Confirmed with Link: [TOR/PIT] Frank Corrado for Eric Fehr, Steve Oleksy, 4th round pick 17

[Mess]

My point about the young defenseman is related to continuous comments in the Trade Thread that they have to target a young defender not some guy on his last legs. And a 1st. round pick MAN WTF how could you think about giving up a 1st. unless it's a guaranteed stud!

Okay, so they use a 2nd. round pick on an old 4th. liner, and it's a rental, and that's okay?

If you're willing to use a 2nd. round pick for a 4th. line rental, but your huge hole is on defense would you seriously hesitate to use a 1st. on a full time defender in a regular trade? (Obviously, you could lottery protect for a year.)

It is almost like a trade for trade sake to show "we're rewarding them!"

If a 20 game 4th. line rental is worth a 2nd., a permanent 2nd. pairing defender has got to be worth 4 times that, so anyone happy with this shouldn't have any complaints about using a 1st., 2nd., 3rd. and 4th. rounder for a top 4 defender.

But not a big deal anyway if Boyle can get 18 wheels back on the road it could be justified, but enough of the complaints about paying for the real areas of need, and that includes using 1st. round picks.

Catch 22

Leafs unexpected pleasant surprise success put them into a buyers position. Management likely expected to be sellers this TD not giving away 2nd for rental.

Shana-management always talks about "staying the course", but an accelerated positive results seems to have accelerated the development process. Now potential playoff games being a great development tool opportunity.

Lets hope the Leafs make the playoffs now or paying 2nd round pick to miss the playoffs is what past management did.

 

[ULF_55]

The Boyle trade was a reward for the hard work of the group to help push them over the finish line. Some people are saying it's better to pay Gauthier, I disagree. The Goat can now get big minutes for the Marlies while the young guys who are playing heavy minutes with the big club are given a couple solid vets to provide guidance on how to close the deal as games get tougher and tougher.

It's hard to argue that today a 4th line with Boyle and Fehr is not better than a 4th line with Gauthier and say Soshnikov. If we can get into the playoffs, I think that sense of accomplishment and experience will do wonders for the young core.

As for JVR and Bozak and their future, I think just like the younger players they are being evaluated. We've seen some ugly play from guys like Reilly, Gardiner, Bozak, and JVR in February. This seems to be a pattern with these guys, and it could be that we need to move several of them either in the summer or next year.

My personal feeling is JVR will be moved at or around the draft. Bozak will be kept on as Nylander transitions to centre next year, then dealt by the next deadline. And seeing them play this season, I don't think you can have both Reilly and Gardiner making up half of your top 4. I think one of them have to go this summer. I don't know if there is a deal to be made with a team who has some defensive defensemen looking to exchange for offensive D. I would explore that avenue.

Well, I think the Leafs should definitely get in on the Ducks/Wild issue before the x-draft.

I'm guessing two 1st. rounders along with a couple prospects could land one of the Duck's/Wild's defenders.

So that would be a permanent, young, defender with experience playing meaningful games in the playoffs.

So:

2 * 1st. rounders
1/2 prospects (Depends on which defender they can land)

for
Vantanen / Manson
Dumba / Brodin

 

[TheKingSlayer]

Well, I think the Leafs should definitely get in on the Ducks/Wild issue before the x-draft.

I'm guessing two 1st. rounders along with a couple prospects could land one of the Duck's/Wild's defenders.

So that would be a permanent, young, defender with experience playing meaningful games in the playoffs.

So:

2 * 1st. rounders
1/2 prospects (Depends on which defender they can land)

for
Vantanen / Manson
Dumba / Brodin

GTFO!! We are not doing that again.

 

[member 262271]

GTFO!! We are not doing that again.

Total Burke/Nonis flashbacks there.

 

[ULF_55]

GTFO!! We are not doing that again.

Total Burke/Nonis flashbacks there.

4th. line rental (old) = 2nd. round pick
2nd. pairing permanent (young) >>>> old 4th. line, 20 game, rental

 

[pylon17]

Boyle is not a rental, he'll be re-signed. If not, that sucks.

The only goal of the offseason is to rebuild the defense. Noone should be untouchable. We need a #1.

 

[The CyNick]

Well, I think the Leafs should definitely get in on the Ducks/Wild issue before the x-draft.

I'm guessing two 1st. rounders along with a couple prospects could land one of the Duck's/Wild's defenders.

So that would be a permanent, young, defender with experience playing meaningful games in the playoffs.

So:

2 * 1st. rounders
1/2 prospects (Depends on which defender they can land)

for
Vantanen / Manson
Dumba / Brodin

Personally, I wouldn't be in the business of trading away any of our own 1sts for a D man on the teams you listed. The league is basically set up as maybe 4-6 strong teams, about 20 middling teams, and maybe another 4-5 bad teams. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility for us to get into the playoffs this year and then see a regression next year. Look at a team like Tampa. Yeah they still might get in, but they're a good solid youngish team and they could end up with a top ten pick this year. Unless were in a Pittsburgh/Washington spot, I would hold on to those picks.

Now, if you could acquire a pick for say a guy like Bozak or JVR from a contender and use that to get a D man, I would be okay with that plan. Of course depends on the specifics. I just have a feeling we end up making a hockey trade to move offensive D for a shut down guy who is in the same age range. I could also see a team like Montreal feeling the pressure to win next year and moving Segechev for offensive help. But I have a feeling they will end up with Duchesne and Landeskog to fill that need.

 

[The CyNick]

4th. line rental (old) = 2nd. round pick
2nd. pairing permanent (young) >>>> old 4th. line, 20 game, rental

I don't think you understand how to value picks, but that's okay.

 

[Liminality]

4th. line rental (old) = 2nd. round pick
2nd. pairing permanent (young) >>>> old 4th. line, 20 game, rental

We don't have multiple 1sts like we did with the 2nds.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Catch 22

Leafs unexpected pleasant surprise success put them into a buyers position. Management likely expected to be sellers this TD not giving away 2nd for rental.

Shana-management always talks about "staying the course", but an accelerated positive results seems to have accelerated the development process. Now potential playoff games being a great development tool opportunity.

Lets hope the Leafs make the playoffs now or paying 2nd round pick to miss the playoffs is what past management did.

Personally I don't think their position in the standings should have changed anything. And that they should have "stayed the course" and sold some guys off. Now some guys will walk for nothing.
You're right, trading picks for aging vets is what the old regime did when they thought they were a playoff and competitive team. Yes playoffs are a great experience for a young team but probably not when you get your arse handed to you in the first round because of your below average D.....if they make it that is.

 

[Crysis]

Personally I don't think their position in the standings should have changed anything. And that they should have "stayed the course" and sold some guys off. Now some guys will walk for nothing.
You're right, trading picks for aging vets is what the old regime did when they thought they were a playoff and competitive team. Yes playoffs are a great experience for a young team but probably not when you get your arse handed to you in the first round because of your below average D.....if they make it that is.

Like who? Polak? Hunwick? Pretty sure they both had no market value, would be shocked to get more than a 7th for Polak and anything at all for Hunwick, we didn't miss out on much as far as trading UFA's.

 

[GoonieFace]

Personally I don't think their position in the standings should have changed anything. And that they should have "stayed the course" and sold some guys off. Now some guys will walk for nothing.
You're right, trading picks for aging vets is what the old regime did when they thought they were a playoff and competitive team. Yes playoffs are a great experience for a young team but probably not when you get your arse handed to you in the first round because of your below average D.....if they make it that is.

Who exactly is going to walk for nothing? Laich, Polak, Hunwick, Greening? Who cares, these guys arent worth anything anyway. If you trade Polak and Hunwick, what is that saying to the rest of the team? We are giving up, nice try and shove some guy into a role he is not ready for? That would have far worse implications than trading a 2nd rd pick for Boyle (which has no implications, because its peanuts).

This is not the old regime, one draft pick traded for some experienced help isnt changing the direction this team is going. Getting any playoff experience is huge, whether or not you get slaughtered.

 

[BlueBaron]

My point about the young defenseman is related to continuous comments in the Trade Thread that they have to target a young defender not some guy on his last legs. And a 1st. round pick MAN WTF how could you think about giving up a 1st. unless it's a guaranteed stud!

Okay, so they use a 2nd. round pick on an old 4th. liner, and it's a rental, and that's okay?

If you're willing to use a 2nd. round pick for a 4th. line rental, but your huge hole is on defense would you seriously hesitate to use a 1st. on a full time defender in a regular trade? (Obviously, you could lottery protect for a year.)

It is almost like a trade for trade sake to show "we're rewarding them!"

If a 20 game 4th. line rental is worth a 2nd., a permanent 2nd. pairing defender has got to be worth 4 times that, so anyone happy with this shouldn't have any complaints about using a 1st., 2nd., 3rd. and 4th. rounder for a top 4 defender.

But not a big deal anyway if Boyle can get 18 wheels back on the road it could be justified, but enough of the complaints about paying for the real areas of need, and that includes using 1st. round picks.

Ah I see what you are saying now. HF posters tend to be prospect and pick fixated. How many times have we heard such and such a guy who is in junior is better than a proven NHLer?

The first round pick is largely symbolic at this point. I hope we keep it but if we have to bite the bullet to solve that other RHD problem I could swallow it.

 

[BlueBaron]

Catch 22

Leafs unexpected pleasant surprise success put them into a buyers position. Management likely expected to be sellers this TD not giving away 2nd for rental.

Shana-management always talks about "staying the course", but an accelerated positive results seems to have accelerated the development process. Now potential playoff games being a great development tool opportunity.

Lets hope the Leafs make the playoffs now or paying 2nd round pick to miss the playoffs is what past management did.

Unless they extend him, then it just a good hockey trade.

 

[Menzinger]

Yeah, I'm starting to agree with Mirtle here.

The net negative of the cap space received isn't really offset by the relatively minor reward of a 4th. And sure one can say "it's only a couple million of cap" but eventually lots of little mistakes add up to a larger one. The Leafs are placing unnecessary constraints on themselves

 

[Menzinger]

I think myrtle forgets ,marner Mathews and nylander should all be very high end guys ,this is rebuild ,but if the leafs get in the playoffs ,boyle and fehr wil play 15 minutes a nite ,taking up some of bozak and jvr's time during the dawg time of a game ,a time where clearly cetain leafs cant play in ,,
time for myrtle to get real job anyways and take dangle with him lmao

If Fehr is getting 15 min a night the Leafs will be in rough shape - he's a pylon. Boyle (who I do like) shouldn't even be getting that much

 

[Holymakinaw]

Yeah, I'm starting to agree with Mirtle here.

The net negative of the cap space received isn't really offset by the relatively minor reward of a 4th. And sure one can say "it's only a couple million of cap" but eventually lots of little mistakes add up to a larger one. The Leafs are placing unnecessary constraints on themselves

Nah, it's only for one more year. They will still have TONS of cap space.

 

[Erndog]

Well, I think the Leafs should definitely get in on the Ducks/Wild issue before the x-draft.

I'm guessing two 1st. rounders along with a couple prospects could land one of the Duck's/Wild's defenders.

So that would be a permanent, young, defender with experience playing meaningful games in the playoffs.

So:

2 * 1st. rounders
1/2 prospects (Depends on which defender they can land)

for
Vantanen / Manson
Dumba / Brodin

In-freaken-credible!

 

[Lust4LEAFS]

Yeah, I'm starting to agree with Mirtle here.

The net negative of the cap space received isn't really offset by the relatively minor reward of a 4th. And sure one can say "it's only a couple million of cap" but eventually lots of little mistakes add up to a larger one. The Leafs are placing unnecessary constraints on themselves

They needed another forward to expose to Vegas, which they received in Fehr and also gained an asset while doing so (4th). There is so much cap room available next year it's not funny.

I still think they kick tires in the off-season on an Ekholm/Fowler/Dumba type deal from a team who has 4 D they would like to protect. We have lots of assets i believe to get a deal done.

 

[White Shadow]

Well, I think the Leafs should definitely get in on the Ducks/Wild issue before the x-draft.

I'm guessing two 1st. rounders along with a couple prospects could land one of the Duck's/Wild's defenders.

So that would be a permanent, young, defender with experience playing meaningful games in the playoffs.

So:

2 * 1st. rounders
1/2 prospects (Depends on which defender they can land)

for
Vantanen / Manson
Dumba / Brodin

I can't see the Wild making an X draft trade with anyone but Vegas.

They are just too deep. If they trade Brodin or Dumba, they still lose a great defender in Scandella. More likely, they protect one of Brodin/Dumba and give Vegas a 1st rounder to take Scandella over the unprotected Brodin/Dumba.

 

[Tak7]

Yeah, I'm starting to agree with Mirtle here.

The net negative of the cap space received isn't really offset by the relatively minor reward of a 4th. And sure one can say "it's only a couple million of cap" but eventually lots of little mistakes add up to a larger one. The Leafs are placing unnecessary constraints on themselves

It's 1 more year at $2 mill, for another draft ticket.

I'd hardly call that an "unnecessary constraint".

The other buried money they have all comes off the books this year, too. That's almost $8 million in cap relief they are getting.

Bit ridiculous to suggest what you are suggesting, to be honest.

 

[White Shadow]

It's 1 more year at $2 mill, for another draft ticket.

I'd hardly call that an "unnecessary constraint".

The other buried money they have all comes off the books this year, too. That's almost $8 million in cap relief they are getting.

Bit ridiculous to suggest what you are suggesting, to be honest.

It's not without merit. We have $17M before the overage penalty kicks in. Most estimates are between $4 and $5M for that penalty. So let's say $12.5 remaining to sign 8 players.

If you get lucky and re-sign Zaitsev, Brown and Hyman for $8M that leaves you $4.5M to sign 2F, 2D and 1 BG.


The extra 2 million would have come in handy.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Catch 22

Leafs unexpected pleasant surprise success put them into a buyers position. Management likely expected to be sellers this TD not giving away 2nd for rental.

Shana-management always talks about "staying the course", but an accelerated positive results seems to have accelerated the development process. Now potential playoff games being a great development tool opportunity.

Lets hope the Leafs make the playoffs now or paying 2nd round pick to miss the playoffs is what past management did.

Yes the fact that this management group did so the year after winning a generational talent and introducing he, along with the other 2 past top 10 picks, is also the same as past management.

Oh, right. It's not. Past management traded almost all their 2nd rounders. And had virtually no prospect depth. Or rookies contributing.

I wouldn't have done the Boyle traded and would have looked to move Hunwick and Polak to get more picks.

That doesn't mean I see no value in the move and am going to compare it to past management groups to try and get a reaction from people or prove a point that is completely out of left field in a year where the franchise has clearly turned a corner that some have been waiting on for over a decade.

 

[ULF_55]

I don't think you understand how to value picks, but that's okay.

The value of a 2nd. certainly deflated as soon at they used it for Boyle. Now it's just a 2nd. and maybe we can re-sign him as UFA in the summer, whereas other teams could just sign him without throwing some worthless 2nd. rounder away.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Yeah, I'm starting to agree with Mirtle here.

The net negative of the cap space received isn't really offset by the relatively minor reward of a 4th. And sure one can say "it's only a couple million of cap" but eventually lots of little mistakes add up to a larger one. The Leafs are placing unnecessary constraints on themselves

What constraints?

I'm more then confident our group knows how they want to manage their cap situation. It's a constant that people will obsess over cap space in this market whether we have none or tons the minute we bring in a salary or now even a contract everyone is scared at how it will effect future decisions. It's getting to be laughable.

We have no cap issues. We will find ways to move contracts around if we need a free slot.

After our rookies outgrow ELC's we'll be a cap team with little flexibility and everyone will obsess about it even more. Never ending cycle in a sport with an upper limit and you're fan of the team in the biggest market with the most revenue.

We will be fine cap space and contract wise next season. Ditching a headache for a similar replacement, a 4th rounder, and a veteran forward we can get some miles out of if we need or to stash on Robidas Island doesn't effect anything our management group wants to do. That's really all that matters.