Top 4: Swedes, Canadians or Americans

[Spilot23]

You really think Dahlin is going to trail off in the 2nd half? Have you watched him and Buffalo play this season?

He may not finish at a PPG, but dont tell me having him in Colorado's lineup over Makar suddenly gets them eliminated from last playoffs. Please. Colorado was a lot more than just Makar last spring.

I will be totally honest in telling you no as I haven't made comment towards his play. What surprises me is saying that the Avs would've won anyway if it was Dahlin or even Karlsson that took Makar's place. I understand they're having great season so far but what Makar did is through the whole regular season and kept going in the playoffs ence the Norris and Conn Smythe where Dahlin as yet to play a playoff game.

You sounded more like if Makar was just a passenger on this playoff team when he was the best player in the regular season and playoffs. So yeah to me both players are overhyped right now and I will say rightfully so since they're having an amazing season but you're also trying to downplay Makar's full season and playoffs as if a 30 games sample could tell us the whole picture versus a guy that has actually done something that hasn't been done since Lidstrom and Orr.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

You really think Dahlin is going to trail off in the 2nd half? Have you watched him and Buffalo play this season?

He may not finish at a PPG, but dont tell me having him in Colorado's lineup over Makar suddenly gets them eliminated from last playoffs. Please. Colorado was a lot more than just Makar last spring.

We don't even know how Dahlin would perform in the playoffs. Some elevate their game while others disappoint. It's asking quite a lot to perform at a Conn Smythe level, especially in your first playoff appearance.

 

[shelf]

You could make an argument that none of Pietrangelo, Morrisey or Theodore belong for top 4 Canada. Could be any of Toews, Ekblad, Hamilton

 

[Miro4Norris]

so now youre saying Dahlin is the reason why Buffalo havent made the playoffs in forever. Are you serious?

You think if Makar was on Buffalo the past 5 years theyd suddenly be contenders I take it?

1st picks are supposed to lift their team's performance. Buffalo hasn't been any better since Dahlin arrived. Colorado went from historically bad team (year before) to Elite team during Makar's first year

 

[MartinBe]

1st picks are supposed to lift their team's performance. Buffalo hasn't been any better since Dahlin arrived. Colorado went from historically bad team (year before) to Elite team during Makar's first year

Did Dahlin also make his first NHL game in the playoff?

 

[Hamilton Bulldogs]

Makar

 

[Ben White]

United States easily. Their pairings are much better defensively while the other pairings have the redundancy of having two puck movers. There is a reason guys like Theodore and Pietrangelo don’t play together. Slavin-Fox would be the best two-way pairing easily. Hughes-McAvoy is also superior to any of Sweden’s pairings because they have the best puck mover and defensive player.

Player chemistry aside they also have superior players.

Karlsson < Fox
Dahlin < Slavin
Lindholm < McAvoy
Hedman = Hughes

Lol what…

 

[amnesiac]

1st picks are supposed to lift their team's performance. Buffalo hasn't been any better since Dahlin arrived. Colorado went from historically bad team (year before) to Elite team during Makar's first year

historically bad? they made the playoffs and eliminated 1st seed Calgary

But of course he made them better, Tyson Barrie was their 1D in 18-19..... if Dahlin replaced Makar this season, youre replacing a franchise D with a franchise D. No he isnt as good as Makar, but hed be good enough to replace him well enough to make another Cup run, imo.

 

[Sabresruletheschool]

1st picks are supposed to lift their team's performance. Buffalo hasn't been any better since Dahlin arrived. Colorado went from historically bad team (year before) to Elite team during Makar's first year

Wait a second. Wasn't Colorado in the playoffs before Markar ever played? That's historically bad? And he was 21 years old. Now Dahlin was on a historically bad team at the age where kids are still in high school. How can you even compare the two situations? Dahlin came to Buffalo at 18 never playing a pro game in his life on the worst team in the league. For an 18 year old on a circus of a team, he did pretty darn good.

 

[Beerz]

Wait a second. Wasn't Colorado in the playoffs before Markar ever played? That's historically bad? And he was 21 years old. Now Dahlin was on a historically bad team at the age where kids are still in high school. How can you even compare the two situations? Dahlin came to Buffalo at 18 never playing a pro game in his life on the worst team in the league. For an 18 year old on a circus of a team, he did pretty darn good.

You're speaking to a person named Miro4Norris

 

[RapidKnight]

Lol what…

Hughes puts up many more assists. Even this season the least favorable sample size he still has a higher assists/GP. He is also the best puck carrier. So what is the argument for Hughes not being a better puck mover? Goals =/= puck moving.

 

[Ben White]

Hughes puts up many more assists. Even this season the least favorable sample size he still has a higher assists/GP. He is also the best puck carrier. So what is the argument for Hughes not being a better puck mover? Goals =/= puck moving.

No… he is definitely not a better puck mover than Karlsson. How many Shark’s game have you watched. I’ve watched like 50% of all Canucks games since Hughes entered the league. Hughes is a great puck mover, top 5 puck moving D in the league, but not particularly close to current Karlsson. I’d say Dahlin is ahead of Hughes also in that department.

 

[RapidKnight]

No… he is definitely not a better puck mover than Karlsson. How many Shark’s game have you watched. I’ve watched like 50% of all Canucks games since Hughes entered the league. Hughes is a great puck mover, top 5 puck moving D in the league, but not particularly close to current Karlsson. I’d say Dahlin is ahead of Hughes also in that department.

Karlsson has x4 as many even strength giveaways than Hughes. He is more high risk and flashier but that doesn’t he is better. Hughes is unrivaled in terms as safe dependable puck moving. This is dated but it shows his dominance in the passing department:

 

[Ben White]

Karlsson has x4 as many even strength giveaways than Hughes. He is more high risk and flashier but that doesn’t he is better. Hughes is unrivaled in terms as safe dependable puck moving. This is dated but it shows his dominance in the passing department:

View attachment 624381

Which usually means that he has the puck about 4 times as much…

The top 10 in givaways in the league includes scrubs such as:
McDavid, Draisaitl, Kucherov, Pastrnak, Malkin, Marner…

 

[34]

Hedman - Karlsson
Lindholm - Dahlin

Morrisey - Makar
Theodore - Pietrangelo

Hughes - Fox
Slavin - McAvoy

Morrisey? Hahaha

 

[RapidKnight]

Which usually means that he has the puck about 4 times as much…

The top 10 in givaways in the league includes scrubs such as:
McDavid, Draisaitl, Kucherov, Pastrnak, Malkin, Marner…

Bruh he doesn’t actually have the puck 4 times as much. And if he did wouldn’t it be much easier score more assists.

Never said anyone was a scrub but okay... Giveaways are not perfect but can be used among players with similar ice time and shooting tendencies. I’m sorry the statistics imply Karlsson is being more reckless than Hughes.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Canada surprisingly looks the weakest.

 

[Ben White]

Bruh he doesn’t actually have the puck 4 times as much. And if he did wouldn’t it be much easier score more assists.

Never said anyone was a scrub but okay... Giveaways are not perfect but can be used among players with similar ice time and shooting tendencies. I’m sorry the statistics imply Karlsson is being more reckless than Hughes.

The ”4 times more” was mostly to make a point. But hockey is not basketball, giveaways is not necessarily an indication of recklessness.

More assists? Yeah sure, give EK a Pettersson, a Horvat, a Miller, an OEL etc. along with a decent power play and I’m sure his lead in assists over Hughes would be even bigger. In even strength assists it’s EK 19 vs Hughes 13.

 

[stokes84]

Are people still unaware that Dahlin is the Norris front runner this year?

 

[Asymmetric Solution]

You're speaking to a person named Miro4Norris

Biggest Dahlin hater since day 1

 

[Ben White]

Are people still unaware that Dahlin is the Norris front runner this year?

Don’t think he’s ahead of Karlsson

 

[stokes84]

Don’t think he’s ahead of Karlsson

Karlsson has 4 more points than Dahlin in two more games played, but he’s a -6 whereas Dahlin is a +16. I think when you factor in that Dahlin has become one of the best two way defenseman in the game, that he’s not just an offensive dynamo, it would be crazy to justify putting Karlsson ahead of him based on a couple of points.

 

[Miro4Norris]

Wait a second. Wasn't Colorado in the playoffs before Markar ever played? That's historically bad? And he was 21 years old. Now Dahlin was on a historically bad team at the age where kids are still in high school. How can you even compare the two situations? Dahlin came to Buffalo at 18 never playing a pro game in his life on the worst team in the league. For an 18 year old on a circus of a team, he did pretty darn good.

Avalanche 2017 team was historically bad, 48 points in a regular season! Avs made playoffs in 2018 by 1 point difference but it's not like avs were a good team before him. Elite players elevate their teams

 

[Lawzy]

Karlsson has 4 more points than Dahlin in two more games played, but he’s a -6 whereas Dahlin is a +16. I think when you factor in that Dahlin has become one of the best two way defenseman in the game, that he’s not just an offensive dynamo, it would be crazy to justify putting Karlsson ahead of him based on a couple of points.

Pretty disingenuous argument. Context matters.

Karlsson, as a defenseman, is leading one of the lowest scoring teams in the NHL (21st) in scoring by 8 points and has zero PPG players (with one knocking at the door) to help drive that offense. Dahlin, on the other hand, is 13 points behind Thompson in scoring on the highest scoring team in the NHL and has an additional 2 more players (with one knocking at the door) above PPG.

Yes, Dahlin is a huge reason that Buffalo is excelling offensively but, unlike Karlsson, he also has much more to work with. Raw (offensive) numbers simply don't tell the full story here.

I definitely agree that Dahlin has been significantly better defensively but I'd hesitate to say it bridges that gap currently. Certainly debatable though.


OP:

This season, I definitely take Sweden given how their top 4 has performed. If you asked me last year I would have said USA and I'd probably still take them moving forward. I think there are better choices for defensemen (excluding Makar) for Canada but even then they're a distant third IMO.

 

[Sabresruletheschool]

Avalanche 2017 team was historically bad, 48 points in a regular season! Avs made playoffs in 2018 by 1 point difference but it's not like avs were a good team before him. Elite players elevate their teams

He joined them in the playoffs. That's not a "historically bad" team he joined. They went from a bad team to the playoffs without him.