boot.

I'd take our forwards over theirs straight up, and maybe our D too depending on how I feel about Rielly vs. Subban at the moment.

 

[pspot]

what would Edm pay for Price?
RNH, 1st, +

what would Minny, Anh, Philly, pay for PK?
- Brodin, 1st, +
- Theodore, Ritchie, +
- Provorov, Konecny, +

 

[MastuhNinks]

I'm not going to talk smack about the Habs roster, they could very easily come out of the East this year. Yeah they have some holes but no roster is perfect, Montreal has some very, very good players.

That said I'm too optimistic about the management team set-up right now and the direction the Leafs are headed to trade. The Habs are a team that can contend for a couple of years which is tempting, but the Leafs are trying to be a well-oiled drafting and developing machine with a clear system a la Detroit Red Wings. A lot of work to get to that point but I'm willing to wait.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Hard to say honestly. Price is Price, but if he can't carry them to a cup by himself, its hard to see how they'll make the significant improvements necessary to win. Price won't let them draft high enough, so they're going to have to rely on either capturing lightning in a bottle, or extremely shrewd management to improve via trade and free agency, which is sketchy business at best. They have greater assets, but no obvious path forward.

 

[highslot]

easy to say. the leafs. we have babcock and an overall system in place.

while they have subban and price and gallagher, we aren't in too bad shape with rielly and jvr. coming up we have a better prospect potential than they do in nylander and rielly alone.

dermott, timashov and percy are nhlers.

beyond that, sparks, gauthier, nielson, loov, valiev, sparks, johnson and brown are strong candidates, and bracco, dzierkals, bibeau are boom bust.

 

[yubbers]

Did we ever figure out what the 18-wheeler in French is?

Phaneuf de Dion

 

[Daisy Jane]

Did we ever figure out what the 18-wheeler in French is?

dix-huit roues effondrement

 

[666]

The Habs and Leafs are miles apart. The Habs bottomed out a few years ago while the Leafs will possibly bottom out in a few more years.

The problem is that because of Price, the Habs bounced off of the bottom too quickly and didn't suck long enough. They obviously don't have the required depth to contend without Price but with him they could get lucky for a short window.

The Leafs have a 10 year plan to contend.

 

[Tak7]

What a silly question.

Montreal are closer to the cup, but we don't know where they expect to be in 5 years.

The Leafs are nowhere near the cup, and we have a sense of what their plan is for the next 5 years.

Their fans will pick their system, and our fans will pick our system.

The big kicker for me? Bergevin is smarter than any exec from either of the 2 teams.

 

[hizzoner]

that guy Pacioretty no good?

 

[MastuhNinks]

What a silly question.

Montreal are closer to the cup, but we don't know where they expect to be in 5 years.

The Leafs are nowhere near the cup, and we have a sense of what their plan is for the next 5 years.

Their fans will pick their system, and our fans will pick our system.

The big kicker for me? Bergevin is smarter than any exec from either of the 2 teams.

Bergevin is a very good GM who had success in a secondary role on the Blackhawks, but his resume pales in comparison to Lou Lamoriello's.

 

[PuckMagi]

I think the Leafs will finish ahead of the Habs at the end of the season.

 

[mcleex]

Outside of Price and Subban that roster is yuck

Pacioretty is not bad, but the rest of that team is not good at all

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

easy to say. the leafs. we have babcock and an overall system in place.

while they have subban and price and gallagher, we aren't in too bad shape with rielly and jvr. coming up we have a better prospect potential than they do in nylander and rielly alone.

dermott, timashov and percy are nhlers.

beyond that, sparks, gauthier, nielson, loov, valiev, sparks, johnson and brown are strong candidates, and bracco, dzierkals, bibeau are boom bust.

Actually, everyone you listed after JVR is still a prospect, and has not proven a thing. Effectively making them each "boom or bust".

 

[BlueBaron]

Wait since when did subban become a number 1D?

Probably around the time he got his Norris in 2013 ?

PK is one of my favorite personalities in hockey despite his team (it really bugs me he is a Hab) and there is no denying he is in a rare category offensively, only Karlsson is really better in that regard in my opinion.

Would I rather have Doughty ? Yep, every day.

Still even the biggest homer has to admit PK and Price are elite players with Price probably being the best goalie (some say player) in the world now.

Yes I agree our farm/prospects are better, I believe them to be top 5 in the league now, but the sum total value of their assets vs our own has to favour them.

A great goalie makes everyone look good and it will probably be some time before we close the gap on competitiveness with them. We do however have many things to be happy about and they to be concerned about. I almost like our current D better than theirs because after the Subban-Rielly match up our next guy is probably better than theirs. I'd rather have Dion than Markov etc. How much longer will Markov even be able to play ?

Every time things go badly for the Habs we have to be happy (unless it is suffering on the part of human beings, I hope none of us are that petty) but we must also always remember God is a Habs fan and when they do badly we then have to worry they will win the lottery. We can never relax with those guys

 

[Daisy Jane]

The Canadiens are closer to a Stanley Cup. That's a cautionary tale to temper Leafs fans expectations and ADD inclinations in this: Montreal is substantially further down it's developmental goals than Toronto is and yet in real danger of falling far short of it's own reasonable expectations even with the lead.

I wanted to quote this for a specific reason

While I agree with what you are saying: having a really good team doesn't = winning a cup, or anything like that. like. 1 team can win (and even though it seems like LA/Chicago are selfish and won't share LOL) - there are no guarantees. (that's where the "luck" factor comes in.

The bigger question here is
is Montreal a really good team.

like - the hilarious thing about this is - Leaf Fans have been telling Montreal fans for a while now (some more respectable/polite others), that they are in trouble and it goes beyond Therrian, and it goes beyond "the perfect scoring trade". they. can't. score. it's really easy to shut down their offense, and then you have to rely HEAVILY on price. even if Price is normal - you can win because he's a really, really good goalie (franchise, elite, whatever label you stick on it). when they score in bunches, it's generally due to having huge unsustainable numbers (going by shooting percentages, and all that stuff I really don't pay attention to more than passing - but this is totally the case).

and as zeke and others pointed out come playoff time - Price can be made human. AND he has a reoccurring lower body injury which can happen at any time.

They are to me, St Louis. just with better goal tending and they don't have to face Chicago. heck but I don't think they have the pieces really to make any kind of noise of significance.

to answer the question - I wouldn't trade places with the Habs. heck - and I mean this whole heartedly - I wouldn't trade with Chicago. (and I love their team, and I love their coach). but they aren't the Leafs. I'd love to get their success - (3 cups, 6 years, and counting), and the ability to find talent from anywhere, and people choose you because you're good. - but i believe we'll get there anywhere. so why trade with Montreal?

I'd rather see it happening from the grass roots so to speak and enjoy it happening in front of my eyes, and enjoy it.

Phaneuf de Dion

 

[Daisy Jane]

The big kicker for me? Bergevin is smarter than any exec from either of the 2 teams.

did you forget we had Lou Lamoriello? i don't think - everything being equal (especially now for Lou that he doesn't have to make moves based on getting people to sit in the seats in NJ, and has MLSE dollars behind him) I'd ever once think that Bergevin is smarter than Lou Lamoriello.

 

[Finnish your Czech]

Dub post

 

[Tak7]

the Habs have a poor roster.


Price is legit, but come playoffs it's the hot goalie that matters, not the best.

and Subban is a legit #1, but he never deserved the Norris and he's not that kind of super elite player....as we see without Price behind him.

after that it gets real ugly. not much in the way of top line talent, and poor depth to boot.
.

The second they started handing out the Norris to Karlsson, was the same second it stopped becoming relevant in discussions of who / what is a true #1 in this league.

I'd take Subban over Karlsson any day of the week, and I suspect most markets in the NHL would do the same.

 

[Apotheosis]

Not going to defend the Habs by any means (it's kind of funny watching them slide like this) but their success if fully on Price. Yes, they play better with him in net, but their lack of success is mostly because they just don't have a good top 6 nor good forward depth at all. They've gotten good numbers from their goalies since Price has been out, they just can't score at all. It's kind of like when Bernier was riding a 920+ SV pct for most of his first season here but we were still really bad.