Confirmed with Link: Trade! Petersen & Walker & Grans and a 2024 2nd to Flyers : Kings 30% retention on Provorov and get Connauton and Hodgson

[Schmooley]

Love how Grans is shit on by the Blake supporters while ignoring that it's another failed draft pick by him.

"He has no path here". Guy was close to a first round pick only two drafts ago. f***ing trade him after drafting Clarke then or while Durzi and Spence are killing it during 2022 and it's obvious there is a RHD logjam.

Its another guy they brought to the AHL too early.

 

[kingsfan28]

Yes, correct. But the penalty thing has been greatly exaggerated. After he got traded to Philly he became a very effective player again.

He just gave up on LA. Just like he did in NYR. He'll probably do the same thing after awhile in Philly. Not sure what his issue is, but there's a pattern developing.

Disagree on the penalty thing. He literally got 14 min in pims for skating into a scrum and calling someone a f-ing p---y , with the ref watching him the entire time just waiting to call him for being stupid. Remember the biting thing? .Last season he took 10 penalties in the first 14 games, including 7 in the first 8.

As for Philly, looked good his first 10 games then went back to being the same guy he was here.

 

[kingsfan28]

Love how Grans is shit on by the Blake supporters while ignoring that it's another failed draft pick by him.

"He has no path here". Guy was close to a first round pick only two drafts ago. f***ing trade him after drafting Clarke then or while Durzi and Spence are killing it during 2022 and it's obvious there is a RHD logjam.

How is it a failed draft pick? Picks are assets, nothing more, used to improve your team. He was probably the BPA on their list or they might've been looking at a dman at that spot and took him. 9 points in 59 games in the AHL doesn't exactly scream top 4. Where does he fit in the big picture, with Clarke,Spence, abd Durzi ahead of him. Only one guy taken after him has played more than 20 games.

 

[King'sPawn]

How is it a failed draft pick? Picks are assets, nothing more, used to improve your team. He was probably the BPA on their list or they might've been looking at a dman at that spot and took him. 9 points in 59 games in the AHL doesn't exactly scream top 4. Where does he fit in the big picture, with Clarke,Spence, abd Durzi ahead of him. Only one guy taken after him has played more than 20 games.

If your second round pick depreciates to the point that it's a low-value throw in, then there's a problem with how that pick was handled.

It's like if Byfield was traded for a 5th. Would you still say it wasn't a failed pick, because the Kings "acquired an asset"?

 

[Schmooley]

If your second round pick depreciates to the point that it's a low-value throw in, then there's a problem with how that pick was handled.

It's like if Byfield was traded for a 5th. Would you still say it wasn't a failed pick, because the Kings "acquired an asset"?

There is no point talking to him. He goes on about Lombardi not being good just got lucky twice but Blake is a genius he put together a cup team its not his fault they didnt win a series theres nothing he could.

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

If your second round pick depreciates to the point that it's a low-value throw in, then there's a problem with how that pick was handled.

It's like if Byfield was traded for a 5th. Would you still say it wasn't a failed pick, because the Kings "acquired an asset"?

I'm not sure Grans was a low-value throw-in. The Kings dumped $7 million in cap space for multiple years. Something like that is usually pretty expensive. Grans plus a 2024 2nd is what it cost the Kings to dump those contracts.

 

[kingsfan28]

I'm not sure Grans was a low-value throw-in. The Kings dumped $7 million in cap space for multiple years. Something like that is usually pretty expensive. Grans plus a 2024 2nd is what it cost the Kings to dump those contracts.

Exactly. Everyone knew we weren't getting rid of that contract without a solid price attached. For all we know the Flyers wanted Grans as part of the deal, because he was a high 2nd rnd pick. From our point of view, he was 7th on the rhd depth chart and was one of the many expendable players at that position. Not going to lose any sleep over Grans.

 

[Statto]

i'm not trying to be combative but if we're going all in then it makes their past moves even more nonsensical

bailing on Eichel
Drafting Byfield over Stutzle--if you're trying to win now
not trading for an LHD or star goalie earlier
Not trading further prospects and picks before they started losing value-running into waiver eligibility, hoarding players they aren't going to play

all while Kopitar and Doughty were younger

again it comes back to a lack of long-term vision--it's year to year 'we are going for it,' 'we are rebuilding.'

I know the response will--and maybe should--be "well what can blake do then? Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't," but that's kind of my point. He's painted himself into a convoluted mess that is neither win-now NOR win-later and just halfassing both. So that's why I'm worried.

This is a key one for me.

I still take Byfield as I still think he has the higher ceiling as a player, even if he doesn’t score as many points as TS. However if they were working towards this window they are targeting the drafting TS makes more sense as he was always more ready and Byfield was going to have a longer development curve.

Eichel… not going to have a go at anyone based on internet rumours, hit and miss ‘sources’ and zero idea of what any sort of package MIGHT have looked like.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Oh cool, we can get back to comparisons.

By the end of Lombardi's 6th season, he won 4 playoff series and lost 2. Blake has won 0 playoff series and lost 3 in the same span.

And he has the same scouts and personnel for player development. He had John Stevens to start, Bill Ranford... on the ice he still had Quick, Kopitar, Doughty, Brown, Carter, Muzzin, Martinez from the cup-core.

So he had a lot of the same tools. We established he failed to identify the shortcomings of the team. He only had a two-year full-committed rebuild, which seems rushed to me, and is going for it again. Two seasons after going for it again, he's had a better regular season, but has yet to compile a group to win when it matters.

So, how much time does he have to keep trying to win now before his effectiveness is questioned? How many times does he get to change agendas without winning a playoff series?

The bold there....are you describing Lombardi or Blake? That statement kinda fits both

 

[KingsFan7824]

I think the issue people have with it is some folks are talking about it like getting out of Cal's contract was taking care of a previous GM's mistake.

And frankly, they could have buried him one more year and bought him out next year without giving up further assets if they were that desperate to get rid of him.

If anyone wants to say it's genius because it bought him space now--again, that's an issue of his own making. even if Cal were playing well--he'd have to find some money to simply run back last year's one-and-done roster.

I'm sorry but while in a vacuum it's a 'good' deal we aren't working in a vacuum here. This shit is starting to really add up. And if some will recall I'd been accused for a long time of being a patient homer so hopefully that means something coming from me.

I don't get how people have latched onto the it's his own mess thing. I do get it, because people don't like Blake, but I don't get it. DL knew he'd have Muzzin to replace what Hickey was supposed to be, so that doesn't count as DL fixing his own mess. Or it does count, but DL was a genius, so it's ok. Or trading for old man Smyth. DL must've known Richards would soon be available, and by getting Smyth, he buys time, and he knew he'd be able to pawn him off back to Edmonton fir a cheap 4th liner, because DL was brilliant. He knew Carter would be available from Columbus to save his job, after both Penner and Gagne crapped the offensive bed for various reasons. He knew Murray wasn't the right coach, and knew he had his buddy up on an Alberta farm that would save his job.

...or the GM could learn how to manage the salary cap properly, and when to start a rebuild.

There are only three things you want to be as an organization in the NHL today:

1. A contender
2. A young up and coming team
3. A team that is tearing it down to start a rebuild

The Kings organization is none of these. You have to do #3 before you can get to the higher levels of achievement.

It's simple either "Get busy livin', or get busy dyin'."

Right now the Kings are happy sitting in their cell at Shawshank.

And you still live in the fantasy world where every team starts a full rebuild at the drop of a hat. Unfortunately, and yes, largely because of the cap, that's not how things tend to go. If all the Kings want is to get a little bit of playoff money from suckers, then that's their choice.

Yes but the alternative (which is what Blake actually did) was overpaying and using up valuable cap space on an unnecessary piece -- that's MUCH worse management.

BTW: i'd have traded Moore during the season (or before) and gotten value for the asset before losing him. But it was YOU who made the point that the team was in a playoff run and trading Moore wasn't an option. Sometimes i think you don't realize what you say.

Because I'm looking at it from the Kings pov. It's very unlikely they would've traded an unsigned Moore in the last 12 months, unless they were out of the 2023 playoff race at the deadline, so why dwell on a possibility which hsd very low probability? They like him, they've given him an important role, he's helped them make the playoffs.

Anyone giving Moore $21M this July after his season would be a thunderous idiot. He’d be lucky to get $8M. Somehow, Blake decides he’s going to be the first GM in LA history to pay a home town premium. And the guy is from Ventura County.

Don't worry about how he played before getting hurt, which was also just after he re-signed.

The answer to the Kopitar situation is quite easy. Next season you trade him and retain some of his cap hit. Hopefully, he is having a good season and looks attractive to an actual contender.

Blake may not have the stones for a move like this though.

If the Kings are in the playoffs, and Kopitar isn't one of the worst centers in the league, being outplayed by a career minor leaguer, he's not being traded. There's no GM, past, present, or future, that would trade Kopitar outside of the worst case scenario in 23-24.

 

[King'sPawn]

I'm not sure Grans was a low-value throw-in. The Kings dumped $7 million in cap space for multiple years. Something like that is usually pretty expensive. Grans plus a 2024 2nd is what it cost the Kings to dump those contracts.

Exactly. Everyone knew we weren't getting rid of that contract without a solid price attached. For all we know the Flyers wanted Grans as part of the deal, because he was a high 2nd rnd pick. From our point of view, he was 7th on the rhd depth chart and was one of the many expendable players at that position. Not going to lose any sleep over Grans.

Odd. You said "picks are assets, nothing more." Then proceeded to point out how he wasn't that great in the AHL anyway.

The bold there....are you describing Lombardi or Blake? That statement kinda fits both

You know... you're right. Lombardi was fired as a result of going for it a second time and failing two seasons in a row. Sounds like it's Blake's time too.

 

[KINGS17]

The bold there....are you describing Lombardi or Blake? That statement kinda fits both

Blake can hear you, but Lombardi can't because he has his two Stanley Cups in this ears.

Never thought that Patrick Roy quote would come in handy again.

There is a reason I just blow right by your posts without really reading them, but this one was so short(bus) that I took the time to respond.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Odd. You said "picks are assets, nothing more." Then proceeded to point out how he wasn't that great in the AHL anyway.


You know... you're right. Lombardi was fired as a result of going for it a second time and failing two seasons in a row. Sounds like it's Blake's time too.

Well know, Lombardi was fired because he refused to get rid of Sutter, but don't let facts get in the way of a good old fashioned irrational hatred.

Blake can hear you, but Lombardi can't because he has his two Stanley Cups in this ears.

Never thought that Patrick Roy quote would come in handy again.

There is a reason I just blow right by your posts without really reading them, but this one was so short(bus) that I took the time to respond.

Says the guy who thinks decision made on a PS video game should be relevant to actual pro sports,

Same guy who thinks that teams trade star players after winning championships....despite providing no examples of it....amazing how that works.

 

[King'sPawn]

Well know, Lombardi was fired because he refused to get rid of Sutter, but don't let facts get in the way of a good old fashioned irrational hatred.

You have a link to confirm these facts I'm sure, right?

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

You have a link to confirm these facts I'm sure, right?

100% just as you have a link that shows Lombardi was fired for missing the playoffs after stringing together 3 WCF finals, and 2 SC's....

I mean shit, if you can throw out shit based on conjecture and opinion, is no one else allowed?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I don't get how people have latched onto the it's his own mess thing. I do get it, because people don't like Blake, but I don't get it. DL knew he'd have Muzzin to replace what Hickey was supposed to be, so that doesn't count as DL fixing his own mess. Or it does count, but DL was a genius, so it's ok. Or trading for old man Smyth. DL must've known Richards would soon be available, and by getting Smyth, he buys time, and he knew he'd be able to pawn him off back to Edmonton fir a cheap 4th liner, because DL was brilliant. He knew Carter would be available from Columbus to save his job, after both Penner and Gagne crapped the offensive bed for various reasons. He knew Murray wasn't the right coach, and knew he had his buddy up on an Alberta farm that would save his job.

"because you hate Blake" is frankly pretty f***ing lazy. I'm not one of those guys who has the pre-existing hatred for him. I was pumping his tires/pedigree/potential early on, and was advising patience.

And yes, results matter, as do process. Blake has neither right now. Did you ever have a question of what DL's vision was? Every piece of Blake's puzzle has question marks.

Every GM makes mistakes. It's about avoiding egregious ones and compounding ones. Blake is now doing both. That's how they get fired. That's how DL got fired. Blake is not a special snowflake.

 

[King'sPawn]

100% just as you have a link that shows Lombardi was fired for missing the playoffs after stringing together 3 WCF finals, and 2 SC's....

I mean shit, if you can throw out shit based on conjecture and opinion, is no one else allowed?

I didn't say I had the facts. I gave an opinion. You said "don't let facts get in the way."

So do you have your facts, or are you as bad at telling the truth as you are at discussing opinions?

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I didn't say I had the facts. I gave an opinion. You said "don't let facts get in the way."

So do you have your facts, or are you as bad at telling the truth as you are at discussing opinions?

Hard to discuss opinions when you base it on irrationalities....

You say Blake had the same tools, yet, he didn't, you say he had the same agenda, he didn't, you then say it doesn't matter 6 years is 6 years, and he's shown improvement in the past 2 years, then you say well no, because playoffs, etc,

Listen, you have your mind made up, and no one is gonna change it, that's fine....but the reality of it is, Kings are trending up, you just don't see it, what's that saying, you can lead a horse to water......

 

[KINGS17]

"because you hate Blake" is frankly pretty f***ing lazy. I'm not one of those guys who has the pre-existing hatred for him. I was pumping his tires/pedigree/potential early on, and was advising patience.

And yes, results matter, as do process. Blake has neither right now. Did you ever have a question of what DL's vision was? Every piece of Blake's puzzle has question marks.

Every GM makes mistakes. It's about avoiding egregious ones and compounding ones. Blake is now doing both. That's how they get fired. That's how DL got fired. Blake is not a special snowflake.

There is no vision or process involved in what Blake is doing as GM, and hence no criteria by which to judge his performance.

This is why you see people come in here with, "Muh 100-point season" BS.

 

[Schrute farms]

I'm not sure Grans was a low-value throw-in. The Kings dumped $7 million in cap space for multiple years. Something like that is usually pretty expensive. Grans plus a 2024 2nd is what it cost the Kings to dump those contracts.

It wasn't $7M -- you are ignoring the 30% of Prov's contract that we took on for the next two years.

Edit: In total, over two years, it's about $8.65M in cap space savings for the Kings.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

It wasn't $7M -- you are ignoring the 30% of Prov's contract that we took on for the next two years.

It was 5 million and change after everything balances out.....does anyone really think that gets done with a low 2nd a year away?

 

[Schrute farms]

Because I'm looking at it from the Kings pov. It's very unlikely they would've traded an unsigned Moore in the last 12 months, unless they were out of the 2023 playoff race at the deadline, so why dwell on a possibility which hsd very low probability? They like him, they've given him an important role, he's helped them make the playoffs.

Wow, i've never seen someone go round & round in a circle like you do. I think i understand some of the other poster frustrations they have discussing items with you. It's like a merry-go-round. In a vacuum, your post can make sense -- but combined with your round & round comments it's bizarre. Maybe you forget what you say previously; or you are devious and like to screw around on purpose. You are the one who brings a hypothetical scenario up in a response -- and then when I respond to that, you take the other position as if it's not possible lol. Why did you bring it up in the first place? So weird.

 

[Statto]

Hard to discuss opinions when you base it on irrationalities....

You say Blake had the same tools, yet, he didn't, you say he had the same agenda, he didn't, you then say it doesn't matter 6 years is 6 years, and he's shown improvement in the past 2 years, then you say well no, because playoffs, etc,

Listen, you have your mind made up, and no one is gonna change it, that's fine....but the reality of it is, Kings are trending up, you just don't see it, what's that saying, you can lead a horse to water......

I think it’s fair to say that one ice things have trended up… however there continues to be a bunch of roster, prospect and cap issues that need to be addressed before they blow up in his (Blake’s) face.

I felt (and wrote somewhere) that Blake will need to be aggressive and creative this summer to bring things together. He’s started well in that vein but he needs to do more to do that. If he gets the D balance, adds grit and a decent N/M then he may yet be vindicated. However it’s a tough ask at this point as he’s been too conservative IMO. Btw, I don’t consider vindication to be a cup but he
does need a deep run.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I think it’s fair to say that one ice things have trended up… however there continues to be a bunch of roster, prospect and cap issues that need to be addressed before they blow up in his (Blake’s) face.

I felt (and wrote somewhere) that Blake will need to be aggressive and creative this summer to bring things together. He’s started well in that vein but he needs to do more to do that. If he gets the D balance, adds grit and a decent N/M then he may yet be vindicated. However it’s a tough ask at this point as he’s been too conservative IMO. Btw, I don’t consider vindication to be a cup but he
does need a deep run.

100%, but thats like getting pissed off with the chef while you are having bread.....makes no sense,

There's still a shit ton of work to be done.......he needs a netminder, I don't know if Korpisalo is it, sign him to a 2 year deal but don't marry yourself to him ala Peterson.....

 

[King'sPawn]

Hard to discuss opinions when you base it on irrationalities....

It's okay. I have hope you'll grow up to be a rational person and look forward to you discussing your opinions at that time.

You say Blake had the same tools, yet, he didn't, you say he had the same agenda, he didn't, you then say it doesn't matter 6 years is 6 years, and he's shown improvement in the past 2 years, then you say well no, because playoffs, etc,

He did have the same tools when he came in, minus Sutter. Considering he came in right after Lombardi left.

I never said Blake had the same agenda as Lombardi when both started. Lombardi WAS tryingbto "win now" at the end of his tenure. Blake was trying to "win now" when he came in. So in that sense, they were aligned. But either way, your facts are, as usual, askew.

Listen, you have your mind made up, and no one is gonna change it, that's fine....but the reality of it is, Kings are trending up, you just don't see it, what's that saying, you can lead a horse to water......

And this concludes the discussion, because we've been talking about Blake doing an average at best job. In four seasons he went in with the mindset to "win now", he has 5 playoff games won.

And while speaking of that... last year, 3 playoff wins. This year, 2 playoff wins. Interesting way to "trend up."

But the fact is I think Blake is an average GM. I don't hate him. But the times he met his agenda was when he amassed picks by running a bad team. He's better with short-term thinking. But I think the team needs a better GM who can think more long-term and execute a rebuild effectively.

The reason why I say he hasn't? Because he's not building through the youth he acquired. He dedicated 2 years to getting high picks (2019 was a change of heart midseason), but he's not leaning on any of the youth he acquired. The team is still depending very largely on vets from the DT and DL era. So, it's arguable if he can even do a rebuild.

I just think it's time to move on. You can call that irrational all you want, but it's "different agendas." I want a GM whose ass I can kiss. You want to keep the GM whose ass you're kissing.