GDT: Trade Deadline

Discussion in 'Calgary Flames' started by Method Man, Feb 25, 2018.

  1. Calculon

    Calculon unholy acting talent

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    Not necessarily. Flames only resisted offers on the other three, they may not have resisted on Kylington. But himself he wasn't enough to bring back a high end piece and the Flames weren't willing to include other parts to make it viable.

    Still think it'd be a terrible mistake to move Kylington so if his value really is that low in the eyes other GM's I'm won't complain. It'd be all kinds of dumb to give up on him now given how he's progressed and only gotten better each year.
     
  2. Volica

    Volica Southern AB Dandy

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    I agree Calc.
    I like that Tre was willing to listen, but didn't pull the trigger on the right package.

    In another Flames era, we'd have traded the entire farm too for a good ol' Western boy winger with some size.
     
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  3. Vali Maki Sushi

    Vali Maki Sushi Brady Tkachuk will be a bust.

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    I still remember I was stupid enough to offer Fox and Kylington for Korpisalo a year back, but what was more hilarious was that a ton of CBS fans were angry at the proposal and thought we were ripping them off LOL. "Forsberg has shown he can't play in the NHL. Korpisalo could very well take over Bobrovsky in the future!"
     
  4. Cyrano

    Cyrano 1st Line Elite Homer

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    Wrong thread
     
  5. Mobiandi

    Mobiandi Seanny Gaudreau

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    He's not infalliable but Treliving is the best thing to happen to this club in a long time
     
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  6. Body Checker

    Body Checker Registered User

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    This is debatable; treliving’s done a mediocre job up front. Hasn’t brought in much there but done a better job on defence/goalie. But need to score in this league. Look at the jets and Tampa forward lines. We’re a long ways off from that which means more middle of the pack seasons likely.
     
  7. No Draft

    No Draft Registered User

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    Really, a non playoff team with little help coming up except for maybe a couple of mid level dmen is the best thing ?
     
  8. Fig

    Fig Registered User

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    /Rant

    So...
    - Treliving shows up looking at a roster that is supposed to be joining the Connor McDavid sweepstakes. We're talking our best RW are David Jones and Brian McGrattan. The guy patches the team to the best of his capabilities of a ROOKIE GM. Ownership mandate is playoffs. We make playoffs.
    - Brian Burke's finger prints are all over Treliving's first draft and part of Treliving's second draft. Treliving shakes him off and begins doing things his way. Dougie Hamilton, Andersson, Kylington etc. prospects begin entering the cupboard.
    - Mason Raymond is bought out. Something many older fans thought nearly impossible for ownership to approve... but Mason Raymond is bought out after year ONE of his three year contract showing Treliving admits mistakes.
    - Rumor is Ken King meddles. Treliving supposedly shakes him off and signs an extension.
    - Farm team situation is a mess. Treliving supposedly cleans it up, makes it far better than what it was before to essentially no fanfare.
    - Trades with Vancouver getting pretty decent value at the time for Granlund and Baertschi. This proves no ego, and an ability to navigate things like "inter-conference premiums" without breaking a sweat or getting ripped off. Yeah, yeah, Jim Benning... I guess.
    - Makes a killing on trades early in his tenure, then overpays on some minor deals in recent time. Hamonic, Lazar and Smith were/are considered bad deals by some. Dougie, Glencross, Russell and Hudler was pure robbery.
    - Fills a major hole every off season with a decent piece. Frolik, Dougie, Brouwer, Elliott, Johnson... Yeah, some of those didn't work out. But at the time, they were all considered respectable attempts to fill major holes.
    - Contracts that are envious: Brodie, Dougie, Gio (vs the ask), Gaudreau (vs the ask), Monahan, Backlund...
    - Somethings from nothing moves: Poulin, Chiasson, Prout, Lack, Forward Hamilton, Shore (both), Schlemko (sorta), Tom McCollum (major for expansion draft), Jones/Backstrom = Phillips

    But...
    - Paul Byron. Optional waived WITH Mason Raymond due to him having a horrible preseason due to recovery from prior season high ankle sprain, wrist surgery and other misc bang ups caused specifically by Hartley's style. He probably would have cleared if Montreal did not suddenly find a bizarre opportunity to acquire him by shedding a contract to acquire him (Kassian). Reportedly Treliving wanted the flexibility to send Byron down to the AHL on a sort of conditional stint to recover from his injuries and felt it was a relatively safe bet as most teams were over the contract limit. Good idea, bad result. I think Montreal was the only team that was interested in Byron at the time.
    - Troy Brouwer. MM has repeated his comments over and over. No need to rehash it, but the options that off season was abysmal.
    - Glen Gulutzan. But in all seriousness, who else was even available that we had a chance at? Timing obviously didn't work for Boudreau. IMO Gallant is just a slightly superior version of Hartley. Look at the injury numbers in Vegas. I would bet it's unsustainable. IMO firing Hartley a year early put the Flames in the position where the coach pool was shallow. This season, it is ridiculously deep options wise if GG is not considered the guy to go forward with.
    - Goalie graveyard: Hiller, Ramo, Elliott, Johnson, Ortio, Backstrom... The first 3 had high highs and back breaking lows. On paper it wasn't supposed to be as bad as it was. Hiller/Ramo failed arguably failed due to system. Treliving fixed it. Elliott and Johnson arguably succeeded AND failed irregardless of system. Treliving replaced it. Treliving was aggressive and targeted guys like Matt Murry and Bishop. Smith was our guy, but MAF wasn't too far off from what I hear as well. Both doing very good this season.
    - Still no top line RW.

    Brad Treliving has been a GM since April 28, 2014. He's done pretty damn good for a rookie. I think we could have done far worse than Tre. He's not infallible, but I honestly think he does a ton a little things right that are just as important. The comparison to both Winnipeg and Tampa are insane when you look at the top round picks those two organizations have added to their roster.

    Seriously, Brad Treliving is IMO metaphorically like a guy who has done a fantastic job renovating a dilapidated inner city house that the owner refused to knock down. The structure obviously has its problems based on the foundation it was built on (mediocrity). However, rather than consider the fact he over came the odds, many criticize him for not knocking down the damn thing to put in an infill.

    I seriously think that secretly, Treliving is sort of in a situation similar to Vancouver and Ottawa in terms of ownership meddling. Treliving has done exceptionally well all while fending off ownership. Look at the other GMs. The top ones often always have 100% ownership support. Treliving reportedly had to demand no Ken King meddling in his extension AND he was a rookie GM when he showed up.

    He's not a messiah, but he's sure as hell not mediocre.
     
  9. snipetype

    snipetype Registered User

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    For me Treliving is a great process guy/assett manager... near the top of the league in that respect.

    But his talent evaluation is poor in my opinion. The result, mediocrity.
     
  10. Method Man

    Method Man Bring the Pain Sponsor

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    When Raymond was bought out, it was actually after year #2
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2018
  11. No Draft

    No Draft Registered User

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    I agree with this. The future of the team is already on the team. There is no draft pick and very little in term of prospects (except maybe for a couple of dmen). It's going to be tough for him to improve the team moving forward for awhile.
     
  12. Flames Fanatic

    Flames Fanatic Mediocre

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    I think we're lacking top end forwards, but we've got a couple guys I can see turning into middle six players still potentially on the way. Definitely an area to address.

    I think goaltending is as deep as it can be realistically right now, and obviously stacked on the blue line (prospect wise)
     
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  13. No Draft

    No Draft Registered User

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    The goaltending is a myth...the flames haven't drafted or developed a good goalie in 30 years...Todd button wouldn't know a good goaltending prospect even if it hits him on the face
     
  14. Baxterman

    Baxterman Registered User

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    I think evaluating Treliving (and what to do with the team going forward is very difficult right now).

    Overall I think he has done a good job, like most guys there are some hits and misses. Assuming he fires GG at the end of the year I would personally keep him but that said if we miss the play-offs I think there is enough there to justify him being fired.

    I personally would prefer to keep the stability and keep Treliving in place and would wonder what a change in GM would bring in terms of benefits.

    Which brings me to the point of this teams future. I don't see a clear path towards contention. It seems we have our core in place- Gaudreau, Monahan, Gio, Hamilton, Backlund, Tkachuk, Brodie/Hamonic and yet we still need at least 1 maybe two top 6 six forwards to be a real contender. I think one of those spots can be filled by Bennett who may not be a clear top 6 guy but I think can be successful if paired with other top 6 linemates. How we get the other is where I see some trouble.

    While many like the defensive prospects I am not sure any get us the top 6 guy we need. I also don't think that we can give up more picks to add to them to get the top 6 guy.

    I don't see any of the core (outside of maybe one of the defensemen but that opens up another hole) getting moved so we kind of seem stuck with what we have and very little to improve the team.

    If we brought in a new GM I am not sure what they would do that would be all that different or better than Treliving. We are basically on this path now and I think Treliving has done enough to see it through.

    Now as I said I think if we miss and he brings back GG he should be fired on the spot. I think if we make it and he brings back GG I would support firing him as well. But I think he gets one more coaching hire and a chance to add to the core one more time before he should be fired/replaced.
     
  15. Anglesmith

    Anglesmith Skates like a deer

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    The thing is, one can write an impassioned defence about any GM. I don't think Treliving has done anything significant to be regarded with such high praise that he gets. I also think it would be silly to fire him. I think he's made mistakes, and I think he is just as aware as any of us of what those mistakes were, and I think he'll learn from them and hopefully not repeat them. He's shown the ability to get good value in trades and especially in contract signings of our own guys. As long as he stays more careful in FA, he shouldn't be able to do any serious harm.
     
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  16. Flames Fanatic

    Flames Fanatic Mediocre

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    On paper anyways. We all know it isn't played on paper though.
     
  17. djpatm

    djpatm Registered User

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    Tre's biggest mistake so far was going for a Defender instead of a forward.

    Hamonic has been fine but I don't think the team would be much worse with Stone in his place and Andersson on the bottom pairing.

    I guarantee the team would look a lot better with the level of forward you could've probably got for what they paid for Hamonic.
     
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  18. OvermanKingGainer

    OvermanKingGainer #FreeBennett #CurseofTheSpulll

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    Which wasn't exactly a bad outcome for a team that had committed to rebuilding. Eichel, McDavid, maybe Marner.

    Hudler, Byron, and Colborne were our best RW.

    That was after year two.

    This is totally grasping at straws. Byron had been a roster lock two straight years, you do not waive him because he is returning from injury. You do not waive a person to put them on a conditioning stint either - because there is literally something called a conditioning stint that does not require waivers. And finally, outside factors like Zack Kassian are not relevant to internal decisions like waiving Paul Byron. Paul Byron was, and still is, a player who would be a key piece in our forward group. It was an awful, unjustifiable action that we are still paying for to this day, three years later, because we haven't found a better bottom six forward than Paul Byron. Tre elected not to waive Joe Colborne or Brandon Bollig even though Byron was BY FAR a better ice hockey player than those two.

    More grasping. Jonathan Marchessault was available in UFA that offseason. Sceviour and Gagner and Versteeg were all options. At the upper end of the scale were guys like David Backes and Kyle Okposo. They went after Brouwer because of poor evaluation. Even if Brouwer had panned out as exactly what he was in other stops, this was the definition of mediocrity. There was only one abysmal option and his name was Troy Brouwer.
     
  19. Fig

    Fig Registered User

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    Sure. Except for the ownership mandate part.

    Sorry, natural RW/Right shot Right wing. Hudler was a winger conversion due to desperation. Colborne the same when he didn't pan out at C. Byron... I don't recall much RW play, but because of the LW logjam at that time, sure.

    My mistake. The point about buyouts not being expected due to ownership track record still stands though.

    Really? So people as close to management like Hartley was grasping at straws with these comments?

    Flames lose Byron on waivers to Habs but Raymond clears

    The coach himself talking about how injuries affected his preseason and somehow you think healthy playrse like Bollig didn't outplay him? Come on. Do I need to find the article that discusses how Byron spent several weeks on the IR in Montreal before he played his first game after being claimed on waivers?

    Look, the bloody joke is Truculence, but I think we also had cap concerns that off season. I will humor your other player suggestions though.

    Marchessault signed a 2 year 1.5 mil contract that season with Florida. Honestly, I wonder if we even had a chance on him because I am assuming he wanted to stay close to home (previously played in Tampa).

    IIRC, Sceviour signed a similar contract to Marchessault. Maybe we had a shot at him, I don't know. But I'm assuming the lower PPG and style was also a factor.

    Gagner, I don't completely know. I personally also thought he was a good option around that time, but somehow, the Yotes thought he plus picks was worth Nick Grossman and Pronger's dead weight contract. That's weird and there must be something behind the scenes everyone knows about even if Treliving was no longer in Arizona when Gagner played there. Add the lack of Truculence, and I think there's some of the answer.

    Versteeg... the version who opted to pause his NHL career in agreeing to sign a one-year deal with the SC Bern of the Swiss NLA but failed to pass the medical exam and therefore the contract was voided so he took an Edmonton Oiler PTO, Versteeg? Didn't we sign him anyways that same off season or am I mixing up the time periods? Why is he on this list?

    Backes and Okposo were obvious rejections based on salary. I think quite a few of us wanted Okposo but when we saw the contract we knew we couldn't afford it. This was the same season where we had the Gaudreau hold out and Monahan extension IIRC.


    Brouwer was supposed to be a very good middle 6 option with roughness that would make Burke's spikes prickle. He was durable as frick and was also supposed to be Sam Bennett's fricken mentor. I think he was also supposed to be a sandpaper option to lessen Ferland's requirement in that department. He had ties to our city, was relatively affordable and seemingly of decent enough quality to fill our RW hole. He had seemingly a good attitude and I can't help but wonder if somehow management thought he'd be a great Engelland clone on the RW. But we were sold a bill of goods. I thought Brouwer was supposed to be a good middle 6 option who on occasion could play on the top line for a game or two. But that's not what we got.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2018
  20. The Gnome

    The Gnome Registered User

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    I really hope Shore draws in tonight. Our bottom six is on life support and I feel as though almost anything would help at this point.
     
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  21. Cyrano

    Cyrano 1st Line Elite Homer

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    Was thinking about this the other day. Brad's unwillingness to trade Fox might mean he is pretty sure Fox is willing to sign with us, or Tre at least has no reason to believe he wouldn't. That's fantastic news, Fox is neck and neck with Valimaki in my opinion as our best prospect.
     
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