Top-40 Stanley Cup Playoff Performers of All-Time - Preliminary Discussion Thread

[CokenoPepsi]

Where will Jonathan Toews and Pat Kane land?

 

[DNA]

Where will Jonathan Toews and Pat Kane land?

I won't rank any current players. That may be wrong, but I'm quite sure it will be more than made up for by those eager to do so!

Strictly out of curiosity, do any of these players that have captained at least 2 Cup wins, make anybody's list: George Armstrong, Butch Bouchard, Sid Abel, Doug Young, Sylvio Mantha, or Eddie Gerard?

I opted not to include on that list Bobby Clarke, Ted Lindsay, and Bill Cook, because I think most will assess their merits beyond their captaincy.

But captaining a Cup champion deserves some merit all its own, no?

 

[MXD]

I won't rank any current players. That may be wrong, but I'm quite sure it will be more than made up for by those eager to do so!

Strictly out of curiosity, do any of these players that have captained at least 2 Cup wins, make anybody's list: George Armstrong, Butch Bouchard, Sid Abel, Doug Young, Sylvio Mantha, or Eddie Gerard?

I opted not to include on that list Bobby Clarke, Ted Lindsay, and Bill Cook, because I think most will assess their merits beyond their captaincy.

But captaining a Cup champion deserves some merit all its own, no?

On your 2nd paragraph, and respectively :
In Top-125, No, In Top-125, Never even thought about it, No and No.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Upon first glance, only Keith makes it from the modern Hawks trio.

I firmly view him as the backbone of those Cup teams.

 

[BayStreetBully]

Maybe not, and I'm not picking on Trottier specifically. But this is sort of the point I was trying to make: If dynasty players get a free pass for everything that happened outside the Cup-winning years, then the entire list will be dynasty players. The fact is, Trottier had some poor playoff performances before and after the 1980-1983 span. I don't think you can totally ignore that.

It is so rare to win 4 straight cups, and to contribute to that to the extent that Trottier did is even more rare. It shouldn't matter all that much what he did outside of those years, unless you compare him to someone who also won 4 cups and contributed outside of those years too. Trottier shouldn't compare well to Gretzky, but he looks better than most others who had less team success.

 

[bobholly39]

I don't think more playoff games is ever a negative - even if the player stunk.

If Wayne Gretzky had 4 playoff seasons of 45 points each and only 1 other playoff run of 20 games but 3 points only where his team lost the cup - and maybe in large part because he underperformed - I'd still rank him ahead of another player who had 4 playoff runs of 45 points each and no other runs (assuming of course the 4 45 point run are all deemed "equal", as it's not just about points). That 3 point 20 game run - even though it's "bad" and "underperforming" for Gretzky would still be better than someone with 0 games played.

I think more games played is always a good thing. Maybe in some cases it's only a "little" good if the player under performed, but i don't think it's ever a negative, it can only be a positive.

 

[bobholly39]

I won't rank any current players. That may be wrong, but I'm quite sure it will be more than made up for by those eager to do so!

Are you saying you don't think any of the current players have a good enough playoff resume to make your top 60?

Or are you saying even if they do - you don't want to consider current players and thus will leave them off?

Because if it's the latter - i don't really think that's fair. The project isn't meant to exclude current players, and if other people follow your lead it will skew the results against current players which wouldn't be fair imo.

 

[blogofmike]

It is so rare to win 4 straight cups, and to contribute to that to the extent that Trottier did is even more rare. It shouldn't matter all that much what he did outside of those years, unless you compare him to someone who also won 4 cups and contributed outside of those years too. Trottier shouldn't compare well to Gretzky, but he looks better than most others who had less team success.

Definitely. But there would be a lot of those guys on the list, no?

1988 is the year he'd have been better off missing the playoffs. 0 points. 0 Isles goals scored at ES or PP or SH while he was on the ice vs. 9 minuses for a -9 rating. 4 PP goals scored by Devils with Trottier on the ice as part of a mediocre PK unit. Isles have a 13-4 Plus vs Minus advantage when Trottier is off the ice.

Trottier brought plenty to the table in the dynasty run, but he may have been knocking things off of the table in 1988.

 

[seventieslord]

So many different viewpoints here. I really can't predict how the final list is going to look at all.

 

[MXD]

So many different viewpoints here. I really can't predict how the final list is going to look at all.

...And that's without even getting into the differences in the assessment of a given player.

 

[Theokritos]

So many different viewpoints here. I really can't predict how the final list is going to look at all.

The screeners' job is going to be a bit of a challenge this time around.

 

[seventieslord]

The screeners' job is going to be a bit of a challenge this time around.

I can imagine maybe a dozen players are going to be worth questioning if they're not there.

If 2-time smythe winners like Parent and Lemieux can arguably be left out, then there are not many givens.

 

[steve141]

But Orr, Parent, and Mario must largely be judged on their 2 Smythe trophy winning years, and in each case their only 2 Cup winning years, otherwise their resume would be somewhat lacking.

Lemieux has the 2nd highest PPG of players with at least 10 playoff games, Orr has the 5th highest. It's not about how many cups you have, but how good you were. I'd rank them over Claude Provost any day.

 

[DNA]

Are you saying you don't think any of the current players have a good enough playoff resume to make your top 60?

Or are you saying even if they do - you don't want to consider current players and thus will leave them off?

Because if it's the latter - i don't really think that's fair. The project isn't meant to exclude current players, and if other people follow your lead it will skew the results against current players which wouldn't be fair imo.

I'm saying I hate ranking current players on GOAT lists, period. Before they make their HHOF speech, why am I assessing their career? But that's just me.

Toews, Kane, Keith, Hossa, Crosby, Malkin, Quick, Williams are all in play. But I'm being asked for just my top 60. There are many factors to be weighed, and 125yrs to be considered, so why do I have to weigh hypotheticals, and anyone still playing is a skating hypothetical? Those weighing Trottier's contributions to Pittsburgh, or the Islanders after their dynasty days, make my point completely.

But okay, Toews is definitely #43, Kane #44, Crosby #52, and Quick #60!

 

[MXD]

I'd reply that there are player with shorter careers than Malkin and Toews who are definitely making the list (mine at least) so I I don't see why we'd block those recent active players.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Brain Cramp Moments

How do we evaluate, brain cramp moments, especially by defencemen? Sprague Cleghorn, Eddie Shore,Chris Chelios,Chris Pronger, others. On and off the ice during playoff time.

 

[Iceman]

What Conn Smythe winners shouldn't stand a chance at making this list? There are some obvious ones post lockout but is there any safely outside but still in the 41-60 range?

 

[Sprague Cleghorn]

What Conn Smythe winners shouldn't stand a chance at making this list? There are some obvious ones post lockout but is there any safely outside but still in the 41-60 range?

Leach, Crozier, Hextall, Gainey...

 

[MXD]

What Conn Smythe winners shouldn't stand a chance at making this list? There are some obvious ones post lockout but is there any safely outside but still in the 41-60 range?

I cant see myaelf having any room for Justin Williams.
As for 41 to 60 range, that's a very small range...

 

[Iceman]

I cant see myaelf having any room for Justin Williams.
As for 41 to 60 range, that's a very small range...

41-100 then. Being a top 100 playoff performer is pretty good still.

 

[DNA]

Um, some of my queries I think have been misinterpreted, as I've been largely playing Devil's advocate. 2 Conn Smythe's will tend to place anyone near the top of my list. And I probably wouldn't consider Armstrong or Bouchard at all.

I'm big on superlatives. 3 Smythe's, captaining 5 Cups, captaining 2 franchises to Cups, netting 8 OT goals, leading 6 playoffs in scoring, winning 11 Cups, winning 6 Cups on 4 different teams, winning 8 non-Hab Cups, these things are the factors that I'll use to make decisions.

Reggie Leach will probably be my #60, as he's the only non-goalie to win a Smythe from a Cup-losing team. And that was while setting a record that still stands, following 2 Cup wins.

Again, that's just me.

 

[bigbuffalo313]

I want to participate in this, but I don't think I can. I don't know enough about older eras and just looking at playoffs is a lot more difficult than everything combined. I look forward to what you guys come up with

 

[CokenoPepsi]

I'm saying I hate ranking current players on GOAT lists, period. Before they make their HHOF speech, why am I assessing their career? But that's just me.

Toews, Kane, Keith, Hossa, Crosby, Malkin, Quick, Williams are all in play. But I'm being asked for just my top 60. There are many factors to be weighed, and 125yrs to be considered, so why do I have to weigh hypotheticals, and anyone still playing is a skating hypothetical? Those weighing Trottier's contributions to Pittsburgh, or the Islanders after their dynasty days, make my point completely.

But okay, Toews is definitely #43, Kane #44, Crosby #52, and Quick #60!

I know you were joking but Toews over Kane and Crosby? Cmon man

 

[DNA]

I know you were joking but Toews over Kane and Crosby? Cmon man

Well now I'm definitely gonna have current players on my list. Cause Toews deserves a place, even though he's not receiving much love on these boards lately. But captaining 3 Cups, having a Conn Smythe, and still scoring at crucial times presently, counts to me! Kane will make it too, but Toews is what this list's about. Again, that's just me.

 

[seventieslord]

I think even if we're only going to have 40 names on our final list, the longer the lists we submit in round one, the better. Like, even 100.