HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #87: 2024 Season Finale

[Leto]

Laraque is not a good insider with me. He just likes to run his mouth and for some reason, he gets exposure.

Yes, he is not an insider. It's more that his noise has been amplified and regurgitated by other media.​

 

[sampollock]

Bust? Really?

I'm legit curious as to what a "bust" is to you?

As far as NHL games played...
He's 5th from his draft class...
& 11th from combined 2019 (23 dmen in first 2 rounds) & 2020 (14 dmen in Rd 1/2) class.

He's also t-6th in goals scored by dmen from those two classes.

Not that games played or goals are the definitive standard, but I find it fascinating that a player who has achieved more than the vast majority of his draft peers (+1 older draft year) in the NHL could be viewed as a "bust" before his 23rd birthday?

Are the 26 other dmen picked in the top 2 rounds those two years who haven't seen as much NHL time also busts?

many are saying on this board as well that he is not a top 6 d man.
but if you figure he is, he might be.
just don't think he is top 6 dman
many mistakes, not tough enough for bottom 6

Justin Barron vs Jakob Pelletier ? Both are 22 years old and need a new start

so is that a bust? some posters don't think he is a failed trade

 

[ChesterNimitz]

If I base it on the 98.5 FM poll question currently, in Mario Languesale’s show — who would you want to sign between Stammer and Marchessault?

Neither.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I have a feeling that Barron is a bust. we will see. but he seems to be a weak link

He's going to take years (like Beaulieu or Matheson) to mature or it happens in the next season or two. Others like Struble, Harris, Mailloux have shown maturity in their own zone sooner.

Barron's got the package you want. Size, Skating, Shot and he is a rare RD. IMO, his only issue is between the ears. IQ. He has to comprehend D zone coverage. He made some gains last year but needs more. Maybe he needs more consistent NHL time but not sure learning on the job is in the cards for MSL next season.

Not a bust with me. Just might be a prolonged development frustration.

 

[Miller Time]

No reason for us to sell low on any of our young D and Matheson/Savard are locks until at least after January and/or until an offer we can't refuse turns up.

Start season with

Matheson Guhle
Xhekaj Barron
Harris Savard
Kovacevic


Laval top 4
Hutson RB
Strubble Mailloux

Injuries in Mtl will open up roster spots/call up opportunities and/or injuries in other teams will ramp up trade value for a Harris/Kovacevic/Barron.

If we do make a move this summer (& not in a package for a top 6 / top 4 established talent):

Harris minimum 2nd
Kovacevic minimum 3rd + depth prospect
Barron minimum late 1st/high 2nd + decent prospect

Can't see any reason we'd accept anything less value-wise

 

[Miller Time]

many are saying on this board as well that he is not a top 6 d man.
but if you figure he is, he might be.
just don't think he is top 6 dman
many mistakes, not tough enough for bottom 6

So do you think the '19 & '20 draft classes will only have ~10 dmen total that become top 6?

He's shown as much or more than all but ~10 of the other dmen from those classes.

This is where context seems to be lacking from the "he's just not a top 6 dman" assessment.

Young dmen make mistakes, and take longer on average than fwds to establish themselves as NHL regulars. Ignoring that we'll established context is weird?

 

[Sterling Archer]

Armia and Dvorak are in the final year Heineman, Yolonen, RHP, Farrell, Pezz all couldn’t establish them self without anyone blocking them, are very replaceable or just are just not suited for bottom 6 roles…

Getting a player as good as Harris out of draft is already very good outcome trading him for a late 2nd or 3rd that like trading a 5$ winning lotto ticket for 2$ scratch off… We have very little player with Pospisil profil, I rather trade Harris for a legit and young bottom 6, that way you are not chasing size or grinders in the draft focus on picking the BPA or aren’t overpaying for established guy (like TB did). Late 2nd and 3rd… we already have ton of avg picks. If you are going for a pick, better off packaging him for actual good pick, late 1st early 2nd.

Heineman and Farrell have a combined TEN games in the NHL. Not exactly the bar I'd set for auditioning a rookie in the NHL. I wouldn't say that they "couldn't establish" themselves with that small a sample size.

 

[Habs Halifax]

If the Preds were interested, would you trade Primeau, Jets 1st, Barron, for Askarov?

Askarov has more potential to most fans but when I look at their AHL numbers, it's closer than I would imagined. Very curious to see who's better when we look back 5 years from now. What is the gap between these two at the NHL level.

3 year age gap so it's reasonable to assume Askarov is on a better pace in development.

Heineman and Farrell have a combined TEN games in the NHL. Not exactly the bar I'd set for auditioning a rookie in the NHL. I wouldn't say that they "couldn't establish" themselves with that small a sample size.

You won't know until you try it for more than 10 games.

 

[vokiel]

Justin Barron vs Jakob Pelletier ? Both are 22 years old and need a new start

I'd do RHP for Pelletier, that's more like an apple for another apple.

If the Preds were interested, would you trade Primeau, Jets 1st, Barron, for Askarov?

Yes, of course, but the Preds could get more than that, so it's not realistic.

 

[calder candidate]

Heineman and Farrell have a combined TEN games in the NHL. Not exactly the bar I'd set for auditioning a rookie in the NHL. I wouldn't say that they "couldn't establish" themselves with that small a sample size.

Couldn’t establish them self or are avg player or aren’t suited for bottom 6, not all player fall in the same category… in the case of Heineman might not have the chance to establish himself/injury but he couldn’t beat out pretty avg competition… not throwing in the towel but I think it is fair to say that most have cooled down / every team have 1-2 of these guys… Farrell hasn’t had a chance, might be above avg. but he isn’t suited to play bottom 6…

 

[Sterling Archer]

Couldn’t establish them self or are avg player or aren’t suited for bottom 6, not all player fall in the same category… in the case of Heineman might not have the chance to establish himself/injury but he couldn’t beat out pretty avg competition… not throwing in the towel but I think it is fair to say that most have cooled down / every team have 1-2 of these guys… Farrell hasn’t had a chance, might be above avg. but he isn’t suited to play bottom 6…

I don' think we or Habs have seen enough of them to make any determination. It wasn't up to them to beat out bottom 6 Hab players who Habs were also evaluating like Ylonen and RHP.

This camp is when I can see Habs looking to see if they can take the next step along with several other prospects to see if they can make the big club. There will hopefully be some spots available with players like Ylonen, RHP etc. showing they couldn't cut it in the NHL. Now it's the youngsters time to shine so I'm not writing them off at all just yet. Heinemann in particular has the tools to be an effective bottom 6 player.

 

[sampollock]

So do you think the '19 & '20 draft classes will only have ~10 dmen total that become top 6?

He's shown as much or more than all but ~10 of the other dmen from those classes.

This is where context seems to be lacking from the "he's just not a top 6 dman" assessment.

Young dmen make mistakes, and take longer on average than fwds to establish themselves as NHL regulars. Ignoring that we'll established context is weird?

you may be right not arguing with you
many on this board have commented that he is not top 6
again hope your right. but just watch the threads I am on of many that have commented on it

 

[Miller Time]

you may be right not arguing with you
many on this board have commented that he is not top 6
again hope your right. but just watch the threads I am on of many that have commented on it

Many on this board wrote Slaf off as a bad pick before Xmas...

The mob opinion isn't a great assessment source.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Yes, of course, but the Preds could get more than that, so it's not realistic.

Depends on how they asses Primeau I guess. But yeah, they probably want something more in lines with the 1/1 flip where they get a D or F.

 

[Kosseca]

No reason for us to sell low on any of our young D and Matheson/Savard are locks until at least after January and/or until an offer we can't refuse turns up.

Start season with

Matheson Guhle
Xhekaj Barron
Harris Savard
Kovacevic


Laval top 4
Hutson RB
Strubble Mailloux

Injuries in Mtl will open up roster spots/call up opportunities and/or injuries in other teams will ramp up trade value for a Harris/Kovacevic/Barron.

If we do make a move this summer (& not in a package for a top 6 / top 4 established talent):

Harris minimum 2nd
Kovacevic minimum 3rd + depth prospect
Barron minimum late 1st/high 2nd + decent prospect

Can't see any reason we'd accept anything less value-wise

This is the safe mode version of next year opening roster. And I agree that there is no need to push for a trade, which as you said, allow KH to wait for a good trade to come along. As such, while i'm expecting a D to leave, I would not be surprise if this isn't happening.

 

[sampollock]

Many on this board wrote Slaf off as a bad pick before Xmas...

The mob opinion isn't a great assessment source.

Never said it was. but please when you see ones talk against Barron, chime to their comments
Sorry I've never seen you explain your side to other posters I must have missed it


we will see, I hope it works out with the young guy

 

[Kosseca]

If the Preds were interested, would you trade Primeau, Jets 1st, Barron, for Askarov?

Pfff.... I see the value of Askarov, but I dont see the need. I think that MTL has enough G in the system and this make this trade a waste of assets. I would think that it would be preferable to get a C/W with our assets.

For this to make sense, you need to do the "paper clip" trade: get Aslarov below market value and that wont happen.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Pfff.... I see the value of Askarov, but I dont see the need. I think that MTL has enough G in the system and this make this trade a waste of assets. I would think that it would be preferable to get a C/W with our assets.

For this to make sense, you need to do the "paper clip" trade: get Aslarov below market value and that wont happen.

Most will give Askarov a high grade in trade value. But I do tend to agree with you. I only posted it to see the overall comments towards it. I was curious.

I'm comfortable with Monty, Primeau, Fowler. Would I do that trade? Not sure because I really like what Primeau showed this past year. Even with the small number of games played. No guarantees Askarov is the next Russian great in net.

 

[Kosseca]

Most will give Askarov a high grade in trade value. But I do tend to agree with you. I only posted it to see the overall comments towards it. I was curious.

I'm comfortable with Monty, Primeau, Fowler. Would I do that trade? Not sure because I really like what Primeau showed this past year. Even with the small number of games played. No guarantees Askarov is the next Russian great in net.

I feel like you. I dont see G as a weak spot for now. Last year at the same time, the idea of Askarov would have been different not knowing how Monty, Primeau and Allen would do. But after drafting Fowler (and his season in the NCAA) and seeing both Primeau and Monty do good enough last season, i'm more incline to take a wait and see approach with G for the next 2 seasons. Unless NSH is willing to give him up for free

That said... we know that there are hole at the C/W, so I prefer we address know deficiencies to potential ones.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I feel like you. I dont see G as a weak spot for now. Last year at the same time, the idea of Askarov would have been different not knowing how Monty, Primeau and Allen would do. But after drafting Fowler (and his season in the NCAA) and seeing both Primeau and Monty do good enough last season, i'm more incline to take a wait and see approach with G for the next 2 seasons. Unless NSH is willing to give him up for free

That said... we know that there are hole at the C/W, so I prefer we address know deficiencies to potential ones.

Fowler is an interesting one. Seems to have the "it" factor and loads of confidence. We are in a decent spot with Monty/Primeau while we wait to see how Fowler develops.

 

[Scintillating10]

According to Pagnotta, Calgary is looking for D and is one of the many teams calling about Xhekaj.
Thankfully, it doesn't seem like he's available, but Harris is a possibility IMO.

Hope he doesn't move Wifi

 

[Joseph Nathan]

If the Preds were interested, would you trade Primeau, Jets 1st, Barron, for Askarov?

Askarov has more potential to most fans but when I look at their AHL numbers, it's closer than I would imagined. Very curious to see who's better when we look back 5 years from now. What is the gap between these two at the NHL level.

3 year age gap so it's reasonable to assume Askarov is on a better pace in development.



You won't know until you try it for more than 10 games.

Preds wouldn’t take this! They were only open last year to trading him for the 5th overall in the 1st round last year. This is a nothing offer. Come on now

 

[Runner77]

Many on this board wrote Slaf off as a bad pick before Xmas...

The mob opinion isn't a great assessment source.

I don’t recall the bashing of Slaf having ever been a majority thing. There were a handful of opinion leaders and this past season sent them all off into the sunset.

 

[calder candidate]

I don' think we or Habs have seen enough of them to make any determination. It wasn't up to them to beat out bottom 6 Hab players who Habs were also evaluating like Ylonen and RHP.

This camp is when I can see Habs looking to see if they can take the next step along with several other prospects to see if they can make the big club. There will hopefully be some spots available with players like Ylonen, RHP etc. showing they couldn't cut it in the NHL. Now it's the youngsters time to shine so I'm not writing them off at all just yet. Heinemann in particular has the tools to be an effective bottom 6 player.

I not writing them off but Heineman is the only one that has a bottom 6 profile but I don’t think he is special player… Yolonen, RHP and Farrell these aren’t ideal bottom 6 players and might not even be legit NHLer on a contending team… we are talking about acquiring a 24yo, not some over the hill vet… he is brought in to compete for the job may the best man win. None of these guy have shown enough to think that this will a organizational strength, if they can’t beat out Pospisil maybe it is better off we don’t rely on them and they can keep developing in the AHL.

 

[sampollock]

I don’t recall the bashing of Slaf having ever been a majority thing. There were a handful of opinion leaders and this past season sent them all off into the sunset.

agreed