Value of: This package for a top pairing D to the Leafs

[Habs Halifax]

You’re right. They are hardly traded. Maybe part of that is because other teams aren’t willing to give up the assets that the team would want.

Flawed. It's both the team don't want to trade them for grade B darts and the team looking for them prefer to keep their top young assets. Look at it from multiple angles, not just one.

 

[CatchyTune]

Muzzin is another. But not a rental. So I repeat, name me above average top 4D traded as rentals? That's my point. You are comparing Petry to other normal guys moved at the deadline but we really don't have much past comparables to measure from. There is a reason why guys like Petry are rarely traded. Teams keep them and if they let them go, they are either not part of the future plans, are in decline, or are asking for a contract the team don't like. Habs are not there with Petry and we likely extend him for 3 or 4 years. I'm not worried about Petry from 33-35/36

Why is this exclusive to rentals? I named Muzzin who is a comparable who also had a year left, which adds value. If anything just take off one of the prospects and look at that as a realistic package. A 1st and prospect. Like any other rental.

 

[Dache]

Flawed. It's both the team don't want to trade them for grade B darts and the team looking for them prefer to keep their top young assets. Look at it from multiple angles, not just one.

I am looking at it from multiple angles. That’s why I’m disagreeing that there would be a lineup. You’re suggesting that because Petry would be an upgrade to a lot of teams that they’d all want him, when in reality that’s not the case

 

[CatchyTune]

moving a 1st and a 2nd plus Robertson and then Dermott and Liljegren that combination is a non starter

the first consideration has to be the cap, and with that in mind


Nylander + Dermott(RFA) + Kerfoot + Bracco(RFA) + Johnsson + Carolina 6th 2020

Dumba +Ericsson Ek + Soucy + Dumont + Minny 2nd 2021

Not enough moving parts. Throw in Marincin and Greenway

 

[Habs Halifax]

Why is this exclusive to rentals? I named Muzzin who is a comparable who also had a year left, which adds value. If anything just take off one of the prospects and look at that as a realistic package. A 1st and prospect. Like any other rental.

OK, what about this... Players for one full season and then UFA. Pretty sure Patch was a sign/trade deal though. Muzzin is only one example so it don't work that way to justify value. Value varies by trade and circumstance. You want to use Muzzin for a compatible only but what about if I flip it on you and use Lucic or Patch for one full season trade value instead?

- Lucic
for
- 2015 13th OA pick
- Martin Jones
- Colin Miller

- Patch
for
- Tatar
- Suzuki
- 2nd

You got any other trades we can remember where it's one full season then UFA? We can't seem to find a good one as a rental at a deadline.

 

[therealkoho]

Not enough moving parts. Throw in Marincin and Greenway

all that was to get that partner for Rielly and a bigger 3rd line centre think Kap - EricssonEk - Engvall as the 3rd line and cap money

Nylander will be missed but the Leafs come out ahead here as far as the cap goes by about 6m

 

[Habs Halifax]

I am looking at it from multiple angles. That’s why I’m disagreeing that there would be a lineup. You’re suggesting that because Petry would be an upgrade to a lot of teams that they’d all want him, when in reality that’s not the case

Petry would be only be traded if we get a Patch or Lucic return. There you go, it's our prerogative to use a previous example in trade comparisons. Don't like it? That's not our problem. Above average top 4 RD on value contracts are harder to acquire than LD. You can fight that logic all you want.

Finding teams that would pay the price has a lot to do with circumstance. Neither you or I can predict that as fans

 

[KaprizovEntitlelist]

moving a 1st and a 2nd plus Robertson and then Dermott and Liljegren that combination is a non starter

the first consideration has to be the cap, and with that in mind


Nylander + Dermott(RFA) + Kerfoot + Bracco(RFA) + Johnsson + Carolina 6th 2020

Dumba +Ericsson Ek + Soucy + Dumont + Minny 2nd 2021

Leafs fans are delusional ir just funny. Minnesota says hell no with laughter.

Wild dont need another winger in Nylander much less a joke of bracco & Andrea's Johnson.

To think wild trade Dumba, el,, such & 2nd for those other junks is funny

 

[CatchyTune]

OK, what about this... Players for one full season and then UFA. Pretty sure Patch was a sign/trade deal though. Muzzin is only one example so it don't work that way to justify value. Value varies by trade and circumstance. You want to use Muzzin for a compatible only but what about if I flip it on you and use Lucic or Patch for one full season trade value instead?

- Lucic
for
- 2015 13th OA pick
- Martin Jones
- Colin Miller

- Patch
for
- Tatar
- Suzuki
- 2nd

You got any other trades we can remember where it's one full season then UFA? We can't seem to find a good one as a rental at a deadline.

Lucic is actually a good one, although I dont think either Jones or Miller were A prospects.

Not 100% sure if Pacioretty was a sign/trade but the value suggests so. Suzuki was an A prospect, although at the time I doubt Tatar was in there for much value. Detroit traded him for an unwarranted haul and he sucked for Vegas. But not a bad example.

The McDonagh deal could be somewhat of a comparable. I dont remember if he was a sign and trade or not. I still think it would look like the Muzzin deal, maybe minus 1 prospect.

 

[CatchyTune]

all that was to get that partner for Rielly and a bigger 3rd line centre think Kap - EricssonEk - Engvall as the 3rd line and cap money

Nylander will be missed but the Leafs come out ahead here as far as the cap goes by about 6m

I was joking. No chance I move Nylander for Dumba

 

[Habs Halifax]

Lucic is actually a good one, although I dont think either Jones or Miller were A prospects.

Not 100% sure if Pacioretty was a sign/trade but the value suggests so. Suzuki was an A prospect, although at the time I doubt Tatar was in there for much value. Detroit traded him for an unwarranted haul and he sucked for Vegas. But not a bad example.

The McDonagh deal could be somewhat of a comparable. I dont remember if he was a sign and trade or not. I still think it would look like the Muzzin deal, maybe minus 1 prospect.

Jones was flipped for the 30th pick shortly after. That's pretty close to A prospect. Regardless, the 13th pick+? I don't expect that for Petry. And remember, I said as a rental... A prospect and 2nd or 1st and B prospect. I'm not being unreasonable

McDonagh was not a sign trade. More like Muzzin. I would have Petry's value for 1.25 seasons in between them. However, at this point, it's Petry for one full year. It's just hard to nail down cause players like this are rarely traded

 

[CatchyTune]

Leafs fans are delusional ir just funny. Minnesota says hell no with laughter.

Wild dont need another winger in Nylander much less a joke of bracco & Andrea's Johnson.

To think wild trade Dumba, el,, such & 2nd for those other junks is funny

Glad you shot that down because there is 0 chance we move Nylander for Matt Dumba. 0.

Also stop it with the "Andrea's Johnson" its too hilarious.

 

[Fatass]

Leafs fans are delusional ir just funny. Minnesota says hell no with laughter.

Wild dont need another winger in Nylander much less a joke of bracco & Andrea's Johnson.

To think wild trade Dumba, el,, such & 2nd for those other junks is funny

I’m not a huge Dumba fan, but I appreciate he does exhibit hard to play against skill, and can also eat hard (and big) minutes. If the Wild trade Dumba for a forward it should be for hard skill, and not soft skill. The Wild GM is too smart to bring in soft skill, that eats huge cap dollars, especially at the cost of Dumba.

 

[KaprizovEntitlelist]

I was joking. No chance I move Nylander for Dumba

Minnesota doesn't have room for Nylander either, another winger.

But to think Minnesota would add Ek, soucy, 2nd round pick for trash bracco, or Andreas johnsson is so funny. Minnesota isn't trading Ek for kerfoot. Yeah Minnesota laugh

 

[CatchyTune]

Jones was flipped for the 30th pick shortly after. That's pretty close to A prospect. Regardless, the 13th pick+? I don't expect that for Petry. And remember, I said as a rental... A prospect and 2nd or 1st and B prospect. I'm not being unreasonable

Not unreasonable at all with the 1st and B prospect. I just dont see a team giving up an A prospect. Depends on what you classify as one. Like an Erik Brannstrom, you only see guys like that move in a Mark Stone sign&trade type deal. I think an already developing top prospect is much more valuable than a late 1st. Thats why you havent seen guys like Liljegren move from our side although we've moved multiple 1sts.

 

[KaprizovEntitlelist]

Glad you shot that down because there is 0 chance we move Nylander for Matt Dumba. 0.

Also stop it with the "Andrea's Johnson" its too hilarious.

Nope, because only leafs fans believe Andreas johnsson has value. Or that wild would trade a young defensive stud in Ek for kerfoot. Bracco is a joke

 

[CatchyTune]

Minnesota doesn't have room for Nylander either, another winger.

But to think Minnesota would add Ek, soucy, 2nd round pick for trash bracco, or Andreas johnsson is so funny. Minnesota isn't trading Ek for kerfoot. Yeah Minnesota laugh

The deal as a whole is terrible for toronto. Although I stopped listening at Nylander.

Nope, because only leafs fans believe Andreas johnsson has value. Or that wild would trade a young defensive stud in Ek for kerfoot. Bracco is a joke

Point out where I mentioned Johnsson. Please. He is the 4th most valuable piece in that deal. Get over it. If you think the problem in that deal is with Johnsson and Bracco you have a problem. Its William Nylander being moved for Matt Dumba.

 

[KaprizovEntitlelist]

The deal as a whole is terrible for toronto. Although I stopped listening at Nylander.



Point out where I mentioned Johnsson. Please. He is the 4th most valuable piece in that deal. Get over it. If you think the problem in that deal is with Johnsson and Bracco you have a problem. Its William Nylander being moved for Matt Dumba.

Nope. It thinking wild need anymore wingers much less trading Ek, Soucy, 2nd for Johnson, & bracco.

Never said you did But another leafs fan did.

 

[CatchyTune]

Nope. It thinking wild need anymore wingers much less trading Ek, Soucy, 2nd for Johnson, & bracco.

Never said you did But another leafs fan did.

He never suggested he was valuable. He is behind Nylander Dermott and Kerfoot. The whole deal was a mess and too many moving parts. Chop off the fat and you get Nylander for Dumba, which we decline. Glad thats cleared up!

 

[Habs Halifax]

Not unreasonable at all with the 1st and B prospect. I just dont see a team giving up an A prospect. Depends on what you classify as one. Like an Erik Brannstrom, you only see guys like that move in a Mark Stone sign&trade type deal. I think an already developing top prospect is much more valuable than a late 1st. Thats why you havent seen guys like Liljegren move from our side although we've moved multiple 1sts.

A prospects can vary. You can have A+ or B+ which is fringe A.

- Suzuki was not a A+ when traded. More like a A- or B+. Suzuki rose in stock after the trade
- Brannstrom was a A+ when traded.
- N Foote was just traded by the Lightning. I would have him as a solid A with that shot he has.
- I don't have Liljegren as a A. I have him as a B+. I know Leafs fans are going to get offended by that but I always like Sandin better. Liljegren could change my mind but right now today, I would have him as a B+. In each of his AHL seasons so far, he has one of the worse +/- on the Marlies. Marlies have had a good offensive team in recent seasons (likely top 5). So this helps Liljegren IMO.

 

[CatchyTune]

A prospects can vary. You can have A+ or B+ which is fringe A.

- Suzuki was not a A+ when traded. More like a A- or B+. Suzuki rose in stock after the trade
- Brannstrom was a A+ when traded.
- N Foote was just traded by the Lightning. I would have him as a solid A with that shot he has.
- I don't have Liljegren as a A. I have him as a B+. I know Leafs fans are going to get offended by that but I always like Sandin better. Liljegren could change my mind but right now today, I would have him as a B+. In each of his AHL seasons so far, he has one of the worse +/- on the Marlies. Marlies have had a good offensive team in recent seasons (likely top 5). So this helps Liljegren IMO.

I dont see how Foote can be a A while Liljegren is a B+. Regardless of your view on Sandin. Can Suzuki not be an A prospect if I like Kotkaniemi more?

Liljegren, a defenceman who was very good in the AHL in years where most prospects arent eligible for the league at their age, who also had NHL experience at 20, is not a tier lower than a 19 year old winger 6 points above PPG in his D+1 in the WHL. If you're using +/- to judge a teenage defenceman in the AHL I dont know what to tell you.

Either way, whatever we label prospects as is semantics. Brannstrom was my example as an A

 

[Habs Halifax]

I dont see how Foote can be a A while Liljegren is a B+. Regardless of your view on Sandin. Can Suzuki not be an A prospect if I like Kotkaniemi more?

Liljegren, a defenceman who was very good in the AHL in years where most prospects arent eligible for the league at their age, who also had NHL experience at 20, is not a tier lower than a 19 year old winger 6 points above PPG in his D+1 in the WHL. If you're using +/- to judge a teenage defenceman in the AHL I dont know what to tell you.

Either way, whatever we label prospects as is semantics. Brannstrom was my example as an A

Cause Foote did very well at the WJC and he has that NHL shot. Liljegren was hurt when he was suppose to play WJC at 19 so all we have to look at is 38 SHL games, 127 AHL games, and 11 NHL games where he has 1 pt.

Sandin is grade A. Liljegren is not a grade A. He has work to do.

 

[CatchyTune]

Cause Foote did very well at the WJC and he has that NHL shot. Liljegren was hurt when he was suppose to play WJC at 19 so all we have to look at is 38 SHL games, 127 AHL games, and 11 NHL games where he has 1 pt.

Sandin is grade A. Liljegren is not a grade A. He has work to do.

The fact he has 38 SHL games, 127 AHL games and 11 NHL games while being a fresh 21 years old should say enough.

So far you've used AHL +/- and NHL points to judge a 20 year old defenceman. And a blanket statement like Footes shot as his argument.

 

[Space Coyote]

moving a 1st and a 2nd plus Robertson and then Dermott and Liljegren that combination is a non starter

the first consideration has to be the cap, and with that in mind


Nylander + Dermott(RFA) + Kerfoot + Bracco(RFA) + Johnsson + Carolina 6th 2020

Dumba +Ericsson Ek + Soucy + Dumont + Minny 2nd 2021

Dumba has to prove himself again before he can fetch a player like Nylander. Toronto had to go through the same with Nylander last season when his value was at a all time low with kinda the season had. As of right now you wouldn't find many teams interested in Dumba unless its for prospects and picks.

 

[Menzinger]

Dumba also isnt what the Leafs are looking for. They dont need another offensive driver on the backend.

They need a stable two way guy who can eat up a ton of minutes