Top-100 Hockey Players of All-Time - Round 2, Vote 3

[MXD]

... I'm not even editing out the dates since I like to think of Howie Morenz playing hockey a thousand years ago.

 

[overpass]

Jagr's 1992 playoffs have been mentioned as a good run for him, but it was probably even better than the raw point totals would suggest. Jagr wasn't a regular on the power play at that point, as the top 5 Penguins on the PP were Stevens, Lemieux, Tocchet, Francis, and Murphy. Jagr led the playoffs in even strength goals and points, scoring at a Mario-esque rate from the second line. And he wasn't being carried by Ron Francis either, as Jagr outproduced him at even strength that playoffs and also in the regular season.

1992 Playoffs Even Strength Points

Player	Team	GP	EVP	PPP
Jaromir Jagr	PIT	21	19	5
Kevin Stevens	PIT	21	15	13
Chris Chelios	CHI	18	15	6
Mario Lemieux	PIT	15	14	18
Ron Francis	PIT	21	14	12
Joe Murphy	EDM	16	14	10
Jeremy Roenick	CHI	18	14	8

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

1992 Playoffs Even Strength Goals

Player	Team	GP	EVG	PPG
Jaromir Jagr	PIT	21	9	2
Kevin Stevens	PIT	21	9	4
Jeremy Roenick	CHI	18	8	4
Dirk Graham	CHI	18	7	1
Cliff Ronning	VAN	13	7	0
Ron Francis	PIT	21	6	2
Mario Lemieux	PIT	15	6	8
Pavel Bure	VAN	13	6	0

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Jagr was actually among the top even strength scorers in the 1991-92 and 1992-93 regular seasons, but this was masked by the fact that he wasn't a power play regular. When you combine those two seasons, Mario was in a league of his own, and then Jagr was right there with the rest of the top scorers in even strength points (as well as Gary Roberts -- wtf?). Jagr outscored Ron Francis by 54! points at even strength over those two seasons combined and was clearly driving the bus on his line.

Rank	Player	GP	EVP	EVP/G	PPP
1	Mario Lemieux	124	170	1.37	102
2	Steve Yzerman	163	153	0.94	68
3	Kevin Stevens	152	148	0.97	86
4	Adam Oates	164	139	0.85	98
5	Pierre Turgeon	160	139	0.87	87
6	Luc Robitaille	164	136	0.83	92
7	Jaromir Jagr	151	131	0.87	31
8	Alexander Mogilny	144	129	0.90	81
9	Pat Lafontaine	141	128	0.91	111
10	Gary Roberts	134	126	0.94	39
11	Mark Recchi	164	124	0.76	90
12	Mark Messier	154	122	0.79	63
13	Doug Gilmour	161	119	0.74	88
14	Craig Janney	162	118	0.73	75
15	Vincent Damphousse	164	115	0.70	65
72	Ron Francis	154	77	0.50	64

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Just keep in mind that Jagr may deserve some more credit for the length of his prime and for his 1992 playoff than you would think at first glance.

 

[VanIslander]

Drury gets a ton of **** because of his contract with the Rangers. But **** - it's the Rangers. They're going to overpay for a FA.

Indeed.

Just look at Bobby Holik.

He went from hero to zero on HfBoards the very minute he signed that huge contract with the Rags. I remember the switch vividly. Posters used to RAVE about him. After, only mockery.

 

[The Macho King]

... I'm not even editing out the dates since I like to think of Howie Morenz playing hockey a thousand years ago.

The Norse division was so weak in that era though. I think it was the mass conversion to Christianity that's inflating Morenz's stats.

 

[ImporterExporter]

First liners in in that era were just not playing shutdown -- and if they were, then it's because there were other issues in their game.

This is not entirely correct but those players are yet to be up for discussion.

Put it this way. I think Morenz was probably capable of being a shutdown player but he wasn't deployed in that manner much. BUT, others, Nighbor (the only one I'll name) was and it's not like Nighbor was void of offensive skill and ability. Most of what you read about Morenz was that he back checked often/hard. But there is little in the way of peers/coaches talking about any sort of dominance there. Others who were very good offensively were also capable and used to shut down other stars and have much written about them in that regard.

 

[VanIslander]

The Norse division was so weak in that era though. I think it was the mass conversion to Christianity that's inflating Morenz's stats.

Did Espen Knutsen play in that division?

Give the Norse trophy to Mats Zuccarello.

 

[MXD]

This is not entirely correct but those players are yet to be up for discussion.

Put it this way. I think Morenz was probably capable of being a shutdown player but he wasn't deployed in that manner much. BUT, others, Nighbor (the only one I'll name) was and it's not like Nighbor was void of offensive skill and ability. Most of what you read about Morenz was that he back checked often/hard. But there is little in the way of peers/coaches talking about any sort of dominance there. Others who were very good offensively were also capable and used to shut down other stars and have much written about them in that regard.

If you were deployed in pure shutdown capacities in the 60 mins shift era, either you were very well surrounded, either you lacked the offensive skill to attack instead of defending. That is very obvious.

 

[bobholly39]

After comparing the numbers of Crosby, Jagr and Ovechkin at the knockout stage of best-on-best international tournaments earlier in this thread I decided to also take a look at the numbers of the other available players here. The ones who played in an era with best-on-best tournaments available to them that is. Now the sample sizes are obviously small but I still think that it is interesting and worthwhile to do since I personally consider the knockout stage at best-on-best international tournaments to have been the highest level of competition available to players over the last 40 or so years. With this said it is not as if I base my rankings in this project that much on how the players did in the knockout stage of best-on-best tournaments but if the overall resume of two players are close to each other it is something that I could look at as deciding factor along with the overall "clutch" play of the player.

Potvin
Canada Cup 1976: 2 gp, 1 g, 3 a, 4 pts
Canada Cup 1981: 2 gp, 0 g, 1 a, 1 pts
Total at best-on-best tournaments knockout stage: 4 gp, 1 g, 4 a, 5 pts
Total at best-on-best tournaments overall: 14 gp, 3 g, 13 a, 16 pts

Bourque
Canada Cup 1981: 2 gp, 0 g, 0 a, 0 pts
Canada Cup 1984: 3 gp, 0 g, 1 a, 1 pts
Canada Cup 1987: 4 gp, 1 g, 2 a, 3 pts
Olympics 1998: 3 gp, 0 g, 1 a, 1 pts
Total at best-on-best tournaments knockout stage: 12 gp, 1 g, 4 a, 5 pts
Total at best-on-best tournaments overall: 30 gp, 4 g, 16 a, 20 pts

Messier
Canada Cup 1984: 3 gp, 1 g, 1 a, 2 pts
Canada Cup 1987: 4 gp, 0 g, 2 a, 2 pts
Canada Cup 1991: 3 gp, 2 g, 3 a, 5 pts
World Cup 1996: 3 gp, 0 g, 1 a, 1 pts
Total at best-on-best tournaments knockout stage: 13 gp, 3 g, 7 a, 10 pts
Total at best-on-best tournaments overall: 32 gp, 6 g, 20 a, 26 pts

Lidström
Canada Cup 1991: 1 gp, 0 g, 0 a, 0 pts
World Cup 1996: 1 gp, 0 g, 0 a, 0 pts
Olympics 1998: 1 gp, 0 g, 0 a, 0 pts
Olympics 2002: 1 gp, 0 g, 1 a, 1 pts
World Cup 2004: 1 gp, 0 g, 0 a, 0 pts
Olympics 2006: 3 gp, 1 g, 3 a, 4 pts
Olympics 2010: 1 gp, 0 g, 0 a, 0 pts
Total at best-on-best tournaments knockout stage: 9 gp, 1 g, 4 a, 5 pts
Total at best-on-best tournaments overall: 34 gp, 8 g, 12 a, 20 pts

Hasek
Canada Cup 1987: 1 gp, 32 saves on 37 shots, 0.865
Olympics 1998: 3 gp, 82 saves on 84 shots, 0.976
Olympics 2002: 1 gp, 26 saves on 27 shots, 0.963
Total at best-on-best tournaments knockout stage: 5 gp, 140 saves on 148 shots, 0.946
Total at best-on-best tournaments overall: 26 gp, 606 saves on 668 shots, 0.907

And here are the numbers of Crosby, Ovechkin and Jagr again. This time with their overall stats included as well.

Jagr
Olympics 1998: 3 gp, 1 g, 1 a, 2 pts
Olympics 2002: 1 gp, 0 g, 0 a, 0 pts
World Cup 2004: 2 gp, 0 g, 0 a, 0 pts
Olympics 2006: 3 gp, 0 g, 2 a, 2 pts
Olympics 2010: 2 gp, 0 g, 0 a, 0 pts
Olympics 2014: 2 gp, 0 g, 1 a, 1 pts
Total at best-on-best tournaments knockout stage: 13 gp, 1 g, 4 a, 5 pts
Total at best-on-best tournaments overall: 41 gp, 12 g, 15 a, 27 pts

Ovechkin
World Cup 2004: 1 gp, 0 g, 0 a, 0 pts
Olympics 2006: 3 gp, 1 g, 0 a, 1 pts
Olympics 2010: 1 gp, 0 g, 0 a, 0 pts
Olympics 2014: 2 gp, 0 g, 0 a, 0 pts
World Cup 2016: 1 gp, 0 g, 0 a, 0 pts
Total at best-on-best tournaments knockout stage: 8 gp, 1 g, 0 a, 1 pts
Total at best-on-best tournaments overall: 23 gp, 10 g, 5 a, 15 pts

Crosby
Olympics 2010: 4 gp, 2 g, 0 a, 2 pts
Olympics 2014: 3 gp, 1 g, 0 a, 1 pts
World Cup 2016: 3 gp, 1 g, 5 a, 6 pts
Total at best-on-best tournaments knockout stage: 10 gp, 4 g, 5 a, 9 pts
Total at best-on-best tournaments overall: 19 gp, 8 g, 12 a, 20 pts

When it comes to their performances at the knockout stage of best-on-best international tournaments the player I would rank first among the available players is Dominik Hasek. His Nagano performance in 1998 when he pretty much turned into a wall during the knockout stage is one the more impressive performances that I have ever seen. Saving 82 out of 84 shots against USA, Canada and Russia is very impressive. Not to mention his shootout performance against Canada.

Next I would probably have Crosby and Potvin. Crosby may not have been overly impressive at the knockout stage in 2010 and 2014 even if he did step up and scored the golden goal in 2010. He really stepped up in 2016 though with a truly remarkable performance where he produced at a very high level all throughout the tournament. Potvin had a very impressive tournament in 1976 and kept producing against a strong Czechoslovakian team in the finals. In 1981 Potvin also had a strong tournament even if he really struggled with the speed of the top Soviet forwards in the final. But that is really the only knock on his best-on-best tournament resume.

Then I would rank the best-on-best resume of Mark Messier. He really had a impressive knockout stage in 1991 and generally put up relatively strong offensive numbers combined with everything else that he brough to the table.

Next up Lidström and Bourque. I had expected Bourque to have stronger numbers during the knockout stage. In fact Bourque was one of the players that regressed the most offensively from the group stage (15 pts in 18 gp) to the knockout stage (5 pts in 12 gp). So somewhat surprisingly to me Lidström was more productive offensively on a per game basis. On the other hand most of Lidströms offensive production came during his very strong 2006 Olympic tournament and outside of that tournament Lidström and Tre Kronor experienced many heartbreaking losses. Still overall the best-on-best resumes of these two are probably on a pretty similar level.

Next I have Jagr whose best-on-best resume is rather average for a player of his quality. Both at the knockout stage and overall. Like I mentioned earlier I think that Jagr having by far the least support offensively on the national team (out of the players in this round) can help explain his somewhat average numbers to some degree. When including the group stage Jagr actually does have the most points scored in best-on-best tournaments out of the players in this round with 27 but that is rather a testiment to his longevity than anything else.

As I mentioned in my previous post I find Ovechkins numbers to be very underwhelming. Especially his regression from the group stage (14 pts in 15 gp) to the knockout stage (1 pts in 8 gp). His weak knockout stage numbers is also what in my opinion makes Ovechkins best-on-best resume the clearly weakest out of the players in this round.

Even if they already are on the list here are Gretzkys and Lemieuxs best-on-best numbers at the knockout stage. Just for fun.

Gretzky
Canada Cup 1981: 2 gp, 0 g, 1 a, 1 pts
Canada Cup 1984: 3 gp, 2 g, 3 a, 5 pts
Canada Cup 1987: 4 gp, 1 g, 10 a, 11 pts
Canada Cup 1991: 2 gp, 1 g, 1 a, 2 pts
World Cup 1996: 4 gp, 0 g, 2 a, 2 pts
Olympics 1998: 3 gp, 0 g, 3 a, 3 pts
Total at best-on-best tournaments knockout stage: 18 gp, 4 g, 20 a, 24 pts
Total at best-on-best tournaments overall: 45 gp, 20 g, 48 a, 68 pts

Lemieux
Canada Cup 1987: 4 gp, 6 g, 4 a, 10 pts
Olympics 2002: 3 gp, 0 g, 4 a, 4 pts
World Cup 2004: 3 gp, 1 g, 3 a, 4 pts
Total at best-on-best tournaments knockout stage: 10 gp, 7 g, 11 a, 18 pts
Total at best-on-best tournaments overall: 20 gp, 14 g, 15 a, 29 pts

Fantastic work. Out of curiosity are you doing this manually, or is there a place to easily track this? I tried looking in the past for international results but didn't have as much luck.

HASEK HAS LONGEVITY.

He was an all-star at the 1983 World junior championships.

He represented Czechoslovakia as a 19 year old (youngest national team member ever) in the 1984 Canada Cup.

He won the 1986 Golden Stick as best Czechoslovakian (four times 1986-90).

Then 1990-1993 he had a three-year period of ADJUSTMENT going from behind the Iron Curtain of communism to a radically different life, and facing coach criticism for his 'lack of basics' (his highly unorthodox style) and limited ice time and limited challenging big game pressure (Hasek thrives on pressure - imagine how a race car driver would feel working in a library) stuck behind HHOF Ed Belfour.

Then Hasek played a 40+ game season in Buffalo and thrived from 1983-2002.

So, from 1983 to 2002, ... or even if start at great Czechoslovakian of year award in 1986 to 2002...

THAT IS GREAT LONGEVITY OF HIGH LEVEL PLAY.

Roy was 1986-03
Hasek was 1986-02

The 3-year adjustment is equivalent to injury issues. And please don't penalize a player for what they did as a 40+ year old in Ottawa (after 2002).

The fact is Hasek had 18 minus 3 equals 15 great years... that's longevity.

Plante only has 1955 to 1964.. then a 3-year gap himself!!! (he did not play) then two significant years in St. Louis and Toronto. No one knocks Plante for lack of longevity - no one should knock Hasek either.

To me Hasek has probably.....8-12 relevant seasons at the NHL level? 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 00 (35 games only), 2001, 2002....that's 9 if you include 2000. Then Ottawa years which aren't bad, add 2-3 more. So depending on your criteria for relevant/useful NHL season, he has anywhere from 8 to 12 seasons worth counting.

Bourque has a ton more. Lidstrom too. Even Ovechkin has 13 and Crosby has....11-12 or so.

When I said Hasek's longevity is a bit of a weakness, i wasn't saying compared to Plante, but rather to other players here overall.

The 1990-1993 being an adjustment period. I mean...sure? But you're just justifying it. It's not like i'm saying "let's have it a negative on his resume he couldnt be a #1 goalie". When I say longevity i'm just saying in terms of overall relevant/competitive/mostly full seasons, he lacks longevity vs a lot of players in this round (and last round).

I don't discard the pre-NHL stuff completely - but i don't necessarily give it a lot of weight either. Do you think we should?

If you don't have Fedorov on your list, you and I have literally nothing to talk about.

lol

I don't necessarily disagree but....funny.

 

[Canadiens1958]

HASEK HAS LONGEVITY.

He was an all-star at the 1983 World junior championships.

He represented Czechoslovakia as a 19 year old (youngest national team member ever) in the 1984 Canada Cup.

He won the 1986 Golden Stick as best Czechoslovakian (four times 1986-90).

Then 1990-1993 he had a three-year period of ADJUSTMENT going from behind the Iron Curtain of communism to a radically different life, and facing coach criticism for his 'lack of basics' (his highly unorthodox style) and limited ice time and limited challenging big game pressure (Hasek thrives on pressure - imagine how a race car driver would feel working in a library) stuck behind HHOF Ed Belfour.

Then Hasek played a 40+ game season in Buffalo and thrived from 1983-2002.

So, from 1983 to 2002, ... or even if start at great Czechoslovakian of year award in 1986 to 2002...

THAT IS GREAT LONGEVITY OF HIGH LEVEL PLAY.

Roy was 1986-03
Hasek was 1986-02

The 3-year adjustment is equivalent to injury issues. And please don't penalize a player for what they did as a 40+ year old in Ottawa (after 2002).

The fact is Hasek had 18 minus 3 equals 15 great years... that's longevity.

Plante only has 1955 to 1964.. then a 3-year gap himself!!! (he did not play) then two significant years in St. Louis and Toronto. No one knocks Plante for lack of longevity - no one should knock Hasek either.

Since you do not specify nationality, 1991 CC Lindros was 18. 1984 Tom Barrasso, USA was 19, two months younger with an NHL season under his belt. But this is demonstratably the weakest era in hockey for goalies.

If Hasek gets a valid career from 1986 then Plante's QSHL/AHL career gets included since he was facing tougher competition -Beliveau and other future NHL better then Hasek's Czech league opposition.

Also all ears about the difference between Hasek's 40+ game season in Buffalo and Plante's 40 games seasons during shorter schedules.

 

[Orange Dragon]

Jagr
Olympics 1998: 3 gp, 1 g, 1 a, 2 pts
Olympics 2002: 1 gp, 0 g, 0 a, 0 pts
World Cup 2004: 2 gp, 0 g, 0 a, 0 pts
Olympics 2006: 3 gp, 0 g, 2 a, 2 pts
Olympics 2010: 2 gp, 0 g, 0 a, 0 pts
Olympics 2014: 2 gp, 0 g, 1 a, 1 pts
Total at best-on-best tournaments knockout stage: 13 gp, 1 g, 4 a, 5 pts
Total at best-on-best tournaments overall: 41 gp, 12 g, 15 a, 27 pts

WHC 2005: 3 gp, 0 g, 2 a, 2 pts

9 pts in 8 games while playing with broken pinky.

I think that 2005 was closer to best on best than 2016 world cup of hockey.

 

[Canadiens1958]

To me Hasek has probably.....8-12 relevant seasons at the NHL level? 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 00 (35 games only), 2001, 2002....that's 9 if you include 2000. Then Ottawa years which aren't bad, add 2-3 more. So depending on your criteria for relevant/useful NHL season, he has anywhere from 8 to 12 seasons worth counting.

So one Ottawa season equals 2-3 on the longevity scale.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Even the Golden Sticks for the second half of the 80ies are practically irrelevant (in and of themselves) at this juncture.




... What?



C - .... Morenz (but...)



This is where I have an issue. I'd probably declare a tie between Crosby and Morenz. Like, the actual version of Sidney Crosby would be on par with Morenz.

But Crosby wasn't always that good, and I can't quite ignore this.

The other thing I can't ignore is : I have absolutely no clue as to where was Morenz's defensive play at specific junctures in his career. I have a very general idea about what he was (the image that came to mind is Mike Modano), that's it. I don't know if he was that good in 24 or 1097 or 1931.

This was addressed in the long Morenz post I made. His defensive reputation was already ramping up in the late 1920s.

 

[ImporterExporter]

If you were deployed in pure shutdown capacities in the 60 mins shift era, either you were very well surrounded, either you lacked the offensive skill to attack instead of defending. That is very obvious.

Except it's not sir.

Nighbor, Frank.

Strong offensive game and didn't need to sacrifice that in order to be widely regarded as the greatest defensive forward, of that time and all time.

Most players fit what your saying. But not everyone. That's all.

 

[Captain Bowie]

Seventieslord convinced me to move Shore up a few spots with that great post a few pages back. I believe I was discounting his Hart accomplishments and playoff performances, and even style, too much. Went from behind the Jagr/Ovechkin/Lidstrom clump to immediately ahead of it. So he will likely end up 4th this round.

 

[VanIslander]

I don't discard the pre-NHL stuff completely - but i don't necessarily give it a lot of weight either. Do you think we should

Lol. Yeah. I've detailed his multiple all-star selections at three world championships in the 1980's (three medals for his country), winning games at the 1988 Olympics in Calgary, backstopping a tie against Canada in the 1987 Canada Cup, giving up only goals engineered by Gretzky, Messier, Lemieux and Bourque.

Do we give weight to the pre-NHL play of Soviets? Are there any career Czechoslovakians on top120 lists?

Makarov, Kharlamov, Tretiak, Fetisov, Mikhailov, Firsov... what they did at the world championships will be given weight. Why shouldn't Hasek's three all-star world championships? (Heck. he played AGAINST the mighty Soviets!)

86-90 + 93-02 ... that's 15 years of greatness.

From being the youngest ever Czechoslovakian national team member (1984 Canada Cup) to winning the Stanley Cup 18 years later...

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Drury won the Hobey Baker then won the NHL's Calder trophy.

More importantly, Drury was incredibly clutch as a goal scorer. Like Tikkanen and Stu Barnes on other teams, Drury had the ability to turn on the goal scoring when it mattered most. Drury and Tanguay were young stars, Alex more of a passer.

Drury had 29 game-winning goals over his first 4 NHL years, including 13 playoff winners. In addition, I remember he had key goals to tie games.

BU won the National title when Drury was there. Also his little league team won the LL World Series. I shit you not.

 

[MXD]

Except it's not sir.

Nighbor, Frank.

Strong offensive game and didn't need to sacrifice that in order to be widely regarded as the greatest defensive forward, of that time and all time.

Most players fit what your saying. But not everyone. That's all.

Nighbor's offensive record is also overly inflated due to playing in Ottawa. Last word on topic. Don't imply that I'm lacking in knowledge.

 

[MXD]

Lol. Yeah. I've detailed his multiple all-star selections at three world championships in the 1980's (three medals for his country), winning games at the 1988 Olympics in Calgary, backstopping a tie against Canada in the 1987 Canada Cup, giving up only goals engineered by Gretzky, Messier, Lemieux and Bourque.

Do we give weight to the pre-NHL play of Soviets? Are there any career Czechoslovakians on top120 lists?

Makarov, Kharlamov, Tretiak, Fetisov, Mikhailov, Firsov... what they did at the world championships will be given weight. Why shouldn't Hasek's three all-star world championships? (Heck. he played AGAINST the mighty Soviets!)

86-90 + 93-02 ... that's 15 years of greatness.

From being the youngest ever Czechoslovakian national team member (1984 Canada Cup) to winning the Stanley Cup 18 years later...

You seem to give more credit to what Hasek did in Europe than to what Morenz did pre-consolidation and that's completely asinine.

Par for the course.
Par for your course.
But asinine.

 

[VanIslander]

If Hasek gets a valid career from 1986 then Plante's QSHL/AHL career gets included ...

No way.

You have career non-NHL Soviets on your list (and some participants in this HOH project have one or two career Czechoslovakians), but neither you nor anyone else has a career AHLer!!!!!!!

I cited world championships in the 1980's, the 1984 and 1987 Canada Cups, the 1988 Olympics and his multiple Golden Stick awards in the 1980's as the greatest Czechoslovakian player.

Hasek had 5 all-time great seasons before he left for the NHL.

The fact is 1970s-1980s national team member Soviets and Czechoslovakians were highest level worthy whereas the AHL never was, and is not equivalent.

 

[MXD]

The AHL was (and the QSHL, probably) higher up in the pecking order than the Czech league was, but Hasek played great hockey at the WC's and CC's : Some of them weren't best on best, but WC were still relevant to assess European skaters one against another.

Besides, I don't exactly know why Hasek's European record would be so important at this point. Most people are penalizing him for his diverse idiosyncracies than for his record at face value.

 

[VanIslander]

Note: Like seventieslord's valuing of the WHA years at 0.5 (two great years there equivalent to one in the NHL - a formula I used on Bobby Hull), so I join many on this History board in seeing pre-consolidation NHL And PCHA as a two-seasons-for-one value deal.

 

[Canadiens1958]

No way.

You have career non-NHL Soviets on your list (and some participants in this HOH project have one or two career Czechoslovakians), but neither you nor anyone else has a career AHLer!!!!!!!

I cited world championships in the 1980's, the 1984 and 1987 Canada Cups, the 1988 Olympics and his multiple Golden Stick awards in the 1980's as the greatest Czechoslovakian player.

Hasek had 5 all-time great seasons before he left for the NHL.

The fact is 1970s-1980s national team member Soviets and Czechoslovakians were highest level worthy whereas the AHL never was, and is not equivalent.

How do you know the details of my list? Disturbing.

Yet some played in the AHL and IHL on their way to the NHL.

 

[VanIslander]

Besides, I don't exactly know why Hasek's European record would be so important at this point. Most people are penalizing him for his diverse idiosyncracies than for his record at face value.

It was all about countering someone's claim that Hasek lacked LONGEVITY. That is not true. That is what the arguing was about.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Note: Like seventieslord's valuing of the WHA years at 0.5 (two great years there equivalent to one in the NHL - a formula I used on Bobby Hull), so I join many on this History board in seeing pre-consolidation NHL And PCHA as a two-seasons-for-one value deal.

Points not seasons?

 

[MXD]

It was all about countering someone's claim that Hasek lacked LONGEVITY. That is not true. That is what the arguing was about.

*Duly noted for future reference*