Thoughts on Keith Pelley - President and CEO MLSE

[Ports]

Shanahan was not gifted Matthews, the brain trust intentionally timed the tear down in 2015 and 2016 to put the team in the position to win the lottery for McDavid and then Matthews.

That part of the Shanaplan is what actually worked according to plan and where the promises of elite results even came from.

Like tearing apart a team and tanking is difficult to do ? If that’s considered a great accomplishment it says a lot for how low the expectations are from some in this fan base.

 

[Ports]

Every year the Leafs underachieve, all I want to do is demolish everything in anger and start over with an expansion team, new faces, no baggage. No history.

I think wanting to fire Shanahan is equivalent to that blow it all up desire but if you’re honest, I can’t think of what needs to occur at the hockey ops level that requires a new CEO. Better RHD’s? A new coach? Remove one of the Big 4?

Every organization’s philosophy and high expectations start at the top. He hired Dubas and let him build a soft, unbalanced team that was never built to win in the playoffs. He was convinced that Dubas had gamed the NHL and five players taking 60% of the cap could carry the team to the promised land. Dubas never played in the NHL and had never been a GM in the league but at least Shanahan had won cups as a player and he ignored a lot of things that he knew it took to win a cup by continuing to stubbornly stick to their core group and team building philosophy. The man at the top has the ultimate responsibility for the team’s underachieving play when it counts most. It’s not like he’s a bean counter sitting in the back office. He’s a hockey guy who should have known better.

 

[darrylsittler27]

Like tearing apart a team and tanking is difficult to do ? If that’s considered a great accomplishment it says a lot for how low the expectations are from some in this fan base.

They traded Kessel for peanuts. You can't plan a lottery.Pelly is here to clean house if this team folds again.

 

[ACC1224]

Like tearing apart a team and tanking is difficult to do ? If that’s considered a great accomplishment it says a lot for how low the expectations are from some in this fan base.

Any time you achieve a goal it's an accomplishment, it doesn't mean the fans have low expectation.

 

[Torontonian]

Like tearing apart a team and tanking is difficult to do ? If that’s considered a great accomplishment it says a lot for how low the expectations are from some in this fan base.

You go into MLSE office and tell them we are going to intentionally suck, and it's probably going to cost us some profit.

It may not be hard to do from a hockey perspective, but from a business standpoint it would be tough.

 

[CDN24]

Interestingly, I believe it's actually exceedingly rare for a front office guy (at least at the GM level) to have multiple cups on different teams, at least as far as the salary cap era goes. I can't think of a single one off the top of my head whose done it on different teams.

Of course that doesn't mean it can never happen, but a curious finding nonetheless

Rutherford is the only one to win as GM on multiple teams. (i think)

One with Carolina (2006) plus another finals appearance (2002) plus the 2 cups with Pittsburgh

 

[The Podium]

Wasn’t he the guy responsible for the Roger’s/NHL TV deal….

With European ties through the PGA European Tour, I wonder if he expands MLSE globally similar to the Fenway Group

 

[darrylsittler27]

It's a gun at Shanahan's head. If we flounder in the playoffs a new king pin will be brought in because in Tor we can't fire the players.

 

[AcerComputer]

It's a gun at Shanahan's head. If we flounder in the playoffs a new king pin will be brought in because in Tor we can't fire the players.

We can and we will!

 

[Ports]

You go into MLSE office and tell them we are going to intentionally suck, and it's probably going to cost us some profit.

It may not be hard to do from a hockey perspective, but from a business standpoint it would be tough.

Shanahan would have told that was necessary to Leiweke when he hired him and he would have full board approval. Remember Babcock saying “There will be pain”. MLSE makes money no matter how well the team does. A tear down / rebuild makes them a lot more in the long run.

 

[Ports]

Any time you achieve a goal it's an accomplishment, it doesn't mean the fans have low expectation.

Anybody can tear a team down. All they had to do was trade a few players and put others on LTIR. The goal is to win a cup not to see how bad you can play.

 

[Ports]

They traded Kessel for peanuts. You can't plan a lottery.Pelly is here to clean house if this team folds again.

If they lose in the first round changes are definitely needed but not so easy to do. Who would they trade ? Not re-sign Marner? Their top guys all have full NMC and they have quite a few UFAs who can just walk anyway.

 

[Martin Skoula]

You go into MLSE office and tell them we are going to intentionally suck, and it's probably going to cost us some profit.

It may not be hard to do from a hockey perspective, but from a business standpoint it would be tough.

They lose profit by finishing last instead of finishing 8th last? Not sucking wasn’t an option, it’s not like he needed permission to tear down a competitive playoff team.

 

[Menzinger]

They lose profit by finishing last instead of finishing 8th last? Not sucking wasn’t an option, it’s not like he needed permission to tear down a competitive playoff team.

Though it's worth acknowledging that multiple incarnations of Leafs ownership have explicitly forbid management from doing just that.

It was historically unprecedented that Shanny got permission to tank and do things through the draft for a few years. Personally I have severe doubts that any future GM will be allowed to do something similar, at least not for many, many years to come

I've got mixed feelings towards Shanny at present, but I do feel some folks tend to gloss over how complicated front office dynamics can be with this franchise

 

[ACC1224]

Anybody can tear a team down. All they had to do was trade a few players and put others on LTIR. The goal is to win a cup not to see how bad you can play.

Many teams try when phenoms are available, only one succeeds.
They weren’t going to win the cup with the team they had. They have a much better chance with Matthews and Marner than Bozak and JVR.

 

[Dale Gribble]

Always had a soft spot for Pelley since his Argo Pres days, but I do wonder...

With someone like Pelley coming in who has worked in sports for a long time, do Shanahan and Ujiri still report to the Board directly or will that change ?

 

[Martin Skoula]

Though it's worth acknowledging that multiple incarnations of Leafs ownership have explicitly forbid management from doing just that.

It was historically unprecedented that Shanny got permission to tank and do things through the draft for a few years. Personally I have severe doubts that any future GM will be allowed to do something similar, at least not for many, many years to come

I've got mixed feelings towards Shanny at present, but I do feel some folks tend to gloss over how complicated front office dynamics can be with this franchise

What exactly did Shanny need permission on though? They traded away Kessel with retention, otherwise they kept JVR, Bozak, Parenteau, Komarov, Gardiner, etc. If you wanted a full rebuild tear down, we left multiple 1sts of value on the roster for some reason. Even if we keep Kessel that’s a bottom-10 team regardless, one major injury could have executed the same “masterful tank” that appears to be the crown jewel of Shanny’s body of work over a decade.

What would look different if Shanny didn’t get this mythical permission to tank? The team was capped out with no elite prospects coming in in 2014 and no real trade assets stockpiled. Even if he put together the best team he possibly could with what was available they’d still be picking top-10 and inadvertently “building through the draft” unless he went full Burke again.

 

[Menzinger]

What exactly did Shanny need permission on though? They traded away Kessel with retention, otherwise they kept JVR, Bozak, Parenteau, Komarov, Gardiner, etc. If you wanted a full rebuild tear down, we left multiple 1sts of value on the roster for some reason. Even if we keep Kessel that’s a bottom-10 team regardless, one major injury could have executed the same “masterful tank” that appears to be the crown jewel of Shanny’s body of work over a decade.

Trading away Kessel and dion (the two faces of the franchise, each signed long term) and then explicitly attempting to finish as low as possible in the standings by doing stuff like playing Marlies a bunch and refusing to go big on free agents during 2015 offseason or make any trades to improve on ice play.

Prior to 2014 every Leafs GM was expected to be as competitive as possible (they just happens to be explicitly bad at it lol).

I think the Shanaplan opened itself up for legit criticisms (is not trading Bozak/JVR ect). But it was still groundbreaking for the Leafs in its overall intent

 

[Martin Skoula]

Trading away Kessel and dion (the two faces of the franchise, each signed long term) and then explicitly attempting to finish as low as possible in the standings by doing stuff like playing Marlies a bunch and refusing to go big on free agents during 2015 offseason or make any trades to improve on ice play.

Prior to 2014 every Leafs GM was expected to be as competitive as possible (they just happens to be explicitly bad at it lol).

I think the Shanaplan opened itself up for legit criticisms (is not trading Bozak/JVR ect). But it was still groundbreaking for the Leafs in its overall intent

I’m just not seeing how telling MLSE “the team sucks and has no future, I’m going to save you 15 mil in payroll and get some picks back” is groundbreaking. We had a lame duck GM and coach, no 1C, no 1D, and no cap space or prospects to fix either of those things. I refuse to believe anyone at MLSE looked at that situation and demanded a cup run that Shanahan had to talk them out of.

Now if he convinced the board on a full tear down Arizona style rebuild where they sell off everything and stack 9 top 90 picks every draft for 2-3 years, sure that would be beyond expectations for what MLSE would tolerate. The 14 and 15 drafts weren’t tanks, the team just sucked. The 16 draft was the product of a bad team and maybe 10% active effort in terms of playing Sparks and a few other minor decisions. Don’t think it would matter if he signed Clarkson 2.0 to convince MLSE they’re trying their darnedest to win.

 

[Menzinger]

I’m just not seeing how telling MLSE “the team sucks and has no future, I’m going to save you 15 mil in payroll and get some picks back” is groundbreaking. We had a lame duck GM and coach, no 1C, no 1D, and no cap space or prospects to fix either of those things. I refuse to believe anyone at MLSE looked at that situation and demanded a cup run that Shanahan had to talk them out of.

Now if he convinced the board on a full tear down Arizona style rebuild where they sell off everything and stack 9 top 90 picks every draft for 2-3 years, sure that would be beyond expectations for what MLSE would tolerate. The 14 and 15 drafts weren’t tanks, the team just sucked. The 16 draft was the product of a bad team and maybe 10% active effort in terms of playing Sparks and a few other minor decisions. Don’t think it would matter if he signed Clarkson 2.0 to convince MLSE they’re trying their darnedest to win.

Because we know that prior GMs such as JFJ and Burke/Noni's were told by ownership that rebuilding wasn't an option and that they were expected to improve the team by any means necessary. All three of those GMs had lousy prospect pools, no 1C or 1D but still spent tons of money in free agency, and traded multiple picks and prospects for "win now" players. The Leafs under Shanny did not follow that path until AFTER Matthews was drafted

I'd disagree with you're assessment about 2015/2016 not being tank jobs. They were as explicit attempt to tanking as you can get. Zero effort was put into a acquiring win now in players, ,and included taking a clearly not ready for the NHL at the time goalie in Sparks multiple starts down the final stretch of the season to ensure the highest chance at the draft lottery. I'd agree that 2014 wasn't a tank job but things clearly shifted by the draft of that year towards that mindset.

Things later got accelerated by the fact that Matthews was able to enter the league as a legit 1C in his D + 1 which I think nixed plans to keep selling assets.

 

[capfit9]

Shanny will now be reporting to Pelley and not directly to the board.


https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/articl...eith-pelley-will-have-hands-full-in-new-role/

 

[ANDI P IS CUTE]

did he start yet?

 

[capfit9]

did he start yet?

Believe officially started on the 2nd

 

[fancy lad]

Good.

Some kind any kind of accountability is needed in this set up.
I'm not sure if this is going to translate to that, but by all means: do things differently than they've been done since Shanahan has been the guy.

 

[AllHeartNoSkill]

Good.

Some kind any kind of accountability is needed in this set up.
I'm not sure if this is going to translate to that, but by all means: do things differently than they've been done since Shanahan has been the guy.

This is where my head is at. It’s beginning to feel like the Leafs being not good enough is good enough. If they ARE content with what the Leafs are right now, then at least have the guts to tell the fans.