Speculation: Trade Rumors & Roster Building Thread: Part XXV "Gorton the new magician?"

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

This is actually something that has bothered me, I've heard multiple analysts say the Rangers are trying to copy the Penguins because anytime a team wins the rest of the league tries to copy cat.

I'm just sitting there like "Did I dream the 2014 run to the cup?" The Rangers were raved about that off season for the speed we played with and relentlessly pushing the pace, but I guess since we lost in the Final, it didn't count?

Yeah, IIRC, Pierre asked AV something about whether the Rangers were trying to emulate the Pens strategy of emphasizing speed during his in-game interview on the bench, and AV's response was kind of a polite version of "what the **** are you talking about, you creepy gnome? We were the ones who innovated with speed two years ago."

 

[DanielBrassard]

I remember when silverfish land was all about hyper emphasis on controlled zone starts and immeasurable quality of competition

A lot of battles back then for sure. Silver has come a long way haha.

 

[silverfish]

I've been on that train probably since last season. Silverfishland sounds like an interesting place though ha.

"Interesting" is not the word I'd use but I'm taking it as a compliment! No take-backs!

I remember when silverfish land was all about hyper emphasis on controlled zone starts and immeasurable quality of competition

To my credit, at least we had some good conversations about it and I at least dove in and tried to prove or disprove my hypotheses

I still believe qual comp measures aren't there yet. Zone starts I've come around on, but mostly because you realize that long-term, majority of shifts are started on-the-fly.

 

[wafflepadsave]

Look what Eric Staal brought back last year... As a rental.

Nash is a better player than Staal at this juncture of their careers, he'd also have an extra year left. Assuming that he gets moved to a team in "win now" mode, I'd venture to guess that he'd return a 1st and a pretty decent prospect.

Vermette, Ladd, Weise,etc. have all netted pretty decent returns (as rental players.) You can't tell me with a straight face that Nash wouldn't bring back more than those guys did.

Do the Rangers ever get 1st round picks for anybody?

 

[Riche16]

Did we trade for trouba yet?????????

 

[TurgePurge*]

Yeah, IIRC, Pierre asked AV something about whether the Rangers were trying to emulate the Pens strategy of emphasizing speed during his in-game interview on the bench, and AV's response was kind of a polite version of "what the **** are you talking about, you creepy gnome? We were the ones who innovated with speed two years ago."

(A time, it should be noted, when Sullivan was an asst. coach on the Rangers.)

Sullivan was with torts

 

[Lion Hound]

Do the Rangers ever get 1st round picks for anybody?

Sather certainly didn't!

 

[Ghost of jas]

Yeah, IIRC, Pierre asked AV something about whether the Rangers were trying to emulate the Pens strategy of emphasizing speed during his in-game interview on the bench, and AV's response was kind of a polite version of "what the **** are you talking about, you creepy gnome? We were the ones who innovated with speed two years ago."

(A time, it should be noted, when Sullivan was an asst. coach on the Rangers.)

I'm fairly certain he left when Tortorella was let go.

 

[Hire Sather]

Do the Rangers ever get 1st round picks for anybody?

No we just steal the player they pick when he doesn't wish to sign there.

 

[Ola]

I think we certainly have changed our approach as to the composition of our 4th line, right? In line with what Pittsburgh had. I think we cared waaaaay to little about speed and more importantly ability to play with the puck last season, and went after "clutch" guys like Stoll, Staal and the likes instead.

I raised a lot of questions on this during last season. Going after guys like Stoll and Staal just wasn't good moves, and it showed that we just had too much faith in a potential impact from being heavy down low and around the boards. Stahlberg was OK, but also a big body who doesn't exactly dance around with the puck. I think Gorton has adjusted his approach quite a lot this season, which is great to see.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Whoops, you're right - my bad.

AV's reaction was still priceless, though.

 

[JohnC]

Do the Rangers ever get 1st round picks for anybody?

I'm pretty sure the last time the Rangers traded for a 1st was when they traded Leetch

 

[Anthony5967]

Don't get how rumor break has so many followers. Really? Rangers have an offer for Trouba? The Jets came and approached the NYR with an offer? can't see that

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

I'm pretty sure the last time the Rangers traded for a 1st was when they traded Leetch

Didn't they trade up during the draft to select Staal?

 

[wafflepadsave]

No we just steal the player they pick when he doesn't wish to sign there.

Just don't see Nash bringing back a 1st ever. If he's on pace to score 40 again, we keep him.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Didn't they trade up during the draft to select Staal?

Yeah but they sent their own 1st back to Atlanta.

 

[JohnC]

Didn't they trade up during the draft to select Staal?

Good call. They traded their 1st (16) and 2nd (41) for the Thrashers' 1st (12). Different kind of acquiring a 1st though

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Just don't see Nash bringing back a 1st ever. If he's on pace to score 40 again, we keep him.

Dan Winnik (who had an extra year on his contract when traded) returned a 2nd and Connor Carrick who is an NHL player on the Leafs D this season when he was traded last year.

Nash would bring back a 1st and then some.

 

[Ola]

I think Lindberg may be the odd man out with this squad. I wonder what kind of trade value he has?

I'd previously seen him as the 4C replacing Dom Moore, but Jooris has been good and we have Nieves waiting in the wings.

Both in Skellefteå and HFD, Lindberg needed a year to settle down. He was pretty awesome for about the first half of last season, then injuries held him back a long probably with some fatigue. We had zero depth etc.

It would sting a bit to loose him. Like what I see from Jooris too. Pirri is getting it done.

In the end, I still would demote Jooris. Lindberg is still young, a bit of a late bloomer. I don't want to loose him. Too much potential. We also got to dump a D.

 

[Levitate]

It's funny how a narrative persists despite being factually incorrect.

http://stats.nhlnumbers.com/teams

Rangers currently are 8th youngest team in the NHL.

And that number is inflated with a few old guys in Girardi, Nash, Hank and Klein. Those are the only players on the roster in their 30s.

When they had MSL and Boyle it really skewed their average age. That really got the "the Rangers are an old team!" stuff going.

There was a story early on last season about how AV is the one of the most influential coaches in the Eastern Conference, if not the league. The Lightning and Penguins absolutely built off what he did with the Rangers.

Yeah it's weird, but I think it's mainly that since the Rangers didn't win the cup then everyone forgot about how they played and then Pittsburgh wins it with a similar style while at the same time the Rangers got a bit slower that year. I've seen fans giving Sullivan and Pittsburgh credit for "changing the way you win in the NHL...with speed!" which is just insane.

I think we certainly have changed our approach as to the composition of our 4th line, right? In line with what Pittsburgh had.

No, not really. The 2014 team rolled a fourth line that was excellent at playing tough minutes and producing offense. The Rangers rolled 3 scoring lines and a solid 4th line that could generate offensive pressure. They got away from that somewhat with letting Boyle go and signing Glass, but Moore was a pretty good replacement to prop up that line for a year until he also kinda went downhill last season. So Gorton revamped the roster in order to get it back closer to what it was 2 years ago.

I think we cared waaaaay to little about speed and more importantly ability to play with the puck last season, and went after "clutch" guys like Stoll, Staal and the likes instead.

Possibly but I think they also underestimated the effect of losing Hagelin and the sloppy play with and without the puck last year made it harder to attack with speed as well. One of the real easy way to use speed is to first force a turnover, then counter attack. Do it in the neutral zone or force an uncontrolled zone entry and then get a quick exit, etc. The Rangers were pretty bad through the neutral zone and allowing entry to their zone last season and couldn't move the puck back up the ice very fast. Speed doesn't get you much if the other team has time to sit back and wait for you. So far this year they've been better at forcing turnovers and using that.

 

[Lion Hound]

Even with the pressing need to add a defenseman, I like the position Gorton is currently sitting in.

Landing Vesey, and Ottawa trade really changed the clubs position.

Team is off to a 4-2 start. With each passing game, they are creating ridiculous scoring chances. How many posts, and hot goaltenders have they met so far? In addition the players have been somewhat interchangeable. They just won with their hottest forward out of the lineup. They pretty much outplayed every team they faced so far. They could have gone 6-0. If the club was losing, and getting outplayed there would be heat on Gorton to make a move.

Club has tradeable assets mixed with a couple of non-tradeable assets. Club even gained a draft pick this year.

Gorton is sitting in a position of power. Maybe its better they haven't swung a move already? Dec 1 is the drop dead date for Trouba I believe. Tick tock!

 

[I Eat Crow]

Even with the pressing need to add a defenseman, I like the position Gorton is currently sitting in.

Landing Vesey, and Ottawa trade really changed the clubs position.

Team is off to a 4-2 start. With each passing game, they are creating ridiculous scoring chances. How many posts, and hot goaltenders have they met so far? In addition the players have been somewhat interchangeable. They just won with their hottest forward out of the lineup. They pretty much outplayed every team they faced so far. They could have gone 6-0. If the club was losing, and getting outplayed there would be heat on Gorton to make a move.

Club has tradeable assets mixed with a couple of non-tradeable assets. Club even gained a draft pick this year.

Gorton is sitting in a position of power. Maybe its better they haven't swung a move already? Dec 1 is the drop dead date for Trouba I believe. Tick tock!

Pretty much what I posted earlier, but you articulated it much better for me.

Unfortunately for Trouba, I think that Chevy really is enough of a hard ass to let Trouba sit out the entire season. Winnipeg has his rights for 3 more seasons. Though, no one has blinked in the staring contest between him and Trouba and Overhardt.

There is just no way that Carolina is going to give up Hanafin, Toronto give up Reilly, Edmonton give up Klefbom, Phoenix Chychrun or Ekman-Larsson, Boston Torey Krug, etc. etc.

Boston, Colorado, Detroit, NYR, and Arizona are the teams in on Trouba. Winnipeg wants a straight across move for an equivalent LHD.

Boston isn't trading Krug.

Colorado isn't trading Barrie or Johnson (both of whom are RHD's). Would Winnipeg accept Zadorov and another piece?

Who does Detroit have? Brendan Smith? Please. Ouellette and Sproul aren't enough.

Arizona has already said publicly that Chychrun is a non-starter. Ekman-Larsson is like McDonagh to us. Untouchable unless a huge plus is coming back from Winnipeg along with Trouba.

That leaves the Rangers, who won't get Trouba for Skjei and a significant add such as Miller or Hayes, plus McIlrath maybe as a sweetener. That's not what Winnipeg wants. Cam Fowler makes a lot of sense for Winnipeg. Is a top 4 LHD, but is a UFA in 2018. The Rangers will need to send a little extra to Winnipeg...

Rangers trade JT Miller to Anaheim for Cam Fowler. Rangers get Fowler for 80 cents on the dollar because of their dire cap situation. Rangers flip Fowler, Oscar Lindberg, and Dylan McIlrath for Trouba. Done. Send both GM's the paperwork to sign.

The Rangers keep Skjei and add Trouba to the mix.

 

[Kovalev27]

It must be super annoying when Pierre asks AV if he's kind of copying pittsburgh's style of playing Fast when it's pitt that copied our model the two previous seasons. Tampa went out and got 3 of our players just to copy it even more.

We need a Cup really do to get that respect.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Pretty much what I posted earlier, but you articulated it much better for me.

Unfortunately for Trouba, I think that Chevy really is enough of a hard ass to let Trouba sit out the entire season. Winnipeg has his rights for 3 more seasons. Though, no one has blinked in the staring contest between him and Trouba and Overhardt.

There is just no way that Carolina is going to give up Hanafin, Toronto give up Reilly, Edmonton give up Klefbom, Phoenix Chychrun or Ekman-Larsson, Boston Torey Krug, etc. etc.

Boston, Colorado, Detroit, NYR, and Arizona are the teams in on Trouba. Winnipeg wants a straight across move for an equivalent LHD.

Boston isn't trading Krug.

Colorado isn't trading Barrie or Johnson (both of whom are RHD's). Would Winnipeg accept Zadorov and another piece?

Who does Detroit have? Brendan Smith? Please. Ouellette and Sproul aren't enough.

Arizona has already said publicly that Chychrun is a non-starter. Ekman-Larsson is like McDonagh to us. Untouchable unless a huge plus is coming back from Winnipeg along with Trouba.

That leaves the Rangers, who won't get Trouba for Skjei and a significant add such as Miller or Hayes, plus McIlrath maybe as a sweetener. That's not what Winnipeg wants. Cam Fowler makes a lot of sense for Winnipeg. Is a top 4 LHD, but is a UFA in 2018. The Rangers will need to send a little extra to Winnipeg...

Rangers trade JT Miller to Anaheim for Cam Fowler. Rangers get Fowler for 80 cents on the dollar because of their dire cap situation. Rangers flip Fowler, Oscar Lindberg, and Dylan McIlrath for Trouba. Done. Send both GM's the paperwork to sign.

The Rangers keep Skjei and add Trouba to the mix.

Are we going to do 2 trades or one 3 way trade in your scenario? Isn't doing 2 trades risky in case the 2nd one fall through and we're stuck with Fowler?

 

[YoSoyLalo]

The Rangers really are in an excellent position right now. An embarrassment of riches at forward, the core players are all between the ages of 22 and 27, and they have more cap room than most teams. Not to mention the excellent start to the season.

Gorton is in a position of power here, and it seems he's exercising that power in negotiations. We just need to be patient. I think Gorton will surprise us with how good a deal he gets for either Vats or Troubs (or a another player who we don't realize was available, like with Zibs). Haven't felt this good about the Rangers current position and future since I started following the team. He's got more of a direction than Slats ever had: get younger, bigger, and faster. He pretty much built the Bruins 2011 championship in one off season, so I'm eager to see what he can do over the course of the next decade for this team. He's off to a rousing start. If he can get Chevy to cave on Trouba, he'll start to plant himself as one of the next great GMs, along with Yzerman and Nill.