Islanders Point Blank: THW rank Leddy 9th best DMan in NHL.

[islandermaniac]

Just because Leddy scored 20 points in the final 27 games does not mean he was on pace for 60 points.. It means it was a nice hot streak he was having. All players go through this.

Ugh... I'm well aware that 20 points in 27 games is not a full season, BUT IT IS a 60 point PACE.

 

[YearlyLottery]

Ugh... I'm well aware that 20 points in 27 games is not a full season, BUT IT IS a 60 point PACE.

And during the course of the season players like Bailey get on hot streaks. Can Leddy score 60 points in a season? Sure he is NOT lacking the skill, but it isn't like he just turned it on the last 27 games. He played well all season and he was probably just getting some more puck luck during this span.

 

[Sorge Georos]

Your personal "eye test" is not evidence of anything. We've all watched Leddy play too. And advanced stats are subject to interpretation and debate. Like I said, not a wit of evidence in your posts. Just a snitty attitude and somehow holding up your personal hometown evaluation to be truth

I apologize that your criticisms have zero substance.

As flawed as the "eye test" argument is, what else do you expect me to provide (aside from advanced stats)?

 

[islandermaniac]

And during the course of the season players like Bailey get on hot streaks. Can Leddy score 60 points in a season? Sure he is NOT lacking the skill, but it isn't like he just turned it on the last 27 games. He played well all season and he was probably just getting some more puck luck during this span.

Well if it was only a hot streak, he had the best hot streak of any dman on the team. And I disagree with your take. I think he posts career bests this year.

 

[GrandmaSlices51631]

Well if it was only a hot streak, he had the best hot streak of any dman on the team. And I disagree with your take. I think he posts career bests this year.

I don't, I think he puts up high 40's this season. I think he will post career bests in a few years once he's reached his full potential and the divisional rivals goaltenders are trending down (Rask & Hank).

 

[islandermaniac]

I don't, I think he puts up high 40's this season. I think he will post career bests in a few years once he's reached his full potential and the divisional rivals goaltenders are trending down (Rask & Hank).

Career bests thus far...as in, the best he has posted at this point in his career.

 

[Darth Milbury]

I apologize that your criticisms have zero substance.

As flawed as the "eye test" argument is, what else do you expect me to provide (aside from advanced stats)?

That's exactly my point. You complain about others not having "evidence" and having zero substance to their posts. Then, when asked for evidence yourself, your only comment is that you watched the player and read an article on a blog site reporting advanced statistics.

Zero evidence in your posts, zero analysis, no systematic thought whatsoever.

Your own "eye test" is no more convincing than anybody else's "eye test." We've all watched Leddy and we all have opinions. I wouldn't say my opinion is any better than yours, but I don't see the reason to declare you king.

You offer up your eyeballs as "evidence" and claim that there is "substance" to your personal hometown fan take which is based primarily on watching a player on TV and reading blogs. You then expect everybody to bow to that opinion, and respond with snide attacks when others are skeptical.

Its weak stuff, and not convincing in the least.

 

[Lame Lambert]

I apologize that your criticisms have zero substance.

As flawed as the "eye test" argument is, what else do you expect me to provide (aside from advanced stats)?

His height and weight

 

[Darth Milbury]

His height and weight

Yeah, that's what it all comes down to. The fact that he doesn't dominate in end of the ice whatsoever is irrelevant.

He's smart in his own end, and poised as hell, but he has not physical game, gets overpowered down low, and can be beat. He's a fantastic skater, carries the puck well, and has good zone entry. But, I don't see the overpowering set of offensive skills that would mark a high end offensive guy.


Despite the homerism here, and the snide dismissive comments from guys like you and the poster above, you're talking about a very solid 2/3 guy. I think the end product will be something along the lines of Glen Edler, solid two-way guy who gets maybe 30 - 40 points a year. Hell of a valuable guy, just not a star.

Leddy, like Boychuk and Hamonic, is a very good defensemen who we are extremely lucky to have on the team. He's simply a solid skating defensemen who has developed into a true top four guy in the NHL.

What he is not is a elite guy (or even semi-elite), a top 20 defender, a true number one, or any of that hyperbole. He's probably not even the best defensemen on the Island - at the very least that is debatable. When we had a poll on the board, maybe 50% of the voters picked Boychuk or Hamonic.

You guys are acting like some of the fanboys on the main site who want to spin every above average guy on their team to be a star.

The Isles had a bottom third defense in the NHL last season. They also had one of the worst PKs in the league. I think Cappy should be blamed for some of that, but at the end of the day our defense is not getting the job done. Leddy, like Boychuk and Hamonic, is just not a true number one, and that's part of the problem.

 

[Lame Lambert]

Yeah, that's what it all comes down to. The fact that he doesn't dominate in end of the ice whatsoever is irrelevant.

He's smart in his own end, and poised as hell, but he has not physical game, gets overpowered down low, and can be beat. He's a fantastic skater, carries the puck well, and has good zone entry. But, I don't see the overpowering set of offensive skills that would mark a high end offensive guy.


Despite the homerism here, and the snide dismissive comments from guys like you and the poster above, you're talking about a very solid 2/3 guy. I think the end product will be something along the lines of Glen Edler, solid two-way guy who gets maybe 30 - 40 points a year. Hell of a valuable guy, just not a star.

Leddy, like Boychuk and Hamonic, is a very good defensemen who we are extremely lucky to have on the team. He's simply a solid skating defensemen who has developed into a true top four guy in the NHL.

What he is not is a elite guy (or even semi-elite), a top 20 defender, a true number one, or any of that hyperbole. He's probably not even the best defensemen on the Island - at the very least that is debatable. When we had a poll on the board, maybe 50% of the voters picked Boychuk or Hamonic.

You guys are acting like some of the fanboys on the main site who want to spin every above average guy on their team to be a star.

The Isles had a bottom third defense in the NHL last season. They also had one of the worst PKs in the league. I think Cappy should be blamed for some of that, but at the end of the day our defense is not getting the job done. Leddy, like Boychuk and Hamonic, is just not a true number one, and that's part of the problem.

That wasn't even directed at you, it was a general statement about how some people value the size of a defenseman over what he actually does on the ice. I don't know if you're one of those people and I honestly don't care.

 

[BroadwayJay*]

The Isles had a bottom third defense in the NHL last season.

I think it is a mistake to conflate "lots of goals allowed" to the quality of your defensemen. Defensemen are really more like mid-fielders in soccer than their name implies. Although they are, in fact, the last line of defense; many goals against at even strength occur when forwards are every bit as involved in the defensive scheme.

Defensemen are as important to offense as they are to defense, just like centers are (and to a lesser extent wingers). This is especially true in this low-scoring era where opportunities to score are limited.

Not entirely apropos to your main thrust, but an important distinction (in my view) nonetheless.

 

[Darth Milbury]

That wasn't even directed at you, it was a general statement about how some people value the size of a defenseman over what he actually does on the ice. I don't know if you're one of those people and I honestly don't care.

I apologize then for being defensive, but my point still stands.

I was on this board when Mark Streit, who is not a big player, was basically our number one. We didn't have arguments here about whether he was a true number one because, in his prime, he most certainly was. Nobody cared that he wasn't 6'3".

Leddy, big or small, is simply not at that level as a player. He is solid, but unexceptional defensively, nonphysical, and doesn't dominate offensively. I think a very good player is being "spun" as a star by some of you and that was my point.

In any case, I didn't mean to attack you personal and apologize for coming off in that manner.

Oh, and btw, I don't think size is really the issue for Leddy. I think size is the issue for the team as a whole, but Leddy didn't really struggle in that regard.

 

[Darth Milbury]

I think it is a mistake to conflate "lots of goals allowed" to the quality of your defensemen. Defensemen are really more like mid-fielders in soccer than their name implies. Although they are, in fact, the last line of defense; many goals against at even strength occur when forwards are every bit as involved in the defensive scheme.

Defensemen are as important to offense as they are to defense, just like centers are (and to a lesser extent wingers). This is especially true in this low-scoring era where opportunities to score are limited.

Not entirely apropos to your main thrust, but an important distinction (in my view) nonetheless.

I understand your point and, of course, it make sense. But, I also think that we did have a crappy overall team defense and our actual defensemen (including Leddy) should shoulder some of the blame.

 

[Sorge Georos]

You guys are acting like some of the fanboys on the main site who want to spin every above average guy on their team to be a star.

Equating different opinions to homerism? Who's opinion is king again?

Believing that Leddy is our best defenseman is no more "fanboy" than you believing that Boychuk/Hamonic is our best defenseman.

Once again, what little evidence I was able to provide was casually dismissed by you without any sort of "systematic thought." Why, in the context that these statistics are provided, are they misleading?

 

[BroadwayJay*]

I understand your point and, of course, it make sense. But, I also think that we did have a crappy overall team defense and our actual defensemen (including Leddy) should shoulder some of the blame.

Like I said, it wasn't entirely apropos.

Mostly just wanted to say thrust.

Thrust.

 

[BroadwayJay*]

Another important, and interesting, development:

When you conduct a google images search on "thrust" it mostly reveals photographs of airplanes and rockets; and almost nothing on your mothers.

 

[Darth Milbury]

Equating different opinions to homerism? Who's opinion is king again?

Believing that Leddy is our best defenseman is no more "fanboy" than you believing that Boychuk/Hamonic is our best defenseman.?

I think a pretty good argument could be made that Leddy is our best defender, and I really have no problem with that. I don't agree, but I never claimed to have the the final word and I respect that others believe that. Recall that, when we had the poll on the topic, about half the posters here agreed with you.


I do have a problem with a guy like you who is dismissive and attacking when somebody doesn't buy your own personal take, but that's another issue. I thought your aggressive attitude was, quite frankly, a bit misplaced.


And, I also do think it homerism and when somebody tries to elevate a very good (but not star quality) player from their favorite team to an elite level, and then goes after others who don't buy their one-sided views.

Once again, what little evidence I was able to provide was casually dismissed by you without any sort of "systematic thought." Why, in the context that these statistics are provided, are they misleading?

In fact, you have ZERO evidence. The evidence you cited was a blog describing advanced stats that I don't believe you understand at all, and then your own "eyeballs." That's not evidence, that's opinion and spin.

Nobody here has real evidence. We watch the game, we look at numbers, and we make up our minds. So, crowing about how you personally have "evidence" but everybody who does agree with you is "unsubstantiated" is silly.

You keep screaming about evidence and when I asked you for your evidence, you cite your "eyeballs."

There basically isn't a single insightful comment in any of your posts. There is no real analysis of the player's strengths and weaknesses, no comments that aren't peeled directly from a blog, and no hint of objectivity whatsoever. You arguments were unconvincing. That's not an attack on you personally, I just don't think you've contributed much of anything to this particular topic.

 

[blinkman360]

I think we're stuck somewhere in between Darth being a self hating Isles fan and others writing Leddy in for the 2016 Norris.

He's probably somewhere in between. Not elite - not yet - but top pairing for sure. I don't think the two are mutually exclusive.

Either way, this is all moot, since by this time next year, our best D will obviously be....

CAL DE HAAN BAY BAY

 

[Lame Lambert]

I think we're stuck somewhere in between Darth being a self hating Isles fan and others writing Leddy in for the 2016 Norris.

He's probably somewhere in between. Not elite - not yet - but top pairing for sure. I don't think the two are mutually exclusive.

Either way, this is all moot, since by this time next year, our best D will obviously be....

CAL DE HAAN BAY BAY

You misspelled Brian Strait

 

[blinkman360]

You misspelled Brian Strait

 

[Lame Lambert]

 

[blinkman360]

Best picture I've ever seen.

 

[Lame Lambert]

Best picture I've ever seen.

From now on whenever Brian Strait ****s up I'm just going to post that picture in the GDT.

 

[DVon Du Nord]

You misspelled Brian Strait

Definitely lol'd at this. I'm a big DeHaan fan myself though and hope he can get back to form and beyond.

As for Leddy, he might be out smartest defenseman with the puck and very defensively capable. A great two way defenseman, and my excitement when we signed him has only increased as the season went along. I have high expectations for both Leddy and DeHaan this year.