Proposal: Trade for Quick??

[GoldiFox]

Problem is it's hard to get good value when other teams know they have you by the balls :/

I don't think you understand what that concept means. Having a situation "by the balls" means one party has significant leverage over the other. Such as Nylander having Toronto by the balls resulting in the team scrambling at the last second to offer him exactly what Marc Savard said he would sign for a week before the contract deadline.

No one team has leverage over Carolina simply because Carolina has an excess top-4 RHD. Because there are 31 teams in the league. All teams looks to make moves at varying points of the seasons for varying reasons. Top-4 RHD are relatively rare commodities in the NHL. Given that guys like Pesce and Faulk were rumored as the best offers that Toronto received for Nylander, it is easy to speculate that they will again be the best offered pieces for the next sticky team/contract situation. The Canes have plenty of time to work it out.

 

[Kamiccolo]

I don't think you understand what that concept means. Having a situation "by the balls" means one party has significant leverage over the other. Such as Nylander having Toronto by the balls resulting in the team scrambling at the last second to offer him exactly what Marc Savard said he would sign for a week before the contract deadline.

No one team has leverage over Carolina simply because Carolina has an excess top-4 RHD. Because there are 31 teams in the league. All teams looks to make moves at varying points of the seasons for varying reasons. Top-4 RHD are relatively rare commodities in the NHL. Given that guys like Pesce and Faulk were rumored as the best offers that Toronto received for Nylander, it is easy to speculate that they will again be the best offered pieces for the next sticky team/contract situation. The Canes have plenty of time to work it out.

Nah I do understand.. In case you haven't noticed my other team have needed defense for a while and teams are waiting them out because they know they are desperate. However I am not about to go down this rabbit hole this has nothing to do with the Leafs or the Nylander negotiation.

Simply being a RD doesn't mean anything honestly. Adam Larsson trade completely screwed expectations because Chia is an idiot. Since that trade RD have returned nothing close to that level of return.

Karlsson got a bag of pucks

McDonagh got a mediocre forward and a bunch of meh AND they had to add on top of that.

Ian Cole got a 3rd round pick at a time he was seen as a solid #4.

Not going to keep going but the point is, no one will overpay when they know Carolina needs scoring desperately. You'll get a lot of situations LIKE Nylander where they say nah Pesce/Faulk isn't good enough we want Slavin knowing full well that won't happen.

Now consider during all of this that the guy doing the negotiating is Waddell....

They've got us "by the balls" because every team in the league knows that there are several better D on the roster and every year the playoffs slip past them the team gets more and more impatient. Look no further than that Skinner trade.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Problem is it's hard to get good value when other teams know they have you by the balls :/

They don't, though. It's not like our window is open and we're looking for that final piece. We can float along in mediocrity for years yet; we've proven it.

At some point, somebody is gonna be like "we need a good D-man stat, our D is bad/injured, our window is closing, let's just get a deal done, what do we have to trade?" and we'll get a combination of a decent forward piece and/or a few more draft pieces to play with.

 

[GoldiFox]

Nah I do understand.. In case you haven't noticed my other team have needed defense for a while and teams are waiting them out because they know they are desperate. However I am not about to go down this rabbit hole this has nothing to do with the Leafs or the Nylander negotiation.

Simply being a RD doesn't mean anything honestly. Adam Larsson trade completely screwed expectations because Chia is an idiot. Since that trade RD have returned nothing close to that level of return.

Karlsson got a bag of pucks

McDonagh got a mediocre forward and a bunch of meh AND they had to add on top of that.

Ian Cole got a 3rd round pick at a time he was seen as a solid #4.

Not going to keep going but the point is, no one will overpay when they know Carolina needs scoring desperately. You'll get a lot of situations LIKE Nylander where they say nah Pesce/Faulk isn't good enough we want Slavin knowing full well that won't happen.

Now consider during all of this that the guy doing the negotiating is Waddell....

They've got us "by the balls" because every team in the league knows that there are several better D on the roster and every year the playoffs slip past them the team gets more and more impatient. Look no further than that Skinner trade.

You make the argument that the league has Carolina "by the balls" in trade negotiations. When called out you turn it around to say "no one will overpay" for a Carolina D. Why omit the entire middle-ground of a fair hockey deal in your bad faith argument?

You say that Carolina is desperate to improve the roster because they miss the Playoffs every year. And your example of this case is them trading away a scorer for futures. Those are diametrically opposed ideas you are trying to smash together. Which is it? Are they desperate to overpay in trades for forwards or are they impatiently trying to make the Playoffs by dealing away scorers for futures?

 

[Kamiccolo]

You make the argument that the league has Carolina "by the balls" in trade negotiations. When called out you turn it around to say "no one will overpay" for a Carolina D. Why omit the entire middle-ground of a fair hockey deal in your bad faith argument?

You say that Carolina is desperate to improve the roster because they miss the Playoffs every year. And your example of this case is them trading away a scorer for futures. Those are diametrically opposed ideas you are trying to smash together. Which is it? Are they desperate to overpay in trades for forwards or are they impatiently trying to make the Playoffs by dealing away scorers for futures?

I'm just trying to be realistic.I'd love nothing more than to move someone like Faulk out and bring in a legit top line winger or Pesce for a Hall type impact forward but those types of deals just don't happen very often. And if they do, it's usually not from a GM not exactly known for being a trade wiz and an owner who reportedly wants to compete sooner than later.

I know I am a Leaf fan but I am also a Canes fan. I promise I am not trying to be one of the guys trashing the defense on the main board. In fact I never did it a single time during the entire Nylander saga BS on the mains.

The fact is, it's hard being optimistic when everytime the team takes a step forward it feels like it takes two steps back.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Timing is everything when it comes to hockey trades. Trading partners need to have the right balance of needs and strengths at the right time. Unfortunately, I think Carolina is without a dance partner at this point. Toronto was it, but Leaf management didn’t want to pull the trigger on a trade. The irony is that Dubas and co. may find themselves in a similar position not too long from now. A Pesce-base for Nylander may end up looking better and better as time goes on, but there's a good chance it won't be on the table even 7 months from now.

Anyway, you have to move on. They have to make a decision on Faulk. That decision and the timing of it may be motivated in showing Fox a clear pathway to the NHL as they attempt to sign him. We’ll see. He’s most likely returning non-elite futures if dealt. That’s just the nature of his contract term.

I’m still not convinced that Carolina must make a defense for forward trade. Long-term, I like an Aho-Teravainen-Necas-Svechnikov base. We just have to be patient as they develop. That can take time. Complimentary skill can be acquired outside of major trades.

That may not sound too appetizing. To have assembled the depth on defense to never have leveraged it for a trade for a forward is a failure in strategy. However, that's just how the cookie crumbles sometimes.

 

[Stickpucker]

Um, Kovalchuk.

I would worry about his influence on Svechnikov

 

[TheBigKahuna]

Sure, I'd trade for Quick. Darling....straight up.

 

[TheBigKahuna]

Heck, I'd throw in Pu and a 3rd round pick to sweeten the pot.