Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread Part 16

[Habs Icing]

going to be interesting to see what the plan is, they have to get us help. Suggesting to trade Weber isn't an option, it's just trolling. Anyone suggesting to trade the 2nd leading goal scorer on defense is either so stupid it's not funny or clearly has an axe to grind/crap to spew. This team needs goals so bad it's not funny and we should trade the guy that only 1 defensemen in the NHL has more goals. Right.

Whiskey7 isn't stupid. He just has a huge, dull axe to grind. The funny thing is I'll bet he hasn't seen a game this year he's in Europe and continues to make pronouncements on one of the best d-men in the league. (P.S. I'm talking about Weber - not the player we traded away).

 

[jaffy27]

actually, as he said himself a few times already... the plan is to make the PO, then anything can happen.

And why does he want to make the playoffs??

 

[Sterling Archer]

Only way that penalty goes back on Nashville is if he retires before the new CBA is in place.

Well that's doubtful. The reason there is the recapture in the first place was because of the latest CBA where they consciously decided to punished the owners of those ridiculous front loaded contracts to subvert the initial cap. It's highly unlikely they change course before the punishment they meaded out actually punishes the clubs. Not to mention that it'll take away an advantage to the clubs that took on these contracts like the Habs who'll lose leverage and be put at a disadvantage.

Webers recapture is absolutely a hand Montréal might get to play in the years to come to trade back to Nashville or a team in their conference to exert pressure on them. Weber retiring 1 year before the end of the contract could destroy the Preds franchise with a $20MM hit that year, they'd have to make a number of significant trades to clear that space.

 

[Fazkovsky]

Bouwmeester isn't that good anymore

But anything is better than Emelin at this point

 

[BLONG7]

Bouwmeester isn't that good anymore

But anything is better than Emelin at this point

I think MB is looking at acquiring Oduya, a playoff type of vet...and a guy he knows...

How many teams right now, are considered sellers? 6-8 teams?

 

[Sterling Archer]

I think MB is looking at acquiring Oduya, a playoff type of vet...and a guy he knows...

How many teams right now, are considered sellers? 6-8 teams?

I can easily see a Oduya and Sharp trade to Montreal.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

Whiskey7 isn't stupid. He just has a huge, dull axe to grind. The funny thing is I'll bet he hasn't seen a game this year he's in Europe and continues to make pronouncements on one of the best d-men in the league. (P.S. I'm talking about Weber - not the player we traded away).

I'd appreciate you not projecting motivations on my behalf, thanks. I was initially lukewarm toward the trade but then I read some analysis and did some thinking and realised that Weber's extremely overrated and Subban wasn't as overrated as I thought he was. But now I'm not crying over spilled milk (my defenses of Subban are independent to the trade - many of y'all attacked his character and person and I defended him as a player and person, and will continue to do so) I'm specifically focused on Weber and what he brings today and what he'll bring in the near-future and beyond. And it's extremely worrisome.

I've watched maybe 20-25 games this year, and every highlight of course. I'm a fan, I try to catch as many games as I can. What I've seen of Weber is exactly what the rest of you have seen - don't try to deny that he's terrible with the puck. I know better.

And why wouldn't I have an axe to grind against an extremely overrated and overpaid d-man?

Well that's doubtful. The reason there is the recapture in the first place was because of the latest CBA where they consciously decided to punished the owners of those ridiculous front loaded contracts to subvert the initial cap. It's highly unlikely they change course before the punishment they meaded out actually punishes the clubs. Not to mention that it'll take away an advantage to the clubs that took on these contracts like the Habs who'll lose leverage and be put at a disadvantage.

Webers recapture is absolutely a hand Montréal might get to play in the years to come to trade back to Nashville or a team in their conference to exert pressure on them. Weber retiring 1 year before the end of the contract could destroy the Preds franchise with a $20MM hit that year, they'd have to make a number of significant trades to clear that space.

I just don't like planning around another franchise's moves. Maybe they'll be broke and dismantled in five years, what then? Maybe he won't retire? What then?

 

[Sterling Archer]

I'd appreciate you not projecting motivations on my behalf, thanks. I was initially lukewarm toward the trade but then I read some analysis and did some thinking and realised that Weber's extremely overrated and Subban wasn't as overrated as I thought he was. But now I'm not crying over spilled milk (my defenses of Subban are independent to the trade - many of y'all attacked his character and person and I defended him as a player and person, and will continue to do so) I'm specifically focused on Weber and what he brings today and what he'll bring in the near-future and beyond. And it's extremely worrisome.

I've watched maybe 20-25 games this year, and every highlight of course. I'm a fan, I try to catch as many games as I can. What I've seen of Weber is exactly what the rest of you have seen - don't try to deny that he's terrible with the puck. I know better.

And why wouldn't I have an axe to grind against an extremely overrated and overpaid d-man?


I just don't like planning around another franchise's moves. Maybe they'll be broke and dismantled in five years, what then? Maybe he won't retire? What then?

Nashville going bankrupt in 5 years and folding is not a possibility. Look at Arizona who went bankrupt years ago and are still kicking around.

You can always "make" a player retire. Put him in the minors, threaten a trade to an undesirable team, send them home all together etc. Player won't hang on like that for years just to help out the team who traded him in the first place.

 

[Adriatic]

I can easily see a Oduya and Sharp trade to Montreal.

Not really a Sharp fan these days, his game has deteriorated but anything is better than what we have now on the PP playing that left side. We absolutely need a right hander on the pp for one timers playing low. All our playmakers are left handed playing on the right side and they're only option is to set up Weber, the whole planet knows whats coming. We need another sniper on that side so opposing teams don't cheat on Weber all the time.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

Nashville going bankrupt in 5 years and folding is not a possibility. Look at Arizona who went bankrupt years ago and are still kicking around.

You can always "make" a player retire. Put him in the minors, threaten a trade to an undesirable team, send them home all together etc. Player won't hang on like that for years just to help out the team who traded him in the first place.

Breaking league and PA rules and breaching ethical lines is a poor organisation strategy.

Weber is a declining asset. He's on the wrong side of 30 and his cap hit is huge. If Pleks at 34 (and little wear-and-tear) is all-but-done, what will Weber be in three years? These are the contracts that good organisations don't take on unless they absolutely have to. Weber is clearly not an indispensable player, not matter his goal totals. He's not Brent Burns, he's not Pronger - he shouldn't be venerated as such.

 

[Habs Icing]

I'd appreciate you not projecting motivations on my behalf, thanks.

And why wouldn't I have an axe to grind against an extremely overrated and overpaid d-man?

I say you got an axe to grind. You ask me not to project motivations on your behalf and then in the same breath ask why you shouldn't have an axe to grind. Was that a conscious or unconscious attempt at irony?

 

[Sterling Archer]

Breaking league and PA rules and breaching ethical lines is a poor organisation strategy.

Weber is a declining asset. He's on the wrong side of 30 and his cap hit is huge. If Pleks at 34 (and little wear-and-tear) is all-but-done, what will Weber be in three years? These are the contracts that good organisations don't take on unless they absolutely have to. Weber is clearly not an indispensable player, not matter his goal totals. He's not Brent Burns, he's not Pronger - he shouldn't be venerated as such.

Nothing illegal at all about anything I described and happens all the time in the leagues.

Your contention that Weber is declining is severely overreactive. He's putting up his same 20 goals 50 point season he had been his entire career all the while playing with EMELIN. If you ask me, he's killing it and going above what I'd expect from him.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

I say you got an axe to grind. You ask me not to project motivations on your behalf and then in the same breath ask why you shouldn't have an axe to grind. Was that a conscious or unconscious attempt at irony?

You implied the grinding of my axe was due to the Subban trade and the fact I hadn't even watched Weber. I disagree on both points. Subban isn't a Habs, so be it. Weber the player today is sub-par and an inevitable cap disaster. I've seen him play, I'm not impressed. THAT'S why I'm grinding my axe.

And most folks are gonna come around and admit it. The sooner we drop our silly politicisation of the Habs the better. There shouldn't be a pro-management or anti-management contingent, we could be critical of management (and want them gone) while accepting different moves were good and progressive to the overall picture.

I think acquiring Radulov was a good move for a contending team. I think firing Therrien was a good move, very very overdue though. I also think that Weber is a disaster of a contract and we should move him as soon as the season is done, no matter what we paid to get him.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

Nothing illegal at all about anything I described and happens all the time in the leagues.

Your contention that Weber is declining is severely overreactive. He's putting up his same 20 goals 50 point season he had been his entire career all the while playing with EMELIN. If you ask me, he's killing it and going above what I'd expect from him.

It's NOT about points. MAB had some good seasons. Souray had some big point getting seasons too.

It's about sustained pressure and tilting the ice. Weber plays a lot of minutes, but he doesn't help sustain pressure on the other team. It's exhausting and extremely counter-productive if the point of the game is to score more goals than the opponent. And he's a few slowing steps behind of just falling off a cliff and not being able to do anything in both ends.

I think he's definitely a good player but his toolset is not suited for this team, and especially not suited to his contract. I'm mostly critical of his contract tbh.

 

[Sterling Archer]

It's NOT about points. MAB had some good seasons. Souray had some big point getting seasons too.

It's about sustained pressure and tilting the ice. Weber plays a lot of minutes, but he doesn't help sustain pressure on the other team. It's exhausting and extremely counter-productive if the point of the game is to score more goals than the opponent. And he's a few slowing steps behind of just falling off a cliff and not being able to do anything in both ends.

I think he's definitely a good player but his toolset is not suited for this team, and especially not suited to his contract. I'm mostly critical of his contract tbh.

That's what it is for you. He's a point getter and our most reliable D. That's not enough for you. Trust me. We ALL know how you feel about Weber. You're not convincing anyone otherwise.

 

[themilosh]

I think Weber is a great addition to our team for the next 2 years. Thereafter he will have immense trade potential back to Nashville. They will have no choice but to take him back. Even at half the on ice value, hes worth more on ice than retiring.
I think people are underestimating the dire situation Nashville is in.
We would be doing them a favour to trade him back for PK and a 1st rounder in 3 years. Or for 2 x 1st and 2 x 2nd rounders.

 

[rockjngo]

we have $3.7 mil in cap space now. On deadline day we have $4.1 mil cap space.

Trust me. There will be a trade or two coming.

 

[1993]

I don't get the piling-on of W7 here. Weber has been very average which pisses me off as we traded a dynamic and younger player for him. I was okay with the trade at first but wish we could go back and see what other offers were out there. Weber looks slow and clumsy. I don't hate him but would rather have Subban back.

 

[1909]

I don't get the piling-on of W7 here. Weber has been very average which pisses me off as we traded a dynamic and younger player for him. I was okay with the trade at first but wish we could go back and see what other offers were out there. Weber looks slow and clumsy. I don't hate him but would rather have Subban back.

Team would not be better with PK on d this year, like last year when he was around and the team was sinking too.

 

[Belial]

Really need a LHD for Weber. The problem none are available, maybe Kulikov could work. Not sure he is better then Beaulieu but he be cheap 2nd round maybe b level prospect and a 3rd or 4th.

How a guy who has 2 points in 35 games and is a -14 is going to help?

 

[ChesterNimitz]

Breaking league and PA rules and breaching ethical lines is a poor organisation strategy.

Weber is a declining asset. He's on the wrong side of 30 and his cap hit is huge. If Pleks at 34 (and little wear-and-tear) is all-but-done, what will Weber be in three years? These are the contracts that good organisations don't take on unless they absolutely have to. Weber is clearly not an indispensable player, not matter his goal totals. He's not Brent Burns, he's not Pronger - he shouldn't be venerated as such.

While I was not fan of the trade ( I thought we could have gotten more than Weber for Subban) I am not as concerned about Weber's age and feared decline as some are. Weber's game has never been not built on speed and mobility and thus age will have a lesser impact on him than those players whose main attribute is speed. Look at Stevens and Chara who were both effective and impactful players through their 30s.

Weber's play is not the reason for the team's recent and continuing struggles. The problem with the team is that several of the team's expected core and expensive players have regressed or remained unproductive. Plekanec, Markov and Deharnais compose almost 20% of the team's cap space. Their collective non-production is one of the main parachutes holding back this team. Until they are replaced with more productive and impactful players, this team will remain only a pretender. You can change coaches, but such action is only a diversion from the obvious: that the talent on the ice is simply inadequate.

 

[1909]

While I was not fan of the trade ( I thought we could have gotten more than Weber for Subban) I am not as concerned about Weber's age and feared decline as some are. Weber's game has never been not built on speed and mobility and thus age will have a lesser impact on him than those players whose main attribute is speed. Look at Stevens and Chara who were both effective and impactful players through their 30s.

Weber's play is not the reason for the team's recent and continuing struggles. The problem with the team is that several of the team's expected core and expensive players have regressed or remained unproductive. Plekanec, Markov and Deharnais compose almost 20% of the team's cap space. Their collective non-production is one of the main parachutes holding back this team. Until they are replaced with more productive and impactful players, this team will remain only a pretender. You can change coaches, but such action is only a diversion from the obvious: that the talent on the ice is simply inadequate.

Well said !

 

[ChesterNimitz]

How a guy who has 2 points in 35 games and is a -14 is going to help?

People should listen to Buffalo fans who are hoping, praying, that some team offers a second round pick for this often injured player.

 

[Adriatic]

While I was not fan of the trade ( I thought we could have gotten more than Weber for Subban) I am not as concerned about Weber's age and feared decline as some are. Weber's game has never been not built on speed and mobility and thus age will have a lesser impact on him than those players whose main attribute is speed. Look at Stevens and Chara who were both effective and impactful players through their 30s.

Weber's play is not the reason for the team's recent and continuing struggles. The problem with the team is that several of the team's expected core and expensive players have regressed or remained unproductive. Plekanec, Markov and Deharnais compose almost 20% of the team's cap space. Their collective non-production is one of the main parachutes holding back this team. Until they are replaced with more productive and impactful players, this team will remain only a pretender. You can change coaches, but such action is only a diversion from the obvious: that the talent on the ice is simply inadequate.

Bang on.

 

[WG]

While I was not fan of the trade ( I thought we could have gotten more than Weber for Subban) I am not as concerned about Weber's age and feared decline as some are. Weber's game has never been not built on speed and mobility and thus age will have a lesser impact on him than those players whose main attribute is speed. Look at Stevens and Chara who were both effective and impactful players through their 30s.

Weber's play is not the reason for the team's recent and continuing struggles. The problem with the team is that several of the team's expected core and expensive players have regressed or remained unproductive. Plekanec, Markov and Deharnais compose almost 20% of the team's cap space. Their collective non-production is one of the main parachutes holding back this team. Until they are replaced with more productive and impactful players, this team will remain only a pretender. You can change coaches, but such action is only a diversion from the obvious: that the talent on the ice is simply inadequate.

A reasonable position but I don't think I'd necessarily lump Markov in. In terms of cap hit/expectation/performance I'd say Markov realtively speaking has been pulling his weight.