Proposal: Tor - NJ
- Thread starter Bloomberg
- Start date
I don't think NJ gets any value from Kerfoot. While the prospects are nice, how would TOR fit the higher returning salaries under their cap? Also, I don't think those two prospects are enough to land those two NHL players. Both Zacha and Wood are playing well this year in what is a generally bad year for the franchise. It's unlikely NJ trades two of its better players on good contracts both of whom remain RFAs at the end of their current deals for two promising maybes.
Bloomberg
Registered User
- Jun 20, 2014
- 1,869
- 481
Wood and Zacha have a combined cap of 5M this season and next. Kerfoot and Engvall combined is 4.75M. So the cap is close enough I think to have something worked out.
Hmm.. if that's not enough value for NJ, maybe Toronto can add something else. What do you think evens out the trade? Dubas has been on record saying, all prospects are on the table.
Kerfoot is a no go Jersey drafted him and he refused to sign with them
Hard no. Wood and Zacha are interesting players, but not for Sandin.
Pierre Engvall is a full time NHL player and is currently the Leafs 3c.
Pierre Engvall is a full time NHL player and is currently the Leafs 3c.
Sandin is enticing but Zacha is having an absolute monster year. Hes young and part of the core, we gotta hope he continues this path
hidek91
Registered User
Boondock
Registered User
- Feb 6, 2009
- 5,778
- 2,387
For a rebuilding team, the return has to make sense in the future. Kerfoot isn't a future piece for NJ and is the most expensive piece signed for the longest time. I like Engvall as well, but he is a 3rd line player, both Zacha and Woods are that as well but have been doing it for longer in the NHL for the team that drafted and developed them so while skill level is probably similar, why trade away players you know and know the organization etc. as for Sandin, I think he has very high value but is it enough to entice the Devils to swap Zacha and Woods for Engvall and Kerfoot?
Secondly, a team like Toronto shouldn't be moving Sandin unless it gets them that "Ray Bourque" piece. Sandin's value to the Leafs is his contract and his ability to potentially improve the team internally next season. Say the Leafs lose Dermott to Seattle, Sandin @ $900k and another season of development probably makes the Leafs D even better than this year. Does trading Sandin along with Engvall and Kerfoot make the Leafs clearly better? Maybe but I would not want to part with Sandin in a deal like this, I don't see significant enough improvement to lose a prospect of Sandin's level.
Secondly, a team like Toronto shouldn't be moving Sandin unless it gets them that "Ray Bourque" piece. Sandin's value to the Leafs is his contract and his ability to potentially improve the team internally next season. Say the Leafs lose Dermott to Seattle, Sandin @ $900k and another season of development probably makes the Leafs D even better than this year. Does trading Sandin along with Engvall and Kerfoot make the Leafs clearly better? Maybe but I would not want to part with Sandin in a deal like this, I don't see significant enough improvement to lose a prospect of Sandin's level.
SpeakingOfTheDevils
Devils Advocate
I like Sandin, but I really like what I’ve seen from Wood and Zacha this year.
Pass.
Pass.
I don't understand, didn't Dubas just say he prefers rentals? Wood and Zacha both have years of control left, and both would be exposed to Seattle in the ex draft. Palmieri, Gusev, Zajac, Murray, or Kulikov seem like they would make more sense.
Bloomberg
Registered User
- Jun 20, 2014
- 1,869
- 481
I think the Leafs can protect Zach and Woods in the ex draft. Yeah he did say that he'd prefer rentals, but he also said he's will to include top prospects. I don't think he'll include a top prospect like Sandin for a half season rental... that'll be terrible. So I think he's alway looking for deals like I've proposed.
Okay, I forgot that TML had so many UFAs at the end of the season. Don't know enough about Sandin to offer feedback on the proposal, but given Zacha's play this year and his contract, I would expect a Blake Coleman type return if Fitz chose to move him. I really have no idea what Wood's value is. He's an uneven scorer, but he does produce, and he plays a very physical style, but on the other hand he's not good defensively and he doesn't kill penalties or do other useful bottom six type stuff.
CatchyTune
JOHN TAVARES IS A MAPLE LEAF
i do like these guys but absolutely no chance i trade Sandin for 2 bottom 6 guys, as good as they are in their roles.
Bloomberg
Registered User
- Jun 20, 2014
- 1,869
- 481
IIRC, Sandin was named the top defensemen at the WJC-20. He's a high IQ Dmen, very good at moving the puck and takes good position. Offensive very solid, but I would say defensively, he should be paired with more of a defensive dmen. I would almost say he's like Ty Smith, not as strong a skater, but higher IQ. I would say he will be a top 4 Dmen, with the ceiling being a #2D, but more likely ending up as a #3D.
Hmm... I don't know Miles Wood that well, but people on the Leafs board has popped up a few times. Given that he's not good defensively is a bit concerning. Can you comment on McLeod, Kuokkanen, Maltsev, and Sharangovich in terms how you'd ranked them to each other and Wood in terms of value and if they are good defensively? Maybe one of them can be swapped with Wood.
Got it, he's probably not a great fit as Smith is a LD, Mukhamadullin is a LD, and they have a bunch more LD in minors, but badly need RD. NJ would probably prefer RD or wings.
Wood is a guy that comes up in trade proposals a lot because he plays a high energy game and tends to make an impression on opposing team's fans. As recently as last year he was underperforming his (rather modest) contract and some Devils fans even wanted to buy him out. His game matured significantly this year, but his defensive impacts are still poor. I have hope that that part of his game will mature too. If it does, he will become a very valuable physical two-way forward.
All of the young forwards you listed are significantly better defensively than Wood. It's a little tricky to rank them against Wood because they're so new while Wood has been in the league for four and a half years. I would personally rank them like this.
1. Maltsev
2. Kuokkanen
3. Sharangovich
4. McLeod
Maltsev has been arguably the Devils best forward when he's played this year. It's a little shocking, he was supposed to be a depth piece, but he's tilted the ice whichever line he's been put on, he's very solid defensively, and he even seems to drive play. His 4 goals in 13 games don't look that impressive, but keep in mind that for the most part his linemates are all playing like turds. Look at his +/- of +3. That's on a team that's been brutally bad since he was called up. I know what a dubious stat that is, but his Corsi, xG, and all the fancy stats are, again, almost shockingly good, like top-six type numbers. The obvious caveat is that we're talking about a miniscule sample size. 13 NHL games. Search his name on Twitter and you will see some of the rave reviews he's gotten, and Lindy Ruff has called him out over and over again in post game press conferences. It would be tough to pry Maltsev out of NJ.
Kuokkanen has been almost as good as Maltsev at times. Just not quite as consistent and the peaks aren't quite as high. He has also flown under the radar for most of the season, but he's had a small contingent of fans that supported him and have grown more vocal, and at this point most of the Devils board agrees that he's been quite good, among the Devils's best forwards this year. Similar to Maltsev, we're talking about a small sample size. NJ might be willing to move Kuokkonen for the right price.
Sharangovich is an interesting one. Unlike Maltsev and Kuokkonen, he's just shown flashes this season. If you're not familiar with his story, he was relatively obscure before this season, but then broke out in the KHL scoring 17 goals in 34 games (based in part on an unsustainable shooting percentage, but even if you adjust his totals down to assume a more reasonable %, it was still a good season). He came over and looked fantastic in camp, NJ fans thought he would prove a steal and maybe even challenge for the Calder, but it just didn't work out that way. After a strong start he stopped generating much offense, although it comes back in flashes. There's no denying the tools, a 6'2 guy with great speed and a tremendous wrist shot, but he still needs some polish. I personally don't think most teams really want to trade for a guy like Sharangovich, I think most teams have their own guys that have good upside but also could fail to stick in the league.
McLeod is probably the most familiar to other teams fans because of his draft position (#12 in 2016). He's not really anywhere near as good as you would expect a #12 to be. He could still improve, guys his age (23) do that sometimes, but he probably is what he is at this point, a 4th line energy guy that plays decent defense and kills penalties. He is pretty consistent with the effort, and I could see a playoff team wanting him to improve the 4th line or as depth, but he can't play up the lineup or anything like that. There may still be some Devils fans that think McLeod is valuable, but I think they're wrong.
As far as Wood is concerned, I probably put him beneath Sharangovich and above McLeod. Shara doesn't have the defensive issues that Wood does, but Wood offsets the defensive issues with enough scoring to put him ahead of McLeod.
Im sorry 7g and 10a in 25 games and a -8 with 1 pp goal is nothing close to a monster year. wake-up
- Oct 22, 2002
- 9,432
- 4,041
Bloomberg
Registered User
- Jun 20, 2014
- 1,869
- 481
Thank you for the detailed analysis. I'm really interested in Maltsev and Kuokkanen now. It seems Kuokkanen has a higher floor, while Maltsev has a higher ceiling. I get the appeal Wood. A potential Tom Wilson type player, but the fact he's poor defensively won't work for the Leafs IMO.
In terms of Leafs prospects that are RHD or wings, there is Liljegren, Robertson and Amirov. Liljegren is RHD and NHL ready, he'll make the Devils team this year IMO. He was drafted for his offense, but he's since developed to be a reliable defensive game in the AHL. I would probably compare him to Severson, but better passing. Robertson is a LW, who scored above a goal per game pace in the OHL last year. People say he could become a 40 goal scorer, but he is on the smaller size. I think he'll definitely score lots of goals in the NHL, but the key question is whether he'll be a liability on the defensive end. He is arguably Toronto's best prospect along with Sandin. Amirov is our latest 1 rounder. He's biggest asset seems to be his IQ. He seem to be a solid 2-way winger, with a high potential, but it's uncertain whether he'll reach that potential.
- Jan 24, 2007
- 7,302
- 7,721
Arthur Morgan
Registered User
Sorry this feels like homerism. I think Wood and Zacha is over payment for that package
I like Sandin alot but I think Id take this and run
KovalSNIPE
Registered User
- Feb 9, 2011
- 1,282
- 297
To be fair the only reason he didn't sign with us is because we had center depth already with Nico, Zacha, Henrique and Zajac at the time. He was pretty open about it.
He wanted to sign with a team where he had more of an opportunity.
Albus Dumbledore
Master of Death
- Mar 28, 2015
- 9,007
- 2,670
Pass. The leafs literally had the choice between them this off-season, they kept there "guy".
