HF Habs: Trade Proposal Thread #87: 2024 Season Finale

[Scriptor]

Nope. Way too much added on our side.

PLD at 7.5 for Gally is a starting point that the Kings would need to add to, not vice versa.

His play this year, in a great situation, further reinforced the impression that he isn't serious or competitive enough to bring the kind of consistency to his game that his contract requires... And the risk of physical decline making even less impactful than he is now (perhaps leading to a Rene Bourque esque early exit from the league) is considerable.

What a farcical take without any context.

PLD's drop in TOI, alone, accounts for his drop in point production.

I'd say odds are he would return to a two-way point production between 60 and 70 points with a primary role on any team next season, with 18-19 minutes in TOI and a regular physical presence on the PP.

Is that worth his current salary? Maybe not quite, yet, but he'd also have remaining upside...

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

Interviewing a player is so far from being plugged into the inner workings of the GM and President of Operations that I’m at a loss for the appropriate simile to use to describe the gap.

I suspect most people kind of look at Grant in a similar manner anytime he starts asking questions or making points. He’s as sharp as a marble.

Mock him all you want but he is personal friends with Bob McKenzie and that gets him more draft insight than almost everyone

 

[Garry Valk]

Mock him all you want but he is personal friends with Bob McKenzie and that gets him more draft insight than almost everyone

Grant’s a smart dude. I buy his guides every year. He’s usually bang on.

 

[Miller Time]

Some are saying Barron’s a low IQ guy. If that’s correct, you can’t upgrade a player’s IQ, that part of him stays what it is.

That's a very poor assessment of his performance thus far.... Probably the same posters that thought Slaf's early "difficulty" was a result of poor hockey IQ

It's evident some posters don't quite understand the role emotions play in athlete performance, and confuse normal learning curve nerves (& the inconsistency and poor decisions that come from that) with "low IQ".


If anything, Barron's hockey IQ and ability to read the game is & has been one of his biggest assets as an athlete...

Some quotes from his draft profile:

“At almost 6-foot-3 and with great mobility and smarts"

"Barron can make a smart first pass to start the transition... He sees the ice well and makes good decisions with the puck."

"He is a high-IQ player who always seems to make the right decision with the puck."

He didn't forget or regress those attributes in the last 4 years, there's just a lot of noise getting in the way of him comfortably, consistently & confidently leveraging them...

What a farcical take.

Let's revisit that in 4 years, sha'll we.

 

[VirginiaMtlExpat]

What a farcical take without any context.

PLD's drop in TOI, alone, accounts for his drop in point production.

I'd say odds are he would return to a two-way point production between 60 and 70 points with a primary role on any team next season, with 18-19 minutes in TOI and a regular physical presence on the PP.

Is that worth his current salary? Maybe not quite, yet, but he'd also have remaining upside...

Depends on how poisonous the situation in LA is, after (and assuming) a first-round exit. PLD's contract is more boat anchor-like than Gally's, if the former is still coasting at that salary, which is saying a lot. So much hinges on Hughes' persuasion, since after all he got Monahan and a first for nothing, then a first for Monahan. He's not done picking GMs' pockets, I believe.

 

[Beendair Donedat]

Mock him all you want but he is personal friends with Bob McKenzie and that gets him more draft insight than almost everyone

I don’t think you want to go down the road about pulling Grant’s hot takes on social media. Because it won’t end well for anyone suggesting he is some kind of savant with insight.

I honestly don’t care who Grant is friends with, hockey is a pretty small world. You don’t have to point out guys he’s associated with before, I’ve read his own posts on this site, I’ve read his social media stuff. He’s not an intelligent man, and I don’t regard his hockey insights as anything special above the average layman.

He’s not within three area codes of Hughes in the IQ department and has zero knowledge of the inner workings of upper management.

 

[Scriptor]

That's a very poor assessment of his performance thus far.... Probably the same posters that thought Slaf's early "difficulty" was a result of poor hockey IQ

It's evident some posters don't quite understand the role emotions play in athlete performance, and confuse normal learning curve nerves (& the inconsistency and poor decisions that come from that) with "low IQ".


If anything, Barron's hockey IQ and ability to read the game is & has been one of his biggest assets as an athlete...

Some quotes from his draft profile:

“At almost 6-foot-3 and with great mobility and smarts"

"Barron can make a smart first pass to start the transition... He sees the ice well and makes good decisions with the puck."

"He is a high-IQ player who always seems to make the right decision with the puck."

He didn't forget or regress those attributes in the last 4 years, there's just a lot of noise getting in the way of him comfortably, consistently & confidently leveraging them...


Let's revisit that in 4 years, sha'll we.

If PLD is given the same TOI and deployed the same way over the next 4 years, you'll be right, but it won't account for what might or should have been.

If I were Hughes, I'd definitely inquire into any buyer's remorse from the Kings to see if a favourable deal could be struck to repatriate Dubois to Canada.

Any deal that brings him here at 7M or less would be interesting since we would place Dubois in a situation to rebound favourably in a top-6 role with his physical presence on the PP.

While I'd play him on the wing with Dach at C, Dubois' presence in the lineup would provide valuable insurance in case of injuries at C.

I'd definitely consider icing a line of Dubois - Dach - Roy.

Depends on how poisonous the situation in LA is, after (and assuming) a first-round exit. PLD's contract is more boat anchor-like than Gally's, if the former is still coasting at that salary, which is saying a lot. So much hinges on Hughes' persuasion, since after all he got Monahan and a first for nothing, then a first for Monahan. He's not done picking GMs' pockets, I believe.

With that viewpoint, maybe.

 

[Runner77]

That's a very poor assessment of his performance thus far.... Probably the same posters that thought Slaf's early "difficulty" was a result of poor hockey IQ

It's evident some posters don't quite understand the role emotions play in athlete performance, and confuse normal learning curve nerves (& the inconsistency and poor decisions that come from that) with "low IQ".


If anything, Barron's hockey IQ and ability to read the game is & has been one of his biggest assets as an athlete...

Some quotes from his draft profile:

“At almost 6-foot-3 and with great mobility and smarts"

"Barron can make a smart first pass to start the transition... He sees the ice well and makes good decisions with the puck."

"He is a high-IQ player who always seems to make the right decision with the puck."

He didn't forget or regress those attributes in the last 4 years, there's just a lot of noise getting in the way of him comfortably, consistently & confidently leveraging them...


Let's revisit that in 4 years, sha'll we.

4 years? Will he still be a Hab by then? IQ or not, some D will have to go.

 

[Miller Time]

If PLD is given the same TOI and deployed the same way over the next 4 years, you'll be right, but it won't account for what might or should have been.

He was over 17min /night 10x in the first 20 games of the season... 2x in the last 20.

His TOI is a direct result of his poor play, not the cause of it.

He's played like a bottom 6 player on a team that tried & needed him to be a top line player.

Only he is to blame for not playing as well as he "should"...

If I were Hughes, I'd definitely inquire into any buyer's remorse from the Kings to see if a favourable deal could be struck to repatriate Dubois to Canada.

No need to inquire. The buyer's remorse is obvious and reflected in the TOI

Any deal that brings him here at 7M or less would be interesting since we would place Dubois in a situation to rebound favourably in a top-6 role with his physical presence on the PP.

He had similar hits/game as the physically imposing Tanner Pearson & Jesse Ylonen...

You'd think after enduring the futility of Josh Anderson's "physical presence on the PP", the idea of a big guy that skates fast = physical presence of any value would be laid to rest in this fan base

Josh had double the amount of hits/game, fyi

4 years? Will he still be a Hab by then? IQ or not, some D will have to go.

? I was referring to 4 years since his draft.

4 years from now he'll either be a firmly established NHL regular, or tearing it up in Europe somewhere.

For now, he remains a 22 year old who is one of the top producing NHL dmen from his draft class... Far too early to write him off.

 

[Canadiens98]

Why am I still seeing Dubois being talked about here?

Guys, we dodged a bullet !

 

[Whalers Fan]

Why? To create more unused cap space or to use that on a over the hill 30+ UFA? Makes no sense.

Gallagher or Anderson (or both) for Dubois makes more sense. Still might have an anchor contract but I do feel Dubois rebounds with MSL and the Habs young core. Unless we have plans to play him 3rd or 4th line (like the Kings) and with less talent to work with.

The elephant in the room here is not noticing how Dubois was utilized by the Kings. Even on the Jets, Dubois was a pt/game player with Connor but not so much when they moved him down. He's clearly not the type to lead a line by himself so management is dumb to try it and expect different results.

I think the question to ask is why did PLD get moved down in the lineup with multiple teams? Was it because of his lack of effort? The guy has failed now with three different teams. That's too much of a red flag for me.

The Habs are finally down to just two boat anchor contracts in Gallagher and Anderson. Adding seven years of another just doesn't seem wise in order to get rid of one of those shorter term anchors, when there are other options for each of them. Gallagher was fine in the 2nd half of last season, so he should be okay (if overpaid) in a bottom 6 role for at least next season -- and maybe two more. That gets him to a point where a buyout becomes an option. As for Anderson, if a buyer cannot be found and he doesn't improve his play, he could be buried in the AHL to free up an NHL roster spot when it is needed, and save a little on the salary cap until a buyout makes sense. It's not ideal, but better than taking on 7 years of PLD, IMO.

 

[nhlfan9191]

If PLD is given the same TOI and deployed the same way over the next 4 years, you'll be right, but it won't account for what might or should have been.

If I were Hughes, I'd definitely inquire into any buyer's remorse from the Kings to see if a favourable deal could be struck to repatriate Dubois to Canada.

Any deal that brings him here at 7M or less would be interesting since we would place Dubois in a situation to rebound favourably in a top-6 role with his physical presence on the PP.

While I'd play him on the wing with Dach at C, Dubois' presence in the lineup would provide valuable insurance in case of injuries at C.

I'd definitely consider icing a line of Dubois - Dach - Roy.


With that viewpoint, maybe.

Stop it. For all the reasons people tried to explain to you in the two years that bum was linked to us, we are not touching that snowflake with a ten foot pole. This is the third team Dubois’s gone too and stirred sh** up on and he’s only 26. We have a good locker room atmosphere right now which is important during a rebuild, they’re not even going to consider adding an over paid prima-donna to mess that up. Montreal media would eat him alive and spit him out.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

 

[Habs Halifax]

I think the question to ask is why did PLD get moved down in the lineup with multiple teams? Was it because of his lack of effort? The guy has failed now with three different teams. That's too much of a red flag for me.

The Habs are finally down to just two boat anchor contracts in Gallagher and Anderson. Adding seven years of another just doesn't seem wise in order to get rid of one of those shorter term anchors, when there are other options for each of them. Gallagher was fine in the 2nd half of last season, so he should be okay (if overpaid) in a bottom 6 role for at least next season -- and maybe two more. That gets him to a point where a buyout becomes an option. As for Anderson, if a buyer cannot be found and he doesn't improve his play, he could be buried in the AHL to free up an NHL roster spot when it is needed, and save a little on the salary cap until a buyout makes sense. It's not ideal, but better than taking on 7 years of PLD, IMO.

It comes down to how you want to evaluate the risks for each player. Dubois was not moved down the line-up that much with multiple teams. It's a different circumstance with each of the Blue Jackets, Jets, and Kings.

* With the Blue Jackets, it got sour once he demanded a trade. Prior to that, he was performing very well. Remember, Torts was his coach when he wanted out. Torts probably took it personal that he wanted out.

* With the Jets, he was always in their top 6. He performed well when playing with talent. Wasn't horrible when he didn't play with Connor either. Just not a pt/game player when he did.

* With the Kings, they signed him for a big deal and paid a big price to get him when their center depth was already strong. I thought they might play him on wing but they decided to play him 3C with not so much talent.

Gallagher at $6.5M for 3 years:
* Buy him out at some point
* Trade him at a later date and might have to pay a future
* Just let the 3 years pass by and he expires like Drouin

Anderson at $5.5M for 3 years:
* Buy him out at some point
* Trade him at a later date and might have to pay a future.... if he doesn't rebound.
* Just let the 3 years pass by and he expires like Drouin

Dubois at $7M or $7.5M for 7 years (I would not do this deal unless there was retention where he is below Suzuki)
* Don't trade for him and deal with Gallagher/Anderson for 3 more years
or
* Trade for him and trust that MSL and our young core gets him going and motivated. He's still a young player. We end up adding a top 2C who can also play wing and at $7M or $7.5M in a growing cap to come (call me crazy but ends up a value contract). Opportunity capitalization on a player that has wanted to play for Montreal since he asked out of Columbus but other teams kept intervening.

Excuses/context can be made for each player's trend and how they are overpaid. The main risks here are the extra 4 years from Dubois at age 29-32. What version of Dubois do we get.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Nope. Way too much added on our side.

PLD at 7.5 for Gally is a starting point that the Kings would need to add to, not vice versa.

His play this year, in a great situation, further reinforced the impression that he isn't serious or competitive enough to bring the kind of consistency to his game that his contract requires... And the risk of physical decline making even less impactful than he is now (perhaps leading to a Rene Bourque esque early exit from the league) is considerable.

Not sure how the package would look like beyond Gallagher/Dubois. If there is interest, I'm sure the package can be tweaked. The part I would demand would be retention on Dubois so he makes less than Suzuki. If the Kings say no to Retention down to $7M-$7.75M range, this is a deal breaker for me.

Dubois was not in a great situation this year. Going to a team with strong depth at center and he plays 3C with limited talent? His situation with the Jets was way better bud.

 

[TheBuriedHab]

I don't want anything to do with Dubois. Even as a dump, his attitude is just toxic. Stay away.

Apparently Boston had a deal in place with LA, Dubois for Ullmark at the deadline but Ullmark didn't wave his ntc.

They can try to revisit that in the offseason. It beats anything we would be willing to give up.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Both make no sense.

Doesn't make sense to pay a 1st to create unused cap space, i agree.

But you're including him in a trade with LA and you're still paying to get rid of him in a way, this time by taking on a higher cap hit for the last 4 years of Dubois' contract.
Like i said before, it doesn't make sense for LA either, unless they go in full rebuild mode. They want to create cap space in the short term to add a good goalie, not 3 years for now.
Getting crippled with Gallagher's contract is making them worse on the short term and they save only 1M of cap space.

Maybe sending them Price's contract instead makes more sense. LA is probably spending to the cap anyway so Price on LTIR would't impact them nearly as much as Gallagher's contract. Of course, LA would still have to retain 2.5-3M instead of 1M.

Dubois was at a 0.5 PPG pace in his first year in WIN, same as this year, and followed that with 60 and 63 points seasons, so he proved he can turn it around.
But he's still a big risk, even at 5.5-6M.

That's assuming Dubois is just a 3C bum now. Which I don't assume he is. Many of you see problems, I see opportunity.

 

[waitin425]

That's assuming Dubois is just a 3C bum now. Which I don't assume he is. Many of you see problems, I see opportunity.

I love your takes for the most part......but you are on an island here.

It comes down to how much you like to gamble. Any deal is a gamble. But, all the evidence points to Dubois being a losing hand. Could you win it? Sure, but the odds on this one are slim.

No thanks. Not with our current rebuild.

We dodged that bullet as others have said.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I love your takes for the most part......but you are on an island here.

It comes down to how much you like to gamble. Any deal is a gamble. But, all the evidence points to Dubois being a losing hand. Could you win it? Sure, but the odds on this one are slim.

No thanks. Not with our current rebuild.

We dodged that bullet as others have said.

I understand how it looks. Bookmark it. Regardless of where Dubois is, lets see how his next 7 years plays out.

If he is stuck with the Kings and stuck on the 3rd line. I don't see much changes. I think he has wanted to play with the Habs since he asked out of Columbus and Jets/Kings intervened. Jets managed him in the line-up much better than what the Kings did this past season.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Some are saying Barron’s a low IQ guy. If that’s correct, you can’t upgrade a player’s IQ, that part of him stays what it is.

I don't think Barron's issue is his IQ. When he's playing well, he's very good and makes the right plays and covers. When he's off, he's just off.

I think it's more of a confidence or consistency thing with him. He needs to learn those skills to be a better player. When I think of low IQ, I think of Beaulieu who keeps making the same mistakes over and over again. Something I haven't seen Barron doing.

 

[Miller Time]

Not sure how the package would look like beyond Gallagher/Dubois. If there is interest, I'm sure the package can be tweaked. The part I would demand would be retention on Dubois so he makes less than Suzuki. If the Kings say no to Retention down to $7M-$7.75M range, this is a deal breaker for me.

Dubois was not in a great situation this year. Going to a team with strong depth at center and he plays 3C with limited talent? His situation with the Jets was way better bud.

Dubois regressed because of his play, which led to reduced usage throughout the year, not the other way around.

Going to a team that just invested 68M$ in him & had more scoring depth than his previous teams, was a better situation, not a worse one, bud.

 

[Habs Icing]

Barron will be lost to waivers if sent down.

This is what I would do if no one is traded:

Matherson-Guhle
Xhekaj or Struble/Savard
Harris/Kovacevic/Barron are 5-6-7

Laval starts the season with Mailloux, Reinbacher, Hutson and the loser of the Xhekaj/Struble battle at camp.

You have 8 - not 7 - starting on defence.

 

[waitin425]

Where we start the season and where we finish are going to be two different stories.

At the start I see only one of Hutson/Mailloux/Reinbacher playing in the show.

By the end of the season I want all three to have made the jump.

This off season we should be targetting Necas/Zegras/Stamkos in that order.

With lottery luck we win Macklin.

I will not be bored this off-season. Two much to fantasize about.

 

[nhlfan9191]

I don't think Barron's issue is his IQ. When he's playing well, he's very good and makes the right plays and covers. When he's off, he's just off.

I think it's more of a confidence or consistency thing with him. He needs to learn those skills to be a better player. When I think of low IQ, I think of Beaulieu who keeps making the same mistakes over and over again. Something I haven't seen Barron doing.

Barron’s eventually going to get pushed out if he doesn’t round out his game quickly. We already have prospects that can hypothically be offence first D. We need more complete defenseman and I don’t see any signs of him being that.

 

[Habs Icing]

Joe Sakic knows what he's doing. We lost that trade but learn from it and move on. If he calls you don't call back.

How about Newhook? Did he know what he was doing with Newhook?