Rumor: Trade Rumors/Proposals/Free Agents 2017-2018

[Burrowsaurus]

Summer Deals:
To NJ: E Karlsson RD & Anderson G
To Ott: Hall LW & Schnieder G

OR

To Columbus: Karlsson RD & Anderson G
To Ottawa: Jones RD & Bobrovsky G

These deals are a little light.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

It has not been 28 bad ones. Despite having to play the toughest opponents on a night in night out basis and getting the worst offensive available minutes, he is still very strong in the +/- category.

Arguably if he plays so much more challenged minutes and was doing so bad, then he should have the worst +/- for D men by far, yet he is at the top.

Let that sink in. Despite far worse opportunities, he seem ahead of the others.

+\- is that stat that, when it goes against a player someone likes its a trash stat. But when it backs up a player you want to defend its gold.

 

[aragorn]

These deals are a little light.

On whose side though?

 

[Mr Hat]

These deals are a little light.

Two first round picks light for me. There really is no comparison in the post lockout era but Taylor Hall? Mind blowing.

 

[Viletho]

+\- is that stat that, when it goes against a player someone likes its a trash stat. But when it backs up a player you want to defend its gold.

+/- is a stat that when you actually watch the game, it can my something.

I haven't follow the discussion. But for exemple, Karlsson -18 this season does actually reflect how bad he has been without the puck this year.

 

[WadeRedden]

Hoffman has more points than Pavelski this season. Bad comparison.

Trading Hoffman would be a mistake, but this management team and the media here have had it out for Hoff for awhile now, so if we can acquire a similar player who Boucher would play in the top 6, maybe a trade works out for both parties involved.

Also, be careful for what you wish for. If Hoff gets moved to Edmonton for example, he is definitely producing way more than he has here. Other coaches won't bury a guy with a shot like that on their third line.

It's not a bad comparison. Pavelski has outperformed Hoffman every year for the last three years. Hoffman has 5 more points than Pavelski and they're less than halfway through the season lol.

Also, what's your point with the "careful what you wish for" line? I specifically said that trading Hoffman now would be a mistake because you'd be selling low and he's likely to put up impressive numbers playing with a better centre.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

On whose side though?

Theirs. Theyre getting the best d man in the NHL.

Edit: do you actually think NJ and Columbus are overpaying?

Now that I think the jackets one isn't the worst. That NJ one Though

 

[Burrowsaurus]

+/- is a stat that when you actually watch the game, it can my something.

I haven't follow the discussion. But for exemple, Karlsson -18 this season does actually reflect how bad he has been without the puck this year.

Does Cody cecis +/- accurately describe how great he's been relative to our other D?

And no. - 18 is horrendous. Karlsson hasn't been horrendous. He hasn't been himself. But he hasn't been a -18 d man either lol

 

[WadeRedden]

Of all of the core players I actually care about on this team right now, Dzingel is pretty far down the list.

I mean, I don't want to give the guy away or anything, he clearly has value, but if we're talking about "untradeable" players, he's not anywhere close to that list.

Agreed. He's certainly not as important as Karlsson, Chabot, Hoffman etc. I'm just worried that they're going to trade him for a worse player purely for the sake of "shaking things up." Frankly, the Sens kind of suck when it comes to pro-scouting and I can't envision them trading a guy like Dzingel for a similar calibre player.

 

[ottawah]

+\- is that stat that, when it goes against a player someone likes its a trash stat. But when it backs up a player you want to defend its gold.

+/- is only good in comparing players on the same team. Even then it has limited value when players play entirely different roles. But when on the same team, one guy plays a predominantly defensive role with a high QOC and low offensive zone starts and the other plays a predominantly offensive role with a lower QOC and a high ratio of offensive zone starts, and the guy in the bad situation looks much better, it says something.

Advanced stats also bear this out. When you look at Corsi adjusted for QOC, the rankings on the team are Chabot, Ceci, Phaneuf, Wideman, Karlsson, Claesson, Harper, Borowicki. And in corsi adjusted for quality of teammates he is only second to Phaneuf and only one of two D men above 50%. And he gets noticeably less offensive zone starts than Phaneuf or Chabot.

Those advanced stats indicate that when factors such as linemates and competition and zone starts are accounted for, he has the best advanced stats on the team, and that bears out in the +/-.


I'm certainly not saying he is the best D man on the team, nor even a great one, but what he does is eat up the toughest minutes on the team and plays others to a stand stand still in one of the hardest to fill positions in the league. You need guys like that to win games.

 

[Micklebot]

+/- is only good in comparing players on the same team. Even then it has limited value when players play entirely different roles. But when on the same team, one guy plays a predominantly defensive role with a high QOC and low offensive zone starts and the other plays a predominantly offensive role with a lower QOC and a high ratio of offensive zone starts, and the guy in the bad situation looks much better, it says something.

Advanced stats also bear this out. When you look at Corsi adjusted for QOC, the rankings on the team are Chabot, Ceci, Phaneuf, Wideman, Karlsson, Claesson, Harper, Borowicki. And in corsi adjusted for quality of teammates he is only second to Phaneuf and only one of two D men above 50%. And he gets noticeably less offensive zone starts than Phaneuf or Chabot.

Those advanced stats indicate that when factors such as linemates and competition and zone starts are accounted for, he has the best advanced stats on the team, and that bears out in the +/-.


I'm certainly not saying he is the best D man on the team, nor even a great one, but what he does is eat up the toughest minutes on the team and plays others to a stand stand still in one of the hardest to fill positions in the league. You need guys like that to win games.

What is your source for these qoc adjusted stats?

 

[JD1]

+/- is only good in comparing players on the same team. Even then it has limited value when players play entirely different roles. But when on the same team, one guy plays a predominantly defensive role with a high QOC and low offensive zone starts and the other plays a predominantly offensive role with a lower QOC and a high ratio of offensive zone starts, and the guy in the bad situation looks much better, it says something.

Advanced stats also bear this out. When you look at Corsi adjusted for QOC, the rankings on the team are Chabot, Ceci, Phaneuf, Wideman, Karlsson, Claesson, Harper, Borowicki. And in corsi adjusted for quality of teammates he is only second to Phaneuf and only one of two D men above 50%. And he gets noticeably less offensive zone starts than Phaneuf or Chabot.

Those advanced stats indicate that when factors such as linemates and competition and zone starts are accounted for, he has the best advanced stats on the team, and that bears out in the +/-.


I'm certainly not saying he is the best D man on the team, nor even a great one, but what he does is eat up the toughest minutes on the team and plays others to a stand stand still in one of the hardest to fill positions in the league. You need guys like that to win games.

I used to devour advanced stats as the field advanced but the shine has really come off them for me. They got out of hand a few years back and many of them are not statistically valid or relevant.

Advanced stats are meaningless to pro hockey players. Never have I heard a pro mention how their doing per 60. They do however frequently mention not being on the ice for a goal against. That matters to them and if it matters to them it's relevant. Ceci's +/- given his assignments and the team's recent stretch of trouble scoring is impressive.

Hey you know maybe it's sheer random luck that the puck doesn't go in our net when Ceci is on the ice. We need the luck.

 

[JD1]

Does Cody cecis +/- accurately describe how great he's been relative to our other D?

And no. - 18 is horrendous. Karlsson hasn't been horrendous. He hasn't been himself. But he hasn't been a -18 d man either lol

He's been pretty horrendous. He's been trying to be EK without the ability to be EK. He looked bad on the first Ranger goal the other night but for the first time in awhile I saw some EK coming out in his game. Ultimately he may need to reinvent himself as a hockey player. I hope not because imo he drove play more than any player in the league the past few years.

 

[Duncstar]

I think the negativity has effected all of us recently... I think we should keep karlsson because it would right the ship from the alfredson years. I dont think hes being traded and for better or worse, its the right call.

Whats interesting right now is that we have alot of puzzle pieces that fit into other teams needs.

Pageau to Penguins for Ian Cole.

Hoffman to Edmonton for Maroon and 2018 1st.

Ceci to Nyi for a 1st, 2nd and prospect.

Lots of rebuild options. Solid LHD, P9 takes Cecis spot and Chabot will be the 5/6 RH puck retreiver (offside). Maroon is a big body.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I think the negativity has effected all of us recently... I think we should keep karlsson because it would right the ship from the alfredson years. I dont think hes being traded and for better or worse, its the right call.

Whats interesting right now is that we have alot of puzzle pieces that fit into other teams needs.

Pageau to Penguins for Ian Cole.

Hoffman to Edmonton for Maroon and 2018 1st.

Ceci to Nyi for a 1st, 2nd and prospect.

Lots of rebuild options. Solid LHD, P9 takes Cecis spot and Chabot will be the 5/6 RH puck retreiver (offside). Maroon is a big body.

Dude. WHAT?!!!?!?!?!?!

 

[Sensfanatic]

I think the negativity has effected all of us recently... I think we should keep karlsson because it would right the ship from the alfredson years. I dont think hes being traded and for better or worse, its the right call.

Whats interesting right now is that we have alot of puzzle pieces that fit into other teams needs.

Pageau to Penguins for Ian Cole.

Hoffman to Edmonton for Maroon and 2018 1st.

Ceci to Nyi for a 1st, 2nd and prospect.

Lots of rebuild options. Solid LHD, P9 takes Cecis spot and Chabot will be the 5/6 RH puck retreiver (offside). Maroon is a big body.

This post is bat**** crazy.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I think the negativity has effected all of us recently... I think we should keep karlsson because it would right the ship from the alfredson years. I dont think hes being traded and for better or worse, its the right call.

Whats interesting right now is that we have alot of puzzle pieces that fit into other teams needs.

Pageau to Penguins for Ian Cole.

Hoffman to Edmonton for Maroon and 2018 1st.

Ceci to Nyi for a 1st, 2nd and prospect.

Lots of rebuild options. Solid LHD, P9 takes Cecis spot and Chabot will be the 5/6 RH puck retreiver (offside). Maroon is a big body.

Pageau to Penguins for Ian Cole. - NFW
Hoffman to Edmonton for Maroon and 2018 1st. - NFW
Ceci to Nyi for a 1st, 2nd and prospect. - depends on the prospect

 

[50 in 07]

Summer Deals:
To NJ: E Karlsson RD & Anderson G
To Ott: Hall LW & Schnieder G

OR

To Columbus: Karlsson RD & Anderson G
To Ottawa: Jones RD & Bobrovsky G

NJ trade is atrocious for us. Hall got traded for Larsson, now he's the centerpiece for Karlsson? Don't think much more needs to be said.

CBJ trade is pretty significantly tilted in our favor, they would hang up the phone. Yeah Karlsson is obviously way, way better than Jones. But, Jones is 23, signed on an amazing contract, and already a top pairing D whereas Karlsson is going to be easily double his AAV. Value wise, Karlsson is still ahead of Jones but when you add the current best goalie in the league (who's also only 29), and we get to dump Anderson, then it gets unrealistic.

 

[ottawah]

What is your source for these qoc adjusted stats?

Corsica | Skater Stats

 

[Duncstar]

Hoff for Maroon plus has been circulating for abit.

What kind of return do you really expect from Pageau? Ok maybe not Cole but we need a solid defenseman on the Leftside.

The Karl trade ideas should really just stop until the summer....

 

[Bileur]

Hoff for Maroon plus has been circulating for abit.

What kind of return do you really expect from Pageau? Ok maybe not Cole but we need a solid defenseman on the Leftside.

The Karl trade ideas should really just stop until the summer....

Hoffman for Maroon would be absolutely horrific.

Older, slower, less skilled, less able to create his own offense, only impressive production is with the art Ross winner.

God I hope that’s not true.

 

[CREW99AW]

I th
Pageau to Penguins for Ian Cole.


Ceci to Nyi for a 1st, 2nd and prospect.

You badly overrate Ceci if you think the nyi would give up a 1st +2nd +prospect for him.

Would be more interested in Pageau then Ceci anyway.

 

[Viletho]

Does Cody cecis +/- accurately describe how great he's been relative to our other D?

And no. - 18 is horrendous. Karlsson hasn't been horrendous. He hasn't been himself. But he hasn't been a -18 d man either lol

Regarding Ceci, i don't think his +/- reflect the fact that he get hemmed in his zone a lot. And you know it.. But when you take into account his role and limited offensive role, don't you think it is good that he is only -1? Especially in a team that is around -25 global and for a "garbage" dman.

It means two things even of he get hemmed in his zone
1. He isn't getting scored a lot at 5v5.
2. If 1 isn't true, then he is on the ice for around the same amount of GF.

Now you compare to Karlsson who is being put in a lot of offensive situation, he simply is not getting it done, and he get score A LOT. And if you watch, you know he is largely responsible for a lot of these goal.

It would be interesting to see the amount of GF and GA for Ottawa's dman. And maybe GF60 and GA60.

Someone can find these stats?

I just want to said again. +/- is a very bad stat to prove that someone ia better ten someone else. But of you watch the game, understand the context, then i can be usefull. Karlsson is playing like a -18 dman recently. He let guys to the net way to easily. But with context, you can understand that he isn't at 100% at that's probably why he isn't playing that well.

 

[50 in 07]

Hoff for Maroon plus has been circulating for abit.

What kind of return do you really expect from Pageau? Ok maybe not Cole but we need a solid defenseman on the Leftside.

The Karl trade ideas should really just stop until the summer....

Hoffman for Maroon has been circulating a bit? I'd love to know which actual credible source has said anything remotely similar. If you mean on circulating on HF, that's just random Oil fans wishful thinking. We're not going to trade our only legit sniper for an older, worse pending UFA whose production has come when stapled to McDavid.

As for the D, you realize we have Phaneuf/Chabot/Claesson/Harpur/Boro/Oduya down the left side. Not sure why we'd need yet another mediocre LHD option in Cole, especially not at the cost of one of the best 3Cs in the league.

 

[Fandlauer]

Hock Karlsson now. The longer the term on his contract, the more we'll get for him. He'd be out of his mind to stay on this team, not that we'd consider resigning him anyway.