Prospect Info: Tom Willander: 11th Overall 2023 Draft (Rogle BK J20) - Part 02

[Bleach Clean]

i thought Willander actually had higher upside but is more raw and needs more time.

He's suppose to be the best skater (D wise) in his class and has plus IQ, NHL size and is a RHD.

He was considered a 'high floor' pick. He had the tools and defensive IQ.

The upside picks are usually the higher producers.

 

[Brock Boeser Laser Show]

I mean if you go back and watch tape of most 18/19 year old defensemen in college you won't see a lot that stand out. Most college teams are filled with 20-24 year olds so I think people have a bit too lofty expectations for any freshmen defenseman. We are still probably 6/7 years away from Willander entering his prime.

If you go back and watch tape of guys like McAvoy or Toews in college you wouldn't exactly expect what they turned into. It's very much a process that will take time and a few growing pains along the way.

 

[arttk]

He was considered a 'high floor' pick. He had the tools and defensive IQ.

The upside picks are usually the higher producers.

I mean almost all high picks are high floor guys.
High picks tends to be more “ready”, like you expect them to be in the lineup by D+2. I think guys who have tools and needs more dev time don’t get picked as high because of that.

 

[Bleach Clean]

I mean almost all high picks are high floor guys.
High picks tends to be more “ready”, like you expect them to be in the lineup by D+2. I think guys who have tools and needs more dev time don’t get picked as high because of that.

Right, but the high floor/high upside reference is relative to other 1st round picks. Not relative to the entire draft class.

 

[Breakers]

Frozen Four bound

Huge defensive plays in the 3rd like a 2-on-1 break up

Denver is gonna be so tough

 

[arttk]

Right, but the high floor/high upside reference is relative to other 1st round picks. Not relative to the entire draft class.

Wait.. the ceiling for Willander is a 1st paring guy and the floor is a 3(not 3rd paring). That’s pretty high floor/ceiling type of pick to go for at 11. The only thing about him is he was a late riser and needs more time because he is more raw compared to the other prospects.

 

[tyhee]

Tryamkin was a great pick. It was criminal how badly they bungled the handling of him. Of all the dumb things that Dim Jim and green did, not helping this guy was one of the worst. ...

So we're blaming Travis Green for botching the handling of a player he never coached?

 

[ChilliBilly]

So we're blaming Travis Green for botching the handling of a player he never coached?

fair comment. I thought he was the coach at the time, really don't remember. Either way, he was handled badly.

 

[tyhee]

fair comment. I thought he was the coach at the time, really don't remember. Either way, he was handled badly.

I completely agree with you that his handling in Vancouver was botched. In addition to the ways you mentioned, I thought he was better than players higher than him on the depth chart. In view of the reports (which I never saw attributed to anyone nor confirmed) of Lidster pushing him to play like Pronger, I wondered if they were witholding playing time trying to get him to change his playing style more quickly than he was comfortable with.

On the other hand, he didn't star in the KHL which brings into question whether he'd have reached expectations in North America.

When Tryamkin's signing to return to the KHL was announced the thing he was first quoted as complaining about was his playing time. Vancouver Canucks lose Nikita Tryamkin to KHL in sudden, stunning blow to promising defence

About a week after Tryamkin signed with Avtomobilist, Green was promoted to the Canucks' head coaching job.

 

[arttk]

Feels like every D thread is like a couple pages away from Tryamkin talk

 

[ChilliBilly]

I completely agree with you that his handling in Vancouver was botched. In addition to the ways you mentioned, I thought he was better than players higher than him on the depth chart. In view of the reports (which I never saw attributed to anyone nor confirmed) of Lidster pushing him to play like Pronger, I wondered if they were witholding playing time trying to get him to change his playing style more quickly than he was comfortable with.

On the other hand, he didn't star in the KHL which brings into question whether he'd have reached expectations in North America.

When Tryamkin's signing to return to the KHL was announced the thing he was first quoted as complaining about was his playing time. Vancouver Canucks lose Nikita Tryamkin to KHL in sudden, stunning blow to promising defence

About a week after Tryamkin signed with Avtomobilist, Green was promoted to the Canucks' head coaching job.

It really would have been interesting to have seen what he could do. He had two great assets. Size and skating. Never really got a feel about the rest of his game. Vision. Passing. Shot. Ice IQ. The fact that he has been apparently rather pedestrian in the KHL suggests that he may not have done much. But pissed that we didnt get to find out.

 

[krutovsdonut]

we have zadorov now. that is more or less tryamkin's ceiling maybe more. whatever talents he may have had, tryamkin has coasted on them and his size his entire career and i am not in the least persuaded it was due to "mishandling" him that we could not get more. he was not a guy i would classify as motivated, and i am sure lidster has a different more nuanced version of the pronger video tory to share. we're talking about a guy who showed up to camp out of shape and was reportedly not popular with his teammates and who trashed not only the team but the city on his way out the door, versus doug lidster, still one of the best dmen to wear a canuck uniform and a guy with a serious motor who gave it everything for us on the ice. it takes a supreme level of benning derangement syndrome to assume the flakey lazy guy who never played another nhl game was hard done by in this scenario.

 

[ihaveyuidonttouchme]

I still remember they were trying to double down on Tryamkin for a new guy(may have been phillip larsen....someone corect me here) . I can't remember who they recently acquired and wanted to make room for, so they claimed he was not physically ready, among other random excuses, to cut him early to get the new guy in, despite having a successful first pro season.

That irritated me a lot, and the new guy only lasted a fraction of what Tryamkin would've done.

 

[Vector]

*looks around*

Huh, I'm in the Willander thread. As far as I can tell he was draft by Patrik Allvin out of Sweden and is playing in the NCAA. Doesn't seem to have anything to do with a rather large Russian guy. Maybe let's stick to Tom Willander talk and stop pulling threads far off topic?

This is a rhetorical question. Please stay on topic.

 

[ChilliBilly]

*looks around*

Huh, I'm in the Willander thread. As far as I can tell he was draft by Patrik Allvin out of Sweden and is playing in the NCAA. Doesn't seem to have anything to do with a rather large Russian guy. Maybe let's stick to Tom Willander talk and stop pulling threads far off topic?

This is a rhetorical question. Please stay on topic.

Guilty as charged. Will do penance. And I think Willander has a chance to be the best Canucks d man ever, (well except Hughes, who has pretty much got that sewed up).

 

[Diversification]

Guilty as charged. Will do penance. And I think Willander has a chance to be the best Canucks d man ever, (well except Hughes, who has pretty much got that sewed up).

I get Dan Hamhuis vibes from what I’ve seen so far, which would be a great outcome for where he was drafted.

 

[arttk]

I get Dan Hamhuis vibes from what I’ve seen so far, which would be a great outcome for where he was drafted.

Surprised to learn that Dan spent 2 season in the A and ended up like .8ppg there.
Do wonder if Tom has that much offense in him and if we need to give him like time in the A to develop that

 

[MS]

Surprised to learn that Dan spent 2 season in the A and ended up like .8ppg there.

He was a late birthdate who played one more year of junior and one year in the AHL before walking into the NHL as a 22 minute/game top pairing defender in his draft+3. He probably should have won the Calder that year or at least been a finalist but he finished 11th because voters are stupid and think a rookie winger scoring 40 soft 2nd line points is better than a rookie D playing top-pairing minutes and scoring 25 points.

The the 04-05 lockout happened and Nashville sent him back to the AHL to get him game action, as teams were able to do with guys at that stage of their careers - same thing as Bergeron and Staal.

 

[arttk]

He was a late birthdate who played one more year of junior and one year in the AHL before walking into the NHL as a 22 minute/game top pairing defender in his draft+3. He probably should have won the Calder that year or at least been a finalist but he finished 11th because voters are stupid and think a rookie winger scoring 40 soft 2nd line points is better than a rookie D playing top-pairing minutes and scoring 25 points.

The the 04-05 lockout happened and Nashville sent him back to the AHL to get him game action, as teams were able to do with guys at that stage of their careers - same thing as Bergeron and Staal.

Feels like the lockout really did that 03 draft class a lot of good. It’s kinda sad the NHL didn’t learn anything from it, giving more time to prospects to develop leads to good results.

Also a reason why I am a fan of letting Willander develop. Getting him in 1 year faster is pretty meaningless if we trading off a lower ceiling.

 

[VanJack]

Can't beat the experience Wilander is gaining this season.....a key contributor to Sweden's run to the finals of the World Jr. Hockey Championships. And now playing an important role with BU in the NCAA Frozen Four.

Big games, where every mistake is magnified. If nothing else, Wilander comes back next year a far better player both physically and mentally.

 

[StreetHawk]

Feels like the lockout really did that 03 draft class a lot of good. It’s kinda sad the NHL didn’t learn anything from it, giving more time to prospects to develop leads to good results.

Also a reason why I am a fan of letting Willander develop. Getting him in 1 year faster is pretty meaningless if we trading off a lower ceiling.

Well, it runs counter to what some would say "get guys cheap on ELC", which you burn a year in the AHL. But, long run probably better off. Rare for most kids to give you 3 good ELC years at the NHL level. Most need AHL time and thus burns the year(s) off the ELC.

 

[arttk]

Well, it runs counter to what some would say "get guys cheap on ELC", which you burn a year in the AHL. But, long run probably better off. Rare for most kids to give you 3 good ELC years at the NHL level. Most need AHL time and thus burns the year(s) off the ELC.

The league is filled with guys ruined or not meet their draft projection by being rushed.

 

[StreetHawk]

The league is filled with guys ruined or not meet their draft projection by being rushed.

Early and into chaos. That's why I'm not a fan geting kids into the lineup after 20 good AHL games. Did not like how MTL handled Roy this season after a good almost 30 games in the A in his first pro season. These kids now have missed time in their teens due to Covid, so better to give them time to work on their game.

If the NHL club is terrible, maybe best to have a really young kid in the A instead, especially if that A club is doing well.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Can't beat the experience Wilander is gaining this season.....a key contributor to Sweden's run to the finals of the World Jr. Hockey Championships. And now playing an important role with BU in the NCAA Frozen Four.

Big games, where every mistake is magnified. If nothing else, Wilander comes back next year a far better player both physically and mentally.

Can never win with some people.

A productive Willy being taken for granted. Willy that even produces in the Boston cold.

Instead they'd rather beat Willy just to make them feel better.

I mean it might start off feeling good but then after awhile, it's just painful.

Be thankfully we have a Willy that people are envious of.

 

[Breakers]

Can't beat the experience Wilander is gaining this season.....a key contributor to Sweden's run to the finals of the World Jr. Hockey Championships. And now playing an important role with BU in the NCAA Frozen Four.

Big games, where every mistake is magnified. If nothing else, Wilander comes back next year a far better player both physically and mentally.

That was hands down the best pairing in the tournament
Thats who you hope for the type of d-man he'd be paired with

Hutson is very tough to play with
Webber is the defensive low possession old school type
celebrini is a JAG who doesnt really know what he is yet
Lindstein played the perfect offensive driver, but not full blown rover like hutson.