Confirmed Signing with Link: [TOR] F Auston Matthews signs extension with the Maple Leafs (4 years, $13.25M AAV)

[Voight]

Yup. And now he is no good or whatever the narrative has changed to. And people seem to love waiving away what he has done by "playofffsss" he is only a PPG player in the playoffs, obviously that cancels his other accomplishments.

The narrative with Matthews has always been this way too. I remember fans laughing at the notion he might score more than 30 points as a rookie after he was drafted. Then he had that unreal world tournament (where people said he only made the team because Toronto was hosting) and people then shifted and said he was just a product of Mcdavid.

At least the narrative has been consistent.

He said himself at the end of the season he wanted to stay, but of course people had to turn around and go "well yea obviously hahahha Toronto will overpay him and he also wouldnt admit it if he wanted to leave"

 

[Voight]

This is why the man got what he got


View attachment 741007

Ovy is 11 years older than the oldest guy on that list, GOAT for real

 

[mkatcherin00]

To a certain extent. But the elite guys still produce relatively close to their regular season averages.

Crosby:
Regular season - 38 g, 102 pts
Playoffs - 31 g, 92 pts

Ovechkin:
Regular - 50 g, 89 pts
Playoffs - 40 g, 79 pts

Kane:
Regular - 31 g, 85 pts
Playoffs - 28 g, 75 pts

Matthews:
Regular - 51 g, 92 pts
Playoffs - 36 g, 72 pts

In the first three cases, the points drop was around 10 points below their regular season per 82 career average. Matthews drops by a whopping 20 points lower than his regular season average. And that's not taking into account that the first three have suffered from the "production goes down when the player reaches 30+ years old" thing. Crosby, for instance, was averaging over 100 points in the playoffs prior to the last 4 or 5 playoff runs when he hit 30 years old.

Not to mention, in term of his area of strength (goal scoring) he drops from being a 51 goal scorer in the regular season to a 36 goal scorer. Ovechkin still maintains a 40+ average despite the fact the last couple of runs at age 34 and 35 hurt his average (only 3 goals in 11 games). Crosby, who is more of a playmaker than goal scorer, only sees a drop from 38 goals to 31.

That's the problem. Matthews, in comparison to other elites, sees arguably the biggest drop in production come playoff time.

Can you show Kucherov, Drai. mcDavid, Mackinnon, etc? A boston guy or two

 

[D Wakaluk]

I'll stop the back and forth. You seem very upset, but I am glad we can agree that factually Matthews is a Kane-level playoff performer, and he has been PPG for the last 5 seasons.

I gotta ask,

Which clutch moment / goal was your favourite from Matthews from the Florida series?

 

[mkatcherin00]

Kucherov: 142GP 160P
Point: 82GP 82P
Draisaitl: 49GP 77P
McDavid: 49GP 75P
Pastrnak: 77GP 79P
Mack: 77GP 100P

Matthews: 50GP 44P
Marner: 50GP 47P

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I got a question for you.... Why are you talking about Eichel in a Matthews thread? if you love him so much why not go express it in an Eichel thread? he really has nothing to do with Matthews

I suspect the reason is, being forced to reply to posters like you that can't reply enough to me when I posted this 100% factual chart in relation to what Matthews new contract is paying him. When you are the highest paid player in the NHL next season, and when your prorate his 11.64 x 5 + 13.25 x 3(4) paying him on par with the McDavid, which everyone would agree Matthews is not on the same tier as, you better be better than most of these players in the playoffs. Which we know Matthews is clearly not.

Eichel first playoffs, 22 GP, 26 points, won a Stanley Cup.
McDavid 49GP, 75 points. 4 playoff series wins, 1 Conference final.
Mackinnon 77GP, 100 points, Stanley Cup
Draisaitl 49GP, 77 points 4 playoff series wins, 1 Conference final.
Matthews 50GP, 44 points, 1 series win

 

[notbias]

I gotta ask,

Which clutch moment / goal was your favourite from Matthews from the Florida series?

He didn't play that well in that series, and Bob was lights out.

It is like asking which was your favourite moment of Tkachuk against Vegas.

His clutch game against Tampa was great though.

I was trying to see who your team was so I could give a better example, but it seems like you just obsess over the Leafs and don't cheer on anyone based on your post history.

 

[notbias]

Kucherov: 142GP 160P
Point: 82GP 82P
Draisaitl: 49GP 77P
McDavid: 49GP 75P
Pastrnak: 77GP 79P
Mack: 77GP 100P

Matthews: 50GP 44P
Marner: 50GP 47P

Tkachuk? Aho? Barkov? Marchand? ROR? Toews? Giroux? Robertson? Robertson? Kopitar? Panarin? Pavelski? Forsberg? Barzal? Bergeron? Stone? Gaudreau?

You're missing some big names... keep going

 

[D Wakaluk]

He didn't play that well in that series, and Bob was lights out.

It is like asking which was your favourite moment of Tkachuk against Vegas.

His clutch game against Tampa was great though.

I was trying to see who your team was so I could give a better example, but it seems like you just obsess over the Leafs and don't cheer on anyone based on your post history.

Well I'm glad you're happy with his playoff clutchiness!

Yeah I'm more of a neutral fan these days but I do enjoy Leaf games. The unlimited hype and the eventual falldown with the excuses and eventual chest thumbing about anything is always entertaining.

When do you think Matthews grows balls so he can truly dominate in the playoffs?

 

[VivaLasVegas]

When do you think Matthews grows balls so he can truly dominate in the playoffs?

Can Matthews be a playoff leader? AM has impressive regular-season statistics, but the playoffs require so much more in terms of leading a team to victory. AM so far and to me at least hasn't shown any of the "we're going to win or die trying" leadership of somebody like MacKinnon. Does he have it? Guess we'll find out. If your highest paid guy doesn't step up, it ain't happening.

 

[Fatass]

I suspect the reason is, being forced to reply to posters like you that can't reply enough to me when I posted this 100% factual chart in relation to what Matthews new contract is paying him. When you are the highest paid player in the NHL next season, and when your prorate his 11.64 x 5 + 13.25 x 3(4) paying him on par with the McDavid, which everyone would agree Matthews is not on the same tier as, you better be better than most of these players in the playoffs. Which we know Matthews is clearly not.

Eichel first playoffs, 22 GP, 26 points, won a Stanley Cup.
McDavid 49GP, 75 points. 4 playoff series wins, 1 Conference final.
Mackinnon 77GP, 100 points, Stanley Cup
Draisaitl 49GP, 77 points 4 playoff series wins, 1 Conference final.
Matthews 50GP, 44 points, 1 series win

When I see how you’ve pointed out the difference in scoring between these players it makes me wonder if Auston produced like these other guys the Leafs might have a Cup? Imagine adding 20 goals to those 50 games. Leafs for sure win a lot more.

 

[mkatcherin00]

Tkachuk? Aho? Barkov? Marchand? ROR? Toews? Giroux? Robertson? Robertson? Kopitar? Panarin? Pavelski? Forsberg? Barzal? Bergeron? Stone? Gaudreau?

You're missing some big names... keep going

He wanted top $$, so I am comparing him to the elites

Can Matthews be a playoff leader? AM has impressive regular-season statistics, but the playoffs require so much more in terms of leading a team to victory. AM so far and to me at least hasn't shown any of the "we're going to win or die trying" leadership of somebody like MacKinnon. Does he have it? Guess we'll find out. If your highest paid guy doesn't step up, it ain't happening.

He is a great player, but Matthews just does not have that "inner fire/drive" etc. You can just see it throughout his career. It's not his mojo. Compare him to Mackinnon or McDavid, etc and how angry they get in the playoffs. That's what I see. Top 10 regular season player, underperformer in crunch time.

 

[McVespa99]

A lot of players do poorly in their first couple of playoffs, McDavid is an example, rookie year, their team sucked and he couldn't drag them to the playoffs cause he got injured, second year, 57-point pace in the playoffs.

Matthews unfortunately plays on a much better team than the Oilers so he has played in the playoffs every year so he's had more development years where he played.

Just showing he has developed into a PPG playoff performer, I am sorry if that upsets you.

Why would Matthews playoff performance upset fans of other teams? Im personally very happy with his performance in the playoffs since Im not a Leafs fan.

 

[notbias]

Can Matthews be a playoff leader? AM has impressive regular-season statistics, but the playoffs require so much more in terms of leading a team to victory. AM so far and to me at least hasn't shown any of the "we're going to win or die trying" leadership of somebody like MacKinnon. Does he have it? Guess we'll find out. If your highest paid guy doesn't step up, it ain't happening.

Did MacKinnon forget about that leadership every year but one?

Vegas needed to be 10 million over the cap to find that leadership.

 

[mkatcherin00]

What I'd be more concerned about is also how often their line is scoring vs. how often they get scored against.

For example, a player like Draisaitl is 50% GF at 5v5

It is why the Oilers don't do well in the playoffs... PPs go cold during the playoffs sometimes and that is the Oiler's whole game plan. You can't win when your 2nd best player is not helping you at 5v5.

Matthews is around 57% GF, the team is doing much better when he is on the ice, and he is not the issue with the Leafs losing.

Auston Matthews has 22 goals, 22 assists and a plus-minus of 0 in 50 games in the playoffs in his career

Connor McDavid has 49GP 75P a plus 16 in the playoffs

Leon Draisaitl has 49GP and 77P and is a plus 10 int he playoffs.

Looks like Connor and Leon are head and shoulders better ES players in the playoffs than the other guy and also played on worse teams.

 

[notbias]

Auston Matthews has 22 goals, 22 assists and a plus-minus of 0 in 50 games in the playoffs in his career

Connor McDavid has 49GP 75P a plus 16 in the playoffs

Leon Draisaitl has 49GP and 77P and is a plus 10 int he playoffs.

Looks like Connor and Leon are head and shoulders better ES players in the playoffs than the other guy and also played on worse teams.

firstly, you don't know how +/- works.

My mistake was looking at recent years (last 3), Drai is +1 GD at ES (43F 42A). Trash defense and shouldn't be trusted to win a playoff game at 5v5, great on the PP though.

McDavid is better (49F 39A)

 

[WetcoastOrca]

What I'd be more concerned about is also how often their line is scoring vs. how often they get scored against.

For example, a player like Draisaitl is 50% GF at 5v5

It is why the Oilers don't do well in the playoffs... PPs go cold during the playoffs sometimes and that is the Oiler's whole game plan. You can't win when your 2nd best player is not helping you at 5v5.

Matthews is around 57% GF, the team is doing much better when he is on the ice, and he is not the issue with the Leafs losing.

You must have goalposts on rollers so you can move them so quickly.
The bottom line is that Matthews disappeared against Florida. You can’t win when your best player doesn’t score a single goal.
As for the Oilers not doing well in the playoffs, I’m guessing the irony of that statement will be lost on you. Lol.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

I suspect the reason is, being forced to reply to posters like you that can't reply enough to me when I posted this 100% factual chart in relation to what Matthews new contract is paying him. When you are the highest paid player in the NHL next season, and when your prorate his 11.64 x 5 + 13.25 x 3(4) paying him on par with the McDavid, which everyone would agree Matthews is not on the same tier as, you better be better than most of these players in the playoffs. Which we know Matthews is clearly not.

Eichel first playoffs, 22 GP, 26 points, won a Stanley Cup.
McDavid 49GP, 75 points. 4 playoff series wins, 1 Conference final.
Mackinnon 77GP, 100 points, Stanley Cup
Draisaitl 49GP, 77 points 4 playoff series wins, 1 Conference final.
Matthews 50GP, 44 points, 1 series win

Right on man, but you are aware that Eichel is a clear tier below Matthews right? if you cant see that then I dont know what to tell you.

I honestly dont even need to read what you say because your likely just repeating your self over and over again from earlier. but hey its fine if you would take Eichel over Matthews just know you would be in the minority

besides what's the issue with Matthews getting paid? the star players like Matthews are the ones that deserve to get paid. not bottom 6 players. it was always going to go this way, McDavid, MacKinnon, Matthews, Draisaitl and then McDavid. it's the way the cap works.

 

[VivaLasVegas]

but you are aware that Eichel is a clear tier below Matthews right?

Only in fantasy leagues and while Matthews has more gaudy regular-season stats, the comparison fails in the playoffs where Matthews has shown all the fire of a wet towel. Good for Matthews getting the big payday, which after all is regular-season compensation and he certainly does well there.

 

[Skolman]

Only in fantasy leagues and while Matthews has more gaudy regular-season stats, the comparison fails in the playoffs where Matthews has shown all the fire of a wet towel. Good for Matthews getting the big payday, which after all is regular-season compensation and he certainly does well there.

I get it that you're a Vegas fan, but come on now...

 

[VivaLasVegas]

I get it that you're a Vegas fan, but come on now...

Sorry, but my opinion of AM is that as a highly-paid star, he's a playoff bust. Matthews doesn't play bad during the playoffs, but he doesn't play special either at exactly the time when he needs to play special. Thus, nothing special for his teammates to latch on to and elevate their own play. When your top star doesn't find an extra gear, nobody else is likely to either. Good regular-season player though. My two cents.

 

[Andreas Ferrari]

I haven't been following this thread but I'm so glad Matthews re-signed with the Leafs.

If my Jets don't win a Cup, then I hope the leafs will. After all these years Leaf fans deserve to win a Cup or two.

Wouldn't it be great if the Leafs faced the Jets in the Stanley Cup Final?

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Only in fantasy leagues and while Matthews has more gaudy regular-season stats, the comparison fails in the playoffs where Matthews has shown all the fire of a wet towel. Good for Matthews getting the big payday, which after all is regular-season compensation and he certainly does well there.

No in real life as well Matthews is the better player and is a tier above Eichel.
hey it's fine if you like Eichel. I dunno how you would rather the guy with a career filled with attitude problems over the more elite player,

your entitled to your opinion no matter how wrong it is

Auston Matthews or Jack Eichel?

I’m not mad. I’m simply saying it’s strange how upset you’re getting about a singular player. Just to clarify here. I’m stalking, the non stalker whose last 60 points are about a single player. That makes sense to you? Lol. Thanks for the laugh That poster is on a crusade they can't be...

forums.hfboards.com

also seems the vast majority disagree with you too by voting and that's also with the leafs-bias. Im sorry but Eichel really isnt that close as all to Matthews

 

[AvroArrow]

Sorry, but my opinion of AM is that as a highly-paid star, he's a playoff bust. Matthews doesn't play bad during the playoffs, but he doesn't play special either at exactly the time when he needs to play special. Thus, nothing special for his teammates to latch on to and elevate their own play. When your top star doesn't find an extra gear, nobody else is likely to either. Good regular-season player though. My two cents.

Unfortunately this is an accurate statement. But everyone is a playoff bust until they aren't. He has too much talent, he'll break through and have a deep run or two eventually.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Right on man, but you are aware that Eichel is a clear tier below Matthews right? if you cant see that then I dont know what to tell you.

I honestly dont even need to read what you say because your likely just repeating your self over and over again from earlier. but hey its fine if you would take Eichel over Matthews just know you would be in the minority

besides what's the issue with Matthews getting paid? the star players like Matthews are the ones that deserve to get paid. not bottom 6 players. it was always going to go this way, McDavid, MacKinnon, Matthews, Draisaitl and then McDavid. it's the way the cap works.

I rest my case. Seems like you are the one that was intent on talking about EIchel in a Matthews thread. Since I am forced to reply again on this. BTW there are other players on the list. Nothing on them? We will disagree on Eichel. Most will take a player that led their team to a Stanley Cup over a one and out player in the playoffs. Matthews has clearly underperformed in the playoffs to the players in the list I posted, I don't blame you for not looking at it, there is no reply to facts.

As for the last part, if you want to pay Matthews on par with McDavid and more starting next season, then you are accepting a 100% player friendly contract that effects the team's internal cap structure as a positive. It is not the way the cap works for successful teams. It effects the support players a team can ice and it sets a precedence for other key players wanting more of the same pie. Matthews has not led there either with taking every last cent and shorter terms. He is not McDavid. He is overpaid in comparison to the players on the list I posted. The proof is in the Leafs have won 1 playoff rd in 7 years with Matthews leading the team with his mediocre playoff performances. Where the comparables I posted all raised their games in the playoffs while making less.