What exactly is there that shows that Marleau isn't a top six player? His time is obviously there. His production is still there. His effectiveness is still there for that standard. He's not producing at the levels of Marleau from yesteryear but he's still top six easily especially given the factors that have gone into his usage and who he is playing with. If Marleau is playing with Couture and Donskoi the entire year, even this year, his even strength production increases dramatically. And I wouldn't even be mad if they relegated him to the 3rd line if they use that 3rd line like they did with Couture and Donskoi this year. I think a line like Goldobin-Marleau-Ward can work significantly better in a more sheltered role just like other lines can.
Timo Meier (9th overall)
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What exactly is there that shows that Marleau isn't a top six player? His time is obviously there. His production is still there. His effectiveness is still there for that standard. He's not producing at the levels of Marleau from yesteryear but he's still top six easily especially given the factors that have gone into his usage and who he is playing with. If Marleau is playing with Couture and Donskoi the entire year, even this year, his even strength production increases dramatically. And I wouldn't even be mad if they relegated him to the 3rd line if they use that 3rd line like they did with Couture and Donskoi this year. I think a line like Goldobin-Marleau-Ward can work significantly better in a more sheltered role just like other lines can.
spintheblackcircle
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No, it is not. He is 6th in even strength scoring, and that's just because Couture got hurt and Donskoi wasn't trusted as much early in the season. Offensively, he's not top 6 on this team and shouldn't be on the 1st PP unit anymore
You can't honestly believe that if Couture was healthy the whole season and it didn't force them to alter lines that his even strength scoring would be so low. He absolutely should be on the top PP unit as well. He produces well there and provides something that nobody else on this team would do as well in the same spot with zone entries. If anyone should be on the bubble of the top unit, it should be Couture.
Marleau doesn't drive possession like a lot of other top Sharks forwards. Marleau does his best when he can float around the slot and get his shot off. I don't think he's changed much at all as a player, I just think he's trying to play a style that doesn't suit him. He needs to be with two guys who can do the board work for him, like Ward and Hertl. He's a shooter, he needs to play with guys who can get him shots. He's not great at generating them for himself off of cycles. If he's in the role he's best suited for I think he easily gets back up to 30 goals.
Juxtaposer
Outro: Divina Comedia
Trading replaceable players like Karlsson, Nieto, or Wingels to make room for promisinf talented rookies is one thing. Trading an established scorer like Patrick Marleau is a whole different thing. I get that people aren't super happy with is play this season, and I'm not either. But trading him unless it is SPECIFICALLY for the purpose of getting cap space to acquire an important player we may not otherwise be able to, trading Marleau is dumb.
I guarantee you, if we traded him, we would not get anything good back. Again, look at the Patrick Sharp tradr this past summer. Marleau does not have much value right now, and while he's expensive, he is at the VERY least a good top-9 scorer who can play center or wing, can play tough minutes in all situations, and has a long history with this team that should not be disregarded. I know I for one would be very sad not to see him score his 1000th point or 500th goal in teal. I doubt DW would trade him just for the sake of trading him. The only way he goes is because he wants out or as a cap dump to aid a specific addition that will significantly improve the team.
Another thing is that he has been utilized very poorly this year. Exceptionally poorly. He is not a top-6 center when his wingers are Matt Nieto, Joel Ward, Melker Karlsson, or Tommy Wingels. He should not be playing center on a shutdown line. He should not be aging hard minutes of his wingers are not legitimate two-way top-6 threats. I'm not absolving Marleau of his weak play this year, but he has been set up to fail. He works best as a tough minutes winger who can pop goals and be responsible defensively. At this point in his career, he cannot be The Guy on a top-6 scoring line. I realize this is disappointing given how he's performed for most of his career and for how much he is paid, but the team has to work around that and optimize the players we have as best as we can, and using Marleau the way he has been used this season is very suboptimal.
Timo Time
73-9
I'm not of the majority that wants him traded.
It's simply just of my opinion that if the opportunity presented itself like you said above, to acquire said important player. I just don't know who that player would be as of right now but if names start to float around once the season ends, then we can make some judgement.
In terms of his current role, he is being utilized poorly. But to me, the player he's known to be should be able to thrive in any role the coaches use him in. I also think he should be removed from the first PP unit. I think a guy like Donskoi would be better there right now.
There's little things in Marleau's game that are still vital to how this team functions but it's becoming far and few between. His speed is still there, his defensive game is still prevalent, but a guy like Patrick who's scoring is depleting at a rapid rate starts the validity of growing concern in his game.
Helistin
Dustin's equilibrium
5.5 million for zone entries. Sounds like a bargain. 
Think Marleau will most likely have a alight bounce-back season next year since it's a contract year.
Maybe he could be worth something at the next years deadline if he waives.
Think Marleau will most likely have a alight bounce-back season next year since it's a contract year.
Maybe he could be worth something at the next years deadline if he waives.
I don't think he's been set up to fail this year. DeBoer seems to have more of a focus on getting the best balance of three quality lines that he can given the talent he has available to him. And after looking at what they have and what a coach would look to do with them, it's easy to come to the conclusion that a Marleau-Ward duo should be the guys playing shutdown minutes over Thornton's line and any third line combination we've had this year. The problem is just that the talent didn't match up well enough to keep Marleau as productive as he has been in years past. He needs a playmaker and while Nieto and Tierney are that to some degree, they're not going to win matchups against top level competition.
If Marleau was in Hertl's spot all year, he'd already have 30 goals easily. It's all about figuring out what you want to get out of Marleau these days. If you want him in shutdown minutes, that's fine. He can hold his own there but he's not going to produce. If you want him to produce, you have to put him with guys that can help drive possession and make plays. I don't think you could put Couture or Pavs in the same situation and expect significantly better production. Even Thornton would have issues playing with that type of setup but he'd likely do better because of his ability to hold onto pucks and make plays.
If Marleau was in Hertl's spot all year, he'd already have 30 goals easily. It's all about figuring out what you want to get out of Marleau these days. If you want him in shutdown minutes, that's fine. He can hold his own there but he's not going to produce. If you want him to produce, you have to put him with guys that can help drive possession and make plays. I don't think you could put Couture or Pavs in the same situation and expect significantly better production. Even Thornton would have issues playing with that type of setup but he'd likely do better because of his ability to hold onto pucks and make plays.
Episkey
Nitrox
I agree that it would definitely be higher, but right now his even strength points/60 is ninth out of Sharks forwards with at least 500 minutes played. That is terrible. Karlsson and Wingels are ahead of him, and I don't see them playing with legit top-6 talent on a regular basis either. Marleau's production this season has not been good away from the PP.
5.5 million for zone entries. Sounds like a bargain.
Think Marleau will most likely have a alight bounce-back season next year since it's a contract year.
Maybe he could be worth something at the next years deadline if he waives.
You're not paying attention enough if you think PP zone entries are the only thing he brings. Besides that, zone entries are pretty damn significant for a power play that is in the top five especially when nobody else would be able to be as effective as him since nobody has his speed and size to pull it off. But beyond that, he's still producing on the power play. He's playing shutdown minutes and doing well with what he's been given. He still helps kill penalties. He still is a 20 goal scorer at a bare minimum in almost the worst type of usage for a player of his skills.
If they wanted him to be a more productive scorer, they'd have put him with teammates better suited for that goal. They obviously have other ideas in mind to help the team win games and it's been working on the whole of it.
How much time do each of those guys get to play with Couture or Thornton compared to Marleau this season? I'd bet they get more time because their spot in the lineup is more flexible than Marleau's. Look at Marleau's linemates on a regular basis and the way they are used and you will see why his production isn't good away from the PP. He plays very rarely with someone that has a high offensive acumen. If Marleau had historically been a playmaker type, this argument wouldn't hold much water but that's never been who he is. Goal scorers need setup guys to optimize their ability to score goals. Marleau hasn't had any of that all year except on the power play.
spintheblackcircle
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I very much doubt that unless you expect him to vault into being the most productive goal scorer on the top unit. Pavs only has 11 power play goals on the year as the top goal scorer on the unit. Difference between him and Hertl is 8 PPG's. Even if Hertl got that total, he'd only have 27 goals. However, chances are that he would probably split that difference.
Limekiller
Registered User
As far as trading Marleau is concerned, we still don't know how badly he wants out. That whole "permission for his agent to seek a trade" thing is still out there, and hasn't been shut down. It is certainly entirely possible that he still wants out. If so, that's something I suspect Wilson would do by the draft.
Juxtaposer
Outro: Divina Comedia
That whole permission for his agent to seek a trade thing was never really confirmed either.
Limekiller
Registered User
Eh, LeBrun reported it. He's one of the hockey media that I tend to believe implicitly if he's reporting something. Some others, sure, it could have been wild speculation. But I don't think LeBrun would make a statement like that if he didn't have confirmation from multiple sources about it. So yeah, even if the team didn't confirm it, I believe it was a real request.
And yeah, this should probably get moved out of the Timo thread.
Harbessix
Registered User
spintheblackcircle
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http://www.chl.ca/article/huskies-timo-meier-named-chl-player-of-the-week
Timo named CHL player of the week
Timo named CHL player of the week
Juxtaposer
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The Nemesis
Semper Tyrannus
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Gene Parmesan
Dedicated to babies who came feet first
Juxtaposer
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6 shots (3 "dangerous shots"), but an even on the game. The assist was on the PP. So that's kinda really disappointing that he wasn't even on the ice for any other goals. But not really a big deal. I think it'll be more interesting to see how Meier does against actual good teams, especially the top OHL and WHL teams.
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