Rumor: Trade Rumors/Proposals/Free Agents 2017-2018

[Langdon Alger]

Claesson have any value? A 5th maybe?

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Claesson have any value? A 5th maybe?

I'd think he'd get a 3rd at the draft.

As disappointing as his season was, NHL defenders are in short supply. He can probably be re-signed at a reasonable rate on a short term deal, most likely well under 2M per season.

Even Eric Gryba got us a mid 4th round pick. (On a side note, we used that pick on Wolanin)

 

[TheBradyBunch]

I'd think he'd get a 3rd at the draft.

As disappointing as his season was, NHL defenders are in short supply. He can probably be re-signed at a reasonable rate on a short term deal, most likely well under 2M per season.

Even Eric Gryba got us a mid 4th round pick. (On a side note, we used that pick on Wolanin)

I would be very surprised if Claesson returns a 3rd rounder. He was frequently scratched, only put up 7 pts and he was on a team that was struggling for NHL quality DMen. A 3rd would be a steal.

 

[Ouroboros]

We barely managed to squeeze out a 3rd rounder for Ian Cole and he's actually pretty decent.

I think there's a high probability (~75%) that Claesson would clear waivers.

 

[Micklebot]

We barely managed to squeeze out a 3rd rounder for Ian Cole and he's actually pretty decent.

I think there's a high probability (~75%) that Claesson would clear waivers.

3rd round for 29 year old UFA rental Cole, Claesson would be RFA. His value certainly took a hit after an awful year, and I don't know how much value he really had before that, but I don't think Cole is really a useful comparisson.

 

[Boud]

We barely managed to squeeze out a 3rd rounder for Ian Cole and he's actually pretty decent.

I think there's a high probability (~75%) that Claesson would clear waivers.

Personally I don't think he clears.

Like others have mentionned Dmen are in short supply and the guy can skate very well, has a lethal shot, and can exit the zone. That is when he's on his game and confident which he hasn't been all year.

 

[Ouroboros]

3rd round for 29 year old UFA rental Cole, Claesson would be RFA. His value certainly took a hit after an awful year, and I don't know how much value he really had before that, but I don't think Cole is really a useful comparisson.

I reckon quite a few teams wouldn't even bother to qualify Claesson so functionally he'd be valued as a UFA in many situations regardless of his actual contract status.

Team control is only useful on players worth controlling. For a player of Claesson's stature it's largely meaningless - he's a league minimum kind of player whether he's restricted or not. In fact, I'd argue his RFA status is a disadvantage in a way - as soon as you qualify Claesson you're locked into the guy due to arbitration rights. If he were unrestricted you could at least assess your options on the open market before you commit to a marginal defenseman.

Personally I don't think he clears.

Like others have mentionned Dmen are in short supply and the guy can skate very well, has a lethal shot, and can exit the zone. That is when he's on his game and confident which he hasn't been all year.

That's one way to look at Claesson I guess.

I'd say he's more of a marginal talent who has benefited from playing far too much with one of the league's best defensemen.

He's already cleared waivers twice - at the beginning of both the 15/16 and 16/17 seasons.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

I would be very surprised if Claesson returns a 3rd rounder. He was frequently scratched, only put up 7 pts and he was on a team that was struggling for NHL quality DMen. A 3rd would be a steal.

If I am a rival team looking at Claesson, I would consider that he has a solid enough skillset when it comes to skating, decision making, passing, that the Senators entire team played like garbage for almost the entire season, and that Claesson looked solid relative to his role prior to this season.

For people who brought up Cole, Cole was a rental who is set to cash in on what should be a big contract relative to his role as a UFA. Claesson has another two years of team control and while he is arbitration elgible, his poor season should allow his AAV to be kept to a relatively low number. I'd assume he'll fall in the 1.75M type range give or take depending on how well he does with arbitration.

There is not an abundance of NHL defenders, let alone cheaper cost controlled ones. I'm surprised some people here think Claesson would clear through waivers.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Trading Claesson would be selling very low. Hard to say exactly how much of him having a very bad year was on the team or himself.

I still think Claesson has got what it takes to be a decent number 4.

 

[TheBradyBunch]

If I am a rival team looking at Claesson, I would consider that he has a solid enough skillset when it comes to skating, decision making, passing, that the Senators entire team played like garbage for almost the entire season, and that Claesson looked solid relative to his role prior to this season.

For people who brought up Cole, Cole was a rental who is set to cash in on what should be a big contract relative to his role as a UFA. Claesson has another two years of team control and while he is arbitration elgible, his poor season should allow his AAV to be kept to a relatively low number. I'd assume he'll fall in the 1.75M type range give or take depending on how well he does with arbitration.

There is not an abundance of NHL defenders, let alone cheaper cost controlled ones. I'm surprised some people here think Claesson would clear through waivers.

I can't conceive of an argument as to why Claesson would get 1.75m in arbitration. He was really, really bad this season, he's never been an everyday NHLer, his numbers aren't good and his usage was minimal. He's wildly inconsistent and I really disagree that he was solid relative to his role this season. At 1.75m, he passes through waivers no question. I know that's not what you're discussing but 1.75m for Claesson is about two-times too high.

I do think he has some value... teams like Carolina, Calgary, Dallas, Minnesota, Nashville, NYI and Philly might benefit from a guy like him on the bottom pairing and I think one of them would pay a mid-rounder or a fringe prospect for him, but a 3rd?? He has no pedigree. Never been a highly rated prospect. Never been an NHL regular. If Nick Holden was traded by Colorado for a 4th after a solid season and Beaulieu was traded for a 3rd, Claesson isn't worth a 3rd. Even Gryba likely had more value when he was dealt.

I'm guessing he retained via signed QO or he's dealt for a mid/late-pick or a young-ish tweener forward.

 

[Langdon Alger]

I would be very surprised if Claesson returns a 3rd rounder. He was frequently scratched, only put up 7 pts and he was on a team that was struggling for NHL quality DMen. A 3rd would be a steal.

You could probably get someone just as good in free agency.

Claesson would likely be a 6th/7th guy if he went to a new team. Those guys are a dime a dozen.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

If I am a rival team looking at Claesson, I would consider that he has a solid enough skillset when it comes to skating, decision making, passing, that the Senators entire team played like garbage for almost the entire season, and that Claesson looked solid relative to his role prior to this season.

For people who brought up Cole, Cole was a rental who is set to cash in on what should be a big contract relative to his role as a UFA. Claesson has another two years of team control and while he is arbitration elgible, his poor season should allow his AAV to be kept to a relatively low number. I'd assume he'll fall in the 1.75M type range give or take depending on how well he does with arbitration.

There is not an abundance of NHL defenders, let alone cheaper cost controlled ones. I'm surprised some people here think Claesson would clear through waivers.

At this point 1 - 1.2 million would be my guess for Claesson thru arbitration. I would not offer him more than 715,000 the minimum qualifying offer if they are prepared to pay him that even if he clears waivers. I don't think Harpur would clear waivers and the Sens seem to like him enough. Harpur will likely have to play RD
The State of our D is pretty bad imo. If Karlsson leaves its atrociously bad. Who is driving this ship anyway?


LD
Chabot
Boro
Wolanin
Claesson RFA

RD
Karlsson ?
Ceci RFA
Harpur

Wideman UFA
Jaros

 

[Micklebot]

I reckon quite a few teams wouldn't even bother to qualify Claesson so functionally he'd be valued as a UFA in many situations regardless of his actual contract status.

Team control is only useful on players worth controlling. For a player of Claesson's stature it's largely meaningless - he's a league minimum kind of player whether he's restricted or not. In fact, I'd argue his RFA status is a disadvantage in a way - as soon as you qualify Claesson you're locked into the guy due to arbitration rights. If he were unrestricted you could at least assess your options on the open market before you commit to a marginal defenseman.



That's one way to look at Claesson I guess.

I'd say he's more of a marginal talent who has benefited from playing far too much with one of the league's best defensemen.

He's already cleared waivers twice - at the beginning of both the 15/16 and 16/17 seasons.

So he is bad enough that most teams wouldn't want to qualify him but good enough that they would lose an arbitration hearing and get locked into a bad contract?

If you thing he does not hold any value in a trade, fine, I don't disagree, I just see a comparison to Cole as largely irrelevant, there are likely better and more relevant comparisons out there imo.

 

[topshelf15]

At this point 1 - 1.2 million would be my guess for Claesson thru arbitration. I would not offer him more than 715,000 the minimum qualifying offer if they are prepared to pay him that even if he clears waivers. I don't think Harpur would clear waivers and the Sens seem to like him enough. Harpur will likely have to play RD
The State of our D is pretty bad imo. If Karlsson leaves its atrociously bad. Who is driving this ship anyway?


LD
Chabot
Boro
Wolanin
Claesson RFA

RD
Karlsson ?
Ceci RFA
Harpur

Wideman UFA
Jaros

LHD ,with a one way deal...Thinking he replaces Claesson.So a good RHD is a need for sure if we dont resign Wideman....Maybe Dobson,Bouchard??

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

that one sentence perfectly encapsulates the Ottawa Senators.
we have perhaps the best right handed D to ever play, on our blueline, in his prime. odds are he's gone, but dont worry! we will hold on to Cody Ceci - what with RHD so important and everything.

It's not something I've made up, it's been an issue for a few years in the NHL, and RHD are indeed in demand.

I am one of the few that believe that EK65 will be signed to an Extension by the Senators this summer....... and that Ceci will also be retained.

How Much Does a Right-Handed Defenseman Go For Anyway…


Short supply of righty D-men will mean big bucks for Mike Green, Cody Franson | The Hockey News

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

It's not something I've made up, it's been an issue for a few years in the NHL, and RHD are indeed in demand.

I am one of the few that believe that EK65 will be signed to an Extension by the Senators this summer....... and that Ceci will also be retained.

How Much Does a Right-Handed Defenseman Go For Anyway…


Short supply of righty D-men will mean big bucks for Mike Green, Cody Franson | The Hockey News

That issue is starting to work itself out with the emergence of USA Hockey. A lot of US kids tend to be right handed shots, compared to other hockey nations.

 

[Langdon Alger]

This is just for fun, but what if Subban has worn out his welcome in Nashville, and they want Karlsson? They trade Subban to another team and we trade Karlsson to them.

What do you want off their roster?

 

[danielpalfredsson]

This is just for fun, but what if Subban has worn out his welcome in Nashville, and they want Karlsson? They trade Subban to another team and we trade Karlsson to them.

What do you want off their roster?

Karlsson to NSH
Subban to EDM
Draisaitl to OTT

I'll hang up and listen.

 

[Langdon Alger]

Karlsson to NSH
Subban to EDM
Draisaitl to OTT

I'll hang up and listen.

If we have no chance to re-sign Karlsson, I do this easily. The only team I’m not sure that does this is Edmonton, but it’s possible. Would certainly be an interesting trade where each team gets a great player.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

If we have no chance to re-sign Karlsson, I do this easily. The only team I’m not sure that does this is Edmonton, but it’s possible. Would certainly be an interesting trade where each team gets a great player.

It makes EDM a better team IMO. Cap wise, Subban and Draisaitl are similar. It'll be a lot easier for EDM to find wingers to play with McDavid and RNH than it will for them to finally find that cornerstone puck moving D.

OTT probably gets the worse end of that deal, but I think most people would prefer a 22 year old star over a package deal in the event that things with Karlsson go south.

In your OP the presumption was that NSH would have some sort of off ice motivation for trading Subban. Even if they have to pay Karlsson 11-12 million, they have such a strong salary structure that they can swing it compared to Subban's 9M, and as good as Subban is, Karlsson is an upgrade on him for Nashville.

 

[Cosmix]

It's not something I've made up, it's been an issue for a few years in the NHL, and RHD are indeed in demand.

I am one of the few that believe that EK65 will be signed to an Extension by the Senators this summer....... and that Ceci will also be retained.

How Much Does a Right-Handed Defenseman Go For Anyway…


Short supply of righty D-men will mean big bucks for Mike Green, Cody Franson | The Hockey News

I think the Senators will sign both Karlsson and Ceci too. The defense would be even more atrocious than it is now if they don’t.

I hope the defense pairings look something like:

Chabot - Karlsson
Wolanin - Ceci
Borowiecki - Harpur/Claesson/Wideman/Jaros

Obviously I am placing a lot of hope on Wolanin improving quickly which might not happen. The RD on the third pairing is currently Harpur or Jaros who are signed but might also include one of Claesson or Wideman. I am not convinced that Harpur is the right guy, but this team is short of quality defensemen. The team could really use another second pairing Defenseman but I doubt they will get one for next season.

 

[Cosmix]

Karlsson to NSH
Subban to EDM
Draisaitl to OTT

I'll hang up and listen.

Would Edmonton not want Karlsson instead of Subban? I think so. So the deal would be Draisaitl for Karlsson. I think Ottawa would want more than just Draisaitl though. I would.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Would Edmonton not want Karlsson instead of Subban? I think so. So the deal would be Draisaitl for Karlsson. I think Ottawa would want more than just Draisaitl though. I would.

The issue would be Karlsson's potential unwillingness to extend there. If he will extend there, sure Karl for Draisaitl. I am assuming Karlsson would extend in NSH but not EDM.

Subban has 4 years of term left and no trade protection.

 

[Cosmix]

The issue would be Karlsson's potential unwillingness to extend there. If he will extend there, sure Karl for Draisaitl. I am assuming Karlsson would extend in NSH but not EDM.

Subban has 4 years of term left and no trade protection.

Good points. However, getting the opportunity to play with McDavid on a team that would be playoff bound might be attractive to Mr. K.

I wonder if Ottawa could get Draisaitl plus Edomonton’s pick #10 in this year’s draft for a signed and traded Karlsson.

I wonder too if Ottawa might trade its #4 pick to NYI for picks #11 and #12. Would make the draft very interesting.

 

[Ouroboros]

So he is bad enough that most teams wouldn't want to qualify him but good enough that they would lose an arbitration hearing and get locked into a bad contract?

If you thing he does not hold any value in a trade, fine, I don't disagree, I just see a comparison to Cole as largely irrelevant, there are likely better and more relevant comparisons out there imo.

A lot of not very good RFA defensemen get salaries/cap hits out of line with their ability. Teams bet on potential too much in these cases. There are plenty of comparables that suggest Claesson could easily land in the 1.4M - 2.0M range which is way too much in my mind. At that price point there is better value from UFA's.

If the Sens qualify Claesson and take him to arbitration (or he takes them) they can't walk away. He'd need to be awarded something like 4.25+M to trigger that option. Why lock yourself in?