Trade Rumours and Free Agent Talk

[BertCorbeau]

Freddy the Goat can be a mainstay in our bottom six, he will be homegrown, controlled until he's 27, and affordable.

Imagine if we trade Goat, Mad Brills will be saying who cares he's a 4th line C anyway, then when we sign a forth line C he will be complaining about overpayment and not having enough homegrown players on the team.

See: Matt Martin ... A signing he isn't a fan of.

 

[Menzinger]

Exactly. This board needs to come to grips with the fact that at best hes a 4th liner. Players don't add an offensive side over time. You either have it at this point or you don't.

Yeah - he's got stone hands and that isn't going to change with time.

A 4th or 3rd round pick at least has the chance of becoming a valuable piece. I'd take those over Freddy.

 

[Marlander93]

Exactly. This board needs to come to grips with the fact that at best hes a 4th liner. Players don't add an offensive side over time. You either have it at this point or you don't.

Even though that is likely true for Freddy... complete ignorant statement.

 

[LV*]

See: Matt Martin ... A signing he isn't a fan of.

Trust me Bert, I have. Pretty sure he didn't follow through on his threat to support a different team.

I dont want Kris Russel but I would love to see if he jumps ship to Chicago/Pittsburgh

 

[SeaOfBlue]

You have to give Freddy a fair chance in the AHL. He played decent in his brief stint with the Leafs. Offense comes with confidence for these types of players.

And opportunity, which Gauthier didn't get often. A lot of the opportunities he got were ones he created himself.

At best Dave Steckel He's Dave Steckel right now, so does he not get any better than he is right now? Doubt it.

 

[Celly Hard]

never understood the gauthier hate.

 

[taurine330]

never understood the gauthier hate.

Hate stems from the fact that he was a 1st round pick.

 

[meefer]

From a March 19th Sportsnet article.

"Babcock believes the 20-year-old is about a year away from challenging for a regular roster spot with the Leafs, but is open to the player changing his mind about that timeline if he performs well.

“Every time I looked at him today he was six-foot-five, so I liked that,†said Babcock. “The question’s always going to be pace: Can he get up and down the rink? Every coach that coaches him plays him all the time, so that must mean he’s good defensively and he’s got a good hockey IQ.â€

From the same,

"Gauthier will be the 11th player to make his NHL debut with the Leafs this season, and the ninth to do so in the last three weeks alone. The big centre was the organization’s first-round pick in 2013 and has put in a lot of hours with skating coach Barb Underhill to improve his speed.

“Working with her helped me a lot,†said Gauthier. “I think it helped my skating. It’s paid off so far.â€


I'm guessing a few here have forgotten the word 'patience'. He's stepped into the AHL and succeeded. He's had a taste of the NHL and didn't embarrass himself. He's looking at year 2 of AHL time and increased responsibilities. He's improving his skating. Babcock appears to like the potential. Hmmm, absolute bust.

Maybe we could let him develop another year and evaluate at that time, to see if the improvement curve continues, because we know every player shows his full potential by age 21

 

[ErnieLeafs]

From a March 19th Sportsnet article.

"Babcock believes the 20-year-old is about a year away from challenging for a regular roster spot with the Leafs, but is open to the player changing his mind about that timeline if he performs well.

“Every time I looked at him today he was six-foot-five, so I liked that,†said Babcock. “The question’s always going to be pace: Can he get up and down the rink? Every coach that coaches him plays him all the time, so that must mean he’s good defensively and he’s got a good hockey IQ.â€

From the same,

"Gauthier will be the 11th player to make his NHL debut with the Leafs this season, and the ninth to do so in the last three weeks alone. The big centre was the organization’s first-round pick in 2013 and has put in a lot of hours with skating coach Barb Underhill to improve his speed.

“Working with her helped me a lot,†said Gauthier. “I think it helped my skating. It’s paid off so far.â€


I'm guessing a few here have forgotten the word 'patience'. He's stepped into the AHL and succeeded. He's had a taste of the NHL and didn't embarrass himself. He's looking at year 2 of AHL time and increased responsibilities. He's improving his skating. Babcock appears to like the potential. Hmmm, absolute bust.

Maybe we could let him develop another year and evaluate at that time, to see if the improvement curve continues, because we know every player shows his full potential by age 21

Patience is only afforded to their little darlings. Critique them, and they go ballistic about patience.

Freddy has come a long way, and developed nicely. He can be a staple in the bottom 6, and play his role well.

 

[jaric1862]

I think the leafs will invite a bunch of defenseman in on PTO's. They are gonna make a lot of comptetion for those 7-8 spots.(yes i think we are rolling 8 defense this year). They might even sign one to a contract and push a guy like corrado out, or force them to trade Hunwick. Hopefully there are still some half-decent guys by that time on the market, like quincey would be awesome if we could nab him on a PTO.

 

[Leafsman]

Patience is only afforded to their little darlings. Critique them, and they go ballistic about patience.

Freddy has come a long way, and developed nicely. He can be a staple in the bottom 6, and play his role well.

He's waiver eligible until 18/19, there is still two years to allow him to develop. I think another full year in the AHL, then 17/18 you start bringing him up to replace injuries in the bottom 6. Maybe even a short stint or two this year if he performs.

I think the new NHL, requires you to develop solid bottom six players. The bottom six is a pivotal role on a serious team. It's no longer partially for bruisers and players in the doghouse. With Grundstrom and Gauthier in 2-3 years we could have a elite level bottom six.

 

[Nithoniniel]

I'll have to echo what meefer said. Goat had his first pro year, and found a role in the AHL and had a decent showing at the NHL level being tossed in to play difficult minutes. He's still young, he's still developing. Skating was a worry, but he showed while up in the big league that it already wasn't an issue.

People mention Steckel, but that was always a bad comparable. Only thing in common is size. Steckel was a faceoff specialist who was pretty lousy at everything else. Decent at the PK. Gauthier matches him already as a PK player, but his faceoffs isn't where it should be. He does have shot suppression qualities that Steckel was never close to, is smart and can actually pass the puck.

Now offense, people mention. I'll agree that offense rarely grows. I'll also agree that it comes with opportunity, which Gauthier hasn't really been offered. Nevertheless, I don't think we should expect him to be able to generate more than 4th line offense on his own.

There's one thing about offense that I think gets overlooked though. It's generated by skill, natural ability and creativity for sure, but not in a vacuum. Offensively gifted players still need to use their linemates to get the most out of it, and that's where I think Gauthier can thrive. Like a Winnik, he's good along the boards and has solid passing, and just like Winnik he doesn't have hands or shot to do much with it himself. But if we continue with that example (which I think is the best comparison in terms of potential), Winnik showed that when not playing on a shutdown role and with some skill on his line, he was able to produce at close to a second line level. He doesn't generate much on his own, but he was a great resource for teammates.

Usage can determine potential as well as natural ability and talent sometimes. Gauthier will most likely be a very good 4th liner, but he could be more if used in a complementary role as well.

 

[RLF]

With the Rangers only having about $9mil in cap space and still needing to re-sign Kreider, Hayes, Miller and McIlrath, rumour has it they are looking to shed some salary. Nash will be a hard move as would Staal.imo

A deal revolving around Hunwick/Klein could make a lot of sense for both teams. NYR saves $1.7 this year and $2.9 next year while still getting a serviceable vet (granted they let him go in the past). Leafs get an upgrade on D that could play with Rielly. We would have to add a bit, but I don't think too much given NYR situation.

Rielly Klein
Gardiner Zaitsev
Marincin Polak

 

[WTFMAN99]

No secret, I hated the Gauthier pick, he could probably competently play 4C for us in 17-18. I don't know if he brings any new element to the table outside of being large though. He has to get a lot stronger as well, surprisingly easy to knock off the puck unless he's along the boards.

 

[MJ65]

No secret, I hated the Gauthier pick, he could probably competently play 4C for us in 17-18. I don't know if he brings any new element to the table outside of being large though. He has to get a lot stronger as well, surprisingly easy to knock off the puck unless he's along the boards.

I totally agree with you - we literally wasted that pick and I still regret it

Irony is he is a 1st rounder (I know it's not his fault)

 

[Mad Brills*]

I don't hate gauthier, I hate that nonis wasted a 1st on him, when they could've taken theodore there instead.

Always go for upside in round 1, not a safe pick.

Those can be for your later picks.

 

[TheCLAM]

No secret, I hated the Gauthier pick, he could probably competently play 4C for us in 17-18. I don't know if he brings any new element to the table outside of being large though. He has to get a lot stronger as well, surprisingly easy to knock off the puck unless he's along the boards.

At the time, I understand there was higher skilled players on the board.

The fact of the matter is that he's been inherited to our system. We bleed a lot of skill and lack players with his size/skill-set. I disagree with "he bring any new element to the table outside of being large".

This is likely due to a personal bias towards creative skill. He's the only 6'5 center we have in the system with good skating and defensive ability. Not every player has to be a franchise changing center, you need good role players as well.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I totally agree with you - we literally wasted that pick and I still regret it

Irony is he is a 1st rounder (I know it's not his fault)

At the time, I understand there was higher skilled players on the board.

The fact of the matter is that he's been inherited to our system. We bleed a lot of skill and lack players with his size/skill-set. I disagree with "he bring any new element to the table outside of being large".

This is likely due to a personal bias towards creative skill. He's the only 6'5 center we have in the system with good skating and defensive ability. Not every player has to be a franchise changing center, you need good role players as well.

I might have a bit more love if Gauthier had a mean bone in his body, at 6'5 he could terrorize other team's players but doesn't, if he brought physicality outside of being sound defensively (which is imo a minimum requirement for a 4C) then I'd say that would be a welcome element. Right now the best we can say for him is he's a big guy and "good" defensively.

Here is an out of the box way of thinking...I think we all agree that stay at home defenseman are extinct...or the definition of a shut down defenseman has changed. You don't think of a guy like Douglas Murray, Roman Polak, or Luke Schenn anymore. You think of guys like Hjalmarsson or Brodin, guys who are quick and have good puck skills as well, but may not necessarily put up points.

Has the shut down centre role changed? Is it less Brooks Laich, Paul Gaustad, or Freddy Gauthier and more Marcus Kruger - guy who can skate, make some plays, good defensively, doesn't necessarily light it up offensively but isn't that big hulking C? Or a Sean Couts (still a big guy, but he's more skilled then hulking brute, more low end 2C or high end 3C then 4C)

I hate the pick, but he's a Leaf so of course I want him to succeed.

 

[Mad Brills*]

Matthews is 1 1/2 inches shorter

 

[Jack Bauer]

And opportunity, which Gauthier didn't get often. A lot of the opportunities he got were ones he created himself.

At best Dave Steckel He's Dave Steckel right now, so does he not get any better than he is right now? Doubt it.

Steckel played 400 NHL games....no, he's not Steckel right now.

 

[Mad Brills*]

Steckel played 400 NHL games....no, he's not Steckel right now.

He isn't a total bust like biggs, but it's just a bit disheartening for his production since his d+1 year

 

[TheCLAM]

I might have a bit more love if Gauthier had a mean bone in his body, at 6'5 he could terrorize other team's players but doesn't, if he brought physicality outside of being sound defensively (which is imo a minimum requirement for a 4C) then I'd say that would be a welcome element. Right now the best we can say for him is he's a big guy and "good" defensively.

Here is an out of the box way of thinking...I think we all agree that stay at home defenseman are extinct...or the definition of a shut down defenseman has changed. You don't think of a guy like Douglas Murray, Roman Polak, or Luke Schenn anymore. You think of guys like Hjalmarsson or Brodin, guys who are quick and have good puck skills as well, but may not necessarily put up points.

Has the shut down centre role changed? Is it less Brooks Laich, Paul Gaustad, or Freddy Gauthier and more Marcus Kruger - guy who can skate, make some plays, good defensively, doesn't necessarily light it up offensively but isn't that big hulking C? Or a Sean Couts (still a big guy, but he's more skilled then hulking brute)

I hate the pick, but he's a Leaf so of course I want him to succeed.

There's definitely more emphasis on skating also style of play usually comes into play with defensive defenseman because they play a physical brand. I think it's important to view every player individually as no two players are the same.

I think you made some valid points, but I disagree with needing a mean style of play to be a good 3rd/4th line player. Brooks Laich/Gaustad have regressed with age, and physical style of play. The NHL brand is shifted towards a younger, faster style of player that leads to a shortened career of veteran players.

In terms of skating, Gauthier has a good stride for a big man. I wouldn't classify him as a fast or slow, but he's above average given his size. I disagree with the stereo-type of Gaustad/Laich as you're generalizing an old body with a young body. Is Gauthier going to be effective at 30? That's another question really.

I don't know if he'll be a surefire player, no one does. I just think you need to let him play out his first contract and see his development curve before judge anyone.

Couts is a very good #2/#3C over a role player. I wouldn't mentioned him in the conversation

 

[Jack Bauer]

I'm guessing a few here have forgotten the word 'patience'. He's stepped into the AHL and succeeded. He's had a taste of the NHL and didn't embarrass himself. He's looking at year 2 of AHL time and increased responsibilities. He's improving his skating. Babcock appears to like the potential. Hmmm, absolute bust.

Maybe we could let him develop another year and evaluate at that time, to see if the improvement curve continues, because we know every player shows his full potential by age 21

People are allowed to have opinions based on where they see a player ending up.

All the patience in the world isn't going to change certain realities for Gauthier.

Laugh if you will but the fact is that most people who have watched him since junior projected him as a guy who will fall through the cracks as a career pro but not a full time NHL player due to his lack of an offensive game.

You can let someone develop forever but at some point you're going to lose some of those battles and some just won't develop into NHL talent. Gauthier will play pro hockey for 10 years if he wants to, but I for one have a hard time seeing him in the NHL for very long because the style of game is passing by someone like him because he lacks the offensive game necessary to play a regular shift at the NHL level and development isn't going to change that.

We have mid round picks from 2016's draft who are about to pass him on the depth chart because they simply have more talent then he does.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Steckel played 400 NHL games....no, he's not Steckel right now.

Fine, right now he's Dave Steckel minus 393 NHL games. It doesn't change my justification.

 

[TheCLAM]

People are allowed to have opinions based on where they see a player ending up.

All the patience in the world isn't going to change certain realities for Gauthier.

Laugh if you will but the fact is that most people who have watched him since junior projected him as a guy who will fall through the cracks as a career pro but not a full time NHL player due to his lack of an offensive game.

You can let someone develop forever but at some point you're going to lose some of those battles and some just won't develop into NHL talent. Gauthier will play pro hockey for 10 years if he wants to, but I for one have a hard time seeing him in the NHL for very long because the style of game is passing by someone like him because he lacks the offensive game necessary to play a regular shift at the NHL level and development isn't going to change that.

We have mid round picks from 2016's draft who are about to pass him on the depth chart because they simply have more talent then he does.

This could very well be the case.

I would caution you to let any player ride out their ELC before passing judgement.

Just a tip.